Even when leaving out gun homicide, US homicide rate still higher than other advanced nations

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: ScepticScot

Let me quote his wiki source

The legal definition of "intentional homicide" differs among countries.

To continue by cross referencing
dictionary.law.com...

Suicide is a homicide, but in most cases there is no one to prosecute if the suicide is successful. Assisting or attempting suicide can be a crime.

It may not be murder...but it absolutely is homicide. At least it us to the folks who compiled the numbers the op is using.

The wiki article states assisting in a suicide is included in some countries not others. Sucide is recorded separately in crime statistics.

I have never heard anyone claim it's included in US homicide figures (and if it was this would be stated everywhere as an explanation of the differences)

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: ScepticScot

Let me quote his wiki source

The legal definition of "intentional homicide" differs among countries.

To continue by cross referencing
dictionary.law.com...

Suicide is a homicide, but in most cases there is no one to prosecute if the suicide is successful. Assisting or attempting suicide can be a crime.

It may not be murder...but it absolutely is homicide. At least it us to the folks who compiled the numbers the op is using.

As a thought you can demonstrate this is false.

There are more recorded suicides than homicides in the US.

This couldn't be true if sucide was included in homicide stats.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Ive mentioned it for years. Among people i know personally its common knowledge. Hell....they arrest you for trying suicide.

I could point out several other issues with the OP, like trying to extrapolate raw data from report summaries. But i thought knowimg that piece of imfo would help nonAmericans.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Homicide is not murder. Not always.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: ScepticScot

Ive mentioned it for years. Among people i know personally its common knowledge. Hell....they arrest you for trying suicide.

I could point out several other issues with the OP, like trying to extrapolate raw data from report summaries. But i thought knowimg that piece of imfo would help nonAmericans.

It might be common knowledge but it's clearly wrong. See post above.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: ScepticScot

Homicide is not murder. Not always.

Suicide is not included in the US homicide figures in the OP.

a reply to: ScepticScot

I had to come turn on my computer to be able to look at this....it appears you are correct. It looks like the 2014 information does not include suicide.

Im also not surprised by the results of the analysis, honestly. Although i'd expect Spain and Italy to be higher (especially Italy).

After Sandy Hook there was a big push at gun control and I was curious about various stats that were thrown around. When i went digging i found that most numbers were including suicides, which included gun suicides. I also found that murder overall in the northern states looked more like Germany, while murder in the southern states looked more like uruguay. My assumption is that the southern border and its illicit trades are the primary impact on this...but i have no way of really knowing.

originally posted by: DanteGaland
We're NOT that "advanced" anymore.

The GOP is hell-bent on turning America into a third world hellhole, populated by MORONIC neckbeards who "hail corporate".

That's it......the GOP turned our major urban city centers into hellholes. They even managed to get elected as their Government in those cities for decades. The Democrats are blameless in all of this.

The rate of ignorance is a he'll of a lot higher as well

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: ScepticScot

I had to come turn on my computer to be able to look at this....it appears you are correct. It looks like the 2014 information does not include suicide.

Im also not surprised by the results of the analysis, honestly. Although i'd expect Spain and Italy to be higher (especially Italy).

After Sandy Hook there was a big push at gun control and I was curious about various stats that were thrown around. When i went digging i found that most numbers were including suicides, which included gun suicides. I also found that murder overall in the northern states looked more like Germany, while murder in the southern states looked more like uruguay. My assumption is that the southern border and its illicit trades are the primary impact on this...but i have no way of really knowing.

The overall gun death figure is used a lot by gun control advocates for fairly obvious reasons. Both sides will tend to pick the figure that makes there point strongest, the problem bring that this overtime leads to a loss in faith amongst people in any figures they are given as they are so often spun.

I don't think it's a surprise that having easier availability of guns increases the homicide rate. Guns are the most efficient method for individuals to kill other individuals and a lot of crimes that would otherwise not have resulted in a death will when a gun is involved.

That is not to say that other crimes might be reduced by gun ownership. The problem is that so many of the figures given (like using the overall gun deaths figure) are so agenda driven by both sides it pollutes the debate.

a reply to: pavil

In order to buy into the left right narrative you have to basically be totally uneducated

a reply to: ScepticScot

The US government likes to cook the books. Like their crime stats not really considering hispanic as separate from caucasian. So it looks like you have equal racial distribution in the prison population when the opposite is actually true.

The Wiki pages mention that in both cases, politics play a role in how the data is reported. In the US I believe they still include officer shooting as intentional homicide (unless that has changed, too). Which I find odd, honestly. But its why I don't believe Italy's numbers as reported in the OP. There is no way they have the lowest homicide rate in Europe. Their government really gives me less hope. But that may just be my impression of Italy based off of a few times seeing how they operate politically in the news. It may be a skewed viewpoint.

On a side note: in the gun wiki, it points that the source for the data is a single source that is unverified. Although i don't really dispute the numbers for the US as being unreasonable.

Even when leaving out gun homicide, US homicide rate still higher than other advanced nations

I don't care.

Anyone that does is mentally deficient.

Yeah I said it.

Determining self worth by what OTHERS do?

Hell no.

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: pavil

In order to buy into the left right narrative you have to basically be totally uneducated

History has proven that it has been Democrats in charge in the cities where they have decayed. Neither Party cares but it's been the Democrats in power in our big cities. They set the policy there.

originally posted by: neo96
Even when leaving out gun homicide, US homicide rate still higher than other advanced nations

I don't care.

Anyone that does is mentally deficient.

Yeah I said it.

Determining self worth by what OTHERS do?

Hell no.

Yes the mentally deficient ones are those that care about people bring killed....

a reply to: ScepticScot

Yes the mentally deficient ones are those that care about people bring killed....

Well then they should actually bother to read existing laws if they 'cared' so much.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: ScepticScot

Yes the mentally deficient ones are those that care about people bring killed....

Well then they should actually bother to read existing laws if they 'cared' so much.

What has reading existing laws got to do with it? The US has the highest homicide rate of any comparable country. Your existing laws clearly aren't working.

a reply to: ScepticScot

So create more laws YOU KNOW isn't going to work?

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: ScepticScot

So create more laws YOU KNOW isn't going to work?

Which is neither the definition or an Einstein quote. However if your laws aren't working, then not changing them is keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Its less a legal problem than an interpersonal and coping skill problem.

My son believes its a school problem and schools will have to solve it. Hes a teacher for students with behavoiral problems in San Antonio. The bad kids that get kicked out of class. I was a bit surprised by the viewpoint.