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Parkland: What percent of Americans charge the building???

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posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 10:46 PM
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originally posted by: butcherguy
You are correct.
Courts have ruled that law enforcement has no duty to protect the public.

I just wish they would stop using that 'Protect and Serve' motto that they paint on their cars full if guns.


Yeah, but 'Punish and Enslave' just didn't do it for the public confidence.




posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 10:52 PM
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originally posted by: Bramble Iceshimmer

originally posted by: butcherguy
You are correct.
Courts have ruled that law enforcement has no duty to protect the public.

I just wish they would stop using that 'Protect and Serve' motto that they paint on their cars full if guns.


Yeah, but 'Punish and Enslave' just didn't do it for the public confidence.


Nor does outline the body, take pictures, and investigate the crime. Which is in actuality 100% truth.



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 11:28 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I'm there, too. I've gone into situations to help. Not with gunfire involved, but flames once, and liquid ammonia another (not the brightest thing I've ever done, as it was pointless, the guy was dead almost instantly.) time.

I'd probably try to help, in some fashion, if I wasn't armed. But "probably" ain't good enough in the case of the deputy. He resigned, as he should have, instead of being fired, which he would have been.

But until you're in a life or death situation, you simply don't know how you'll react.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 12:01 AM
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I'll go in, but I'm used to people shooting at me.

Yes, it bothers me that the officer didn't go in knowing there were children being killed.

But trauma like makes people freeze sometimes. You're alone, back-up is minutes away, you're definitely outgunned(pistol vs rifle is not ideal), and there are already enough dead to turn the situation into a very real hell. We have no idea what was going through this officer's head, what level of training and experience this officer had, or anything else.

Some people can function in this environment, most people cannot.

Fear can be paralyzing. Courage is fighting through that fear so you can be useful and not just another target.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 12:20 AM
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It has nothing to do with being macho,I believe this world is less cynical than you portray here. I say upwards of 35-40% would go in, sure we would be scared chit less, but if you were raised right you try and help people in these types of situations. Sometimes it ain't about you...for the record I have a daughter who teaches at an elementary school, even before this incident we have talked about what if's. She said I'm staying my job is those kids period, so yea I'd going in. Just because its something you couldn't see yourself doing doesn't mean everybody is that way.

PS.

Pretty sure you aren't a parent,no offense but it changes you, or at least most parents it does. ie you would want somebody to do that for your kid ergo put in that situation you would try and help somebody else's kid.
edit on 23-2-2018 by putnam6 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 12:39 AM
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a reply to: angeldoll
But the rifle does not shoot any more rapid than the pistol, as they are both semi-auto. They fire at the same exact rate, which is, however fast the shooter pulls the trigger. Throw a thirty round magazine on the pistol, and you are on equal footing essentially. Better off actually in close quarters with corners and rooms.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 12:43 AM
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If a police officer "freezes" under pressure , they really dont need to be a police officer.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 01:21 AM
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a reply to: seagull

I can see you and bfft going toward the danger in order to help. Everyone reacts differently. I've stopped in the middle of busy traffic to assist with a motorcycle accident. Not exactly the same as gunfire or fire but medical training kicks in and I don't really think, I just respond to a situation.


As far as this officer is concerned, he froze. Which means he really shouldn't be an officer. He resigned as he should.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 01:24 AM
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Being a coward is not an option.
I have scars to prove it.
If you find yourself "freezing," thaw your ass out real fast soldier!
My life is disposable in a bad situation.
The lives of others is more important.
Humans wouldn't even exist if we were a race of cowards.


CX

posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 01:50 AM
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Good question, and a subject I've seen a lot in the past during my service.

I remember incidents in S. Armagh where lads have been stood dumbstruck for a second and needed a shout to snap them out of it or they'd have stayed frozen to the spot, first contact and all that and despite all the training, it's never quite the same as when a mates lying there, there's screaming and condition going on.

Then there's the factor of your moral compass. Yes I know that probably sounds weird, I mean this lad was killing kids for god's sake, but it's been mentioned in the past that when those in jobs like the forces of the police who are allowed/required to take a life at times, it contrasts so drastically to what we in a civilized country have been brought up to believe, it becomes hard to do. Taking a life is the ultimate crime, one that you spend your life in prison for....the ultimate sin....hell, it's even one of the ten commandments.....how many people take them literally?

As an MP in the army in Germany, I even took the more dangerous option of disarming a young teenage girl with a knife by using practiced restraint techniques who had slashed someone...I could have pulled my handgun out due to danger of life, I could have probably punched her and knocked her spark out.....but I was brought up not to hurt women. That upbringing and moral code was enough for me to not want to be too rough on this young girl.

So I won't judge someone who doesn't run in. Yes I'd like to think we'd all do it, but you never know until the situation arises.

CX.
edit on 23/2/18 by CX because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 02:20 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Well, just reading your posts and looking at your meme, you're the man.

I can only respect those with courage and who act in times of danger.

I'm such a weakling but in times of danger I have a very cool, methodical head.

If I had a gun and knew I had heard shots in the school, and I have been a teacher, you bet I'd be in there with my gun ready.

10%? Maybe. God, I hope not. Glad that guy with the gun was fired-he's the 10%-with a gun no less.

Being a southerner, I know for a fact it'd be closer to 90% who'd rush in with their firearms at the slightest chance of a disturbance.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 03:28 AM
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There is really no way that a passerby would have had a cue to react.
If I were driving past a building full of children being fired at, I would probably not have heard it.
Assuming I did, I would have stopped and try to assess the situation.
Saving lives would have been a priority.
I'm pretty good with a pistol.
Say no more.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 03:45 AM
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Well it just goes to show that even a good guy with a gun isn't always the answer to a bad guy with a gun.
But even is the opposite would have been true and the officer went in it still wouldn't be a recipe for less disaster.
It's not impossible the gunman would become agitated with his presence and kill more than he would have.
Or crossfire situations, or it not being clear to the officer who the perpetrator was putting innocent lives in even more danger.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 04:24 AM
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Even during a combat deployment only 3%-5% of the military actually engages the enemy. Out of the thousands in theater only a few hundred will know the truth about combat. Not to say being on a FOB isn't dangerous, or that support and combat-support roles are not an integral part of fighting a war.

I've seen troops with years of training freeze when the shooting starts and I've seen troops with months in the military keep their cool and operate normally. Maybe it's the instant spike of adrenalin that closeness to death brings (different people handle it differently), or maybe it is something else. I think it has more to do with the "lizard-brain" than any amount of training.

There is a saying "everyone wants to be cowboy, until it time to do cowboy %#$@". Having a job, training for a job, bragging about a job, and accepting the respect from a job are the easy parts. The hard (impossible) part is actually doing what the job requires. This is especially true in dangerous jobs.

I would put the percentage at those that would willingly face an armed gunman (for whatever reason) at an infinitesimal number closer to 2%-4%. Those that SAY they would have run into the building is closer to 85% with the remainder being honest and saying "I don't know what I would have done".

+Two things I would like to correct about the OP (one fact one opinion on my part).
The term is AWOL not awohl. Absent without leave (or After Women or Liquor).


The second thing is the soldiers "breaking" comment. I assume you are referring to PTSD, if so this is a reaction to events not a reaction during an event. I honestly believe that those suffering from actual PTSD have moral injuries not cowardice in any way. "Survivors guilt" and "second guessing after the fact" play havoc on the mind far more than fear of a known assailant.

While from a personal viewpoint I can understand why a person didn't risk their lives for others, I cannot bring myself to forgive them (not that I need to). I have little doubt the day before the shooting this individual walked tall, secure in the knowledge that he was the "baddest mother$^#% in the valley" (or some comparable thought). It changed instantly when it was time to "do cowboy $%#@".



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 04:35 AM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
I know what just about every individual would say if asked what they would do..

Kinda like those who bash combat veterans who crack or go awhol I think the vast majority would piss their pants if faced with real combat..


No one can truely say how they would act if faced with almost certain death..

There are countless examples of police officers who refused to put themselves at risk to attemp to save someone..

INFACT THERE IS NO LEGAL REQUIREMENT THAT A POLICE OFFICER TAKE ANY ACTION TO SAVE YOU...

I’m positive people are screaming for his prosecution..but he did nothing illegal. So that’s laughable. .


Obviously, he doesn’t deserve to guard anything ever again, but still..

So just to avoid all the macho “I would have gone in and put Rambo to shame and save the day!”

I’m not asking what you personally claim you would do..

I’m asking what percentage of Americans would have gone inside the building???


10%???

20% ???

40%???


I personally bet it is around 10%...

I think it takes a special person to forfeit his life for a stranger.. really in this situation it is potentially forfeiting your life JUST FOR THE CHANCE TO SAVE A STRANGER...

Can we blame someone for not being a hero??

Make no mistake he was a victim too..









I'm one of those, if I had a gun I'd be in there, Blazing away.

Without one? No idea what I would do.

What ever it was, I'm sure it wouldn't take a lot of thinking.

Get behind the shooter and tackle him would be 1st thought.

Gotta get aggressive with these guys, mess up their zone.






posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 04:37 AM
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originally posted by: angeldoll
A police officer with a handgun doesn't stand much of a chance against a lunatic with a rapid-fire rifle.



Never watched a movie i guess, eh?

One round to the forehead or orbital socket ends it pretty quick.


edit on 2 23 2018 by burgerbuddy because: (no reason given)

edit on 2 23 2018 by burgerbuddy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 05:07 AM
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a reply to: SaturnFX

Thats the thing. In my mind i know the kids. Its a small town.....my family would be in there.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 05:24 AM
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a reply to: 200Plus

Lets just put it this way, you are a parent your kid is in that that building, being shot at and you are going to sit there? Hell bellz you would have Moms and Dads going in like crazy. Still think you would have a good portion of regular joes go in too. Again the situation isn't storming a building in jihad land, its an american school building, american children being shot on a clear sunny day. Anything less than 25% shows what a self centered chit hole society we have become, or maybe its just how cynical, lopsided AND political these boards have become.

Again not saying they charge the building and save the day, its always nice to think you are in a small minority in some way or special and nobody would face what I'd face. But beyond this hypothetical statistical nonsense you had most of the faculty respond admirably,and at least have 2 teachers and one student, that by all accounts could have likely escaped un harmed but choose to run towards, shield or stay letting others escape. Pretty sure none of them thought they were the baddest mo^&(__ before or during. All I need to know about the security guard was he was armed and didn't respond, who he was the day before was irrelevant. Not going to deride the man either cause you dont know till the # hits the fan how you would respond. Armed I'm pretty damn sure I'm going in.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 05:29 AM
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Exactly.

The police have no duty to protect us, yet they want to take away people's right to protect themselves.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 05:42 AM
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originally posted by: putnam6
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Pretty sure you aren't a parent,no offense but it changes you, or at least most parents it does. ie you would want somebody to do that for your kid ergo put in that situation you would try and help somebody else's kid.


That is SO true! Something clicks in you when you become a parent, at least for most people.

After my son was born, and I realized I would die to protect him, I eventually realized that every kid in my life came under the same protection. Relatives, neighbors, friends, strangers... all kids. Little things or big dangers. I became a momma bear. No one better mess with my cubs, which includes all kids


I wonder if that cop had kids.



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