It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

No, Australia's gun ban didn't reduce violent crime

page: 7
36
<< 4  5  6    8  9 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 05:11 PM
link   

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Kryties


My cousin killed one charging at him with a friggin knife mate. I watched him do it with my own 2 eyes.


I watched Crocodile Dundee, so I know about your knives... But how about 15 or more all charging... That was my question...


As an aside, you do know that Crocodile Dundee isn't the be-all and end-all of all things Australian don't you?

Drop Bears. Now THEY are the menace that's never spoken about.........



(PS I highly recommend watching Wolf Creek if you haven't already, one of the best Aussie horror style films ever made imo).





posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 05:13 PM
link   

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Kryties
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan


No need for anything more than those examples, AR-15's and the like are simply overkill.



Do your pigs charge you if you kill or wound one of them? Ever see 15 of them coming at you at full speed...lol


My cousin killed one charging at him with a friggin knife mate. I watched him do it with my own 2 eyes.


Ive seen video of this kind of stuff. It really is visceral and awe inspiring.

Your cuz is a badass.



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 05:14 PM
link   
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I won't tell him you called him a badass, his head is already big enough lol.



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 05:24 PM
link   

originally posted by: CaptainBeno
a reply to: JBurns

G'day Mate, yeah, I get it.....you're really trying your best to convince me. But your facts don't add up. Plus, you're making yourself look silly.

The facts are, we don't own guns. There are no mass shootings.....guess why, I'll give you a clue. Yeah that's right, because we don't own guns.

Also, for the record, no school shootings either....yeah, you've guessed it, because we don't have guns.

So as an Australian, watching American shootings on an almost monthly scale, what's your counter argument?



It's not that easy when guns have been a part of American culture since day one.

Guns were the tool of choice that gave us our freedom.

Guns are a tool for protection.

Guns are a big part of sporting competitions.

There are a lot of guns on American soil that can not just "go away" at the snap of a finger.

There are 322 million people in the US... Australia has 24 million, big difference, let alone the culture difference and the lack of 2nd Amendment in Australia.



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 05:24 PM
link   
a reply to: Kryties

Well, now you've done it. Destroyed my image of Aussies for all time. Are you ashamed? You should be...


Drop Bear, FTW!



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 05:31 PM
link   

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Kryties

Well, now you've done it. Destroyed my image of Aussies for all time. Are you ashamed? You should be...


Drop Bear, FTW!


Many unsuspecting tourists have been lured to their deaths by marauding Drop Bears working together. One second you're happily walking through the bush admiring the gumtrees, the next second your fighting off a vicious furball intent on making you his dinner.

Look up. Survive!

(A message from the Australian Government. Authorized and spoken by some twat in a suit)




edit on 22/2/2018 by Kryties because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 05:37 PM
link   
a reply to: kyleplatinum

Just thought I would clarify that Aussies can own guns, we just have strict licensing requirements and generally cannot own fully or semi automatics unless for authorized pest control, for the most part we can own bolt actions and shotguns.

Most Aussies in the country/outback have guns for hunting, pests etc but most city people don't as they cannot provide a good reason for owning one (which is one requirement of the licensing).



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 05:44 PM
link   

originally posted by: Kryties
a reply to: Xtrozero

This is an average size wild pig here in Oz...



You guys are freaken heartless killing little piglets...



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 05:53 PM
link   

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Kryties
a reply to: Xtrozero

This is an average size wild pig here in Oz...



You guys are freaken heartless killing little piglets...


We like our bacon, what else can I say?



I'm also not a big fan of the taste of rabbit or kangaroo, way too gamey for my liking.


edit on 22/2/2018 by Kryties because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 07:18 PM
link   
Well of course crime increases when you remove the guns from the law abiding citizens...It becomes a free for all for the bad guys...Who doesn't know that, besides CNN and Democrats???



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 07:19 PM
link   
a reply to: Iscool

Except for the proof that it doesn't, evidenced by my own country Australia.

Damn those pesky facts hey?



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 06:04 AM
link   
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Not a damn thing!

Its a way to be able to arrange statistics, which displays a reduction in shooting deaths, and that is literally all. There is no other benefit to it.

If you look at the overall murder numbers (which are the important ones), and seek to reduce THOSE numbers, that is what we call a hard problem, a difficult problem, a problem that requires actual attention, expensive programs which reduce the rate at which people become psychologically damaged by the state, reduces the number of people with illnesses that make them prone to violence, who are simply walking around, unrecognised as such, and untreated, and provides for the FACT that some people, regardless of whether they have committed crimes or not, are so unstable that being permitted to be around the general public poses a serious risk to the health of both the individual, and the public. It also means that in the direst of circumstances, where a persons illness makes them a clear and present threat to the society they are a part of, provision must be made for their indefinite removal from the general population, to a place of safety, where whatever can be done to heal them, will be done, with the expectation that they eventually can be returned to society without risk.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 06:10 AM
link   

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Kryties
a reply to: Xtrozero

This is an average size wild pig here in Oz...



You guys are freaken heartless killing little piglets...


Get back to us when you're starving to death and then tell us 'oh no not the little pig'. Good fing grief.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 06:35 AM
link   
a reply to: TrueBrit

I worked in mental health back in the 90's. Back then it was like this. It was a weird time where the abusive behaviors of hospital staff in times past was being removed from the clinical environment with pretty strict policing, but the patients were still actually mental patients off the streets and not forensic patients from prisons.

Its good that we removed the clinically mentally ill from the prisons. Its better for all involved, im sure. But at the expense of beds for community needs???

It was all due to budget cuts at the state level. Community services were privatized, so "MHMR" which used to be Texas Health and Human Resources became private companies (privatized mental health community care). Meanwhile, beds made available for inpatient care were reduced so that forensic patients could be placed. Part of it was need, as well. Zyprexa, Seroquel, etc made strong impacts on psychosis, allowing patients that had spent years in and out of institutions to find normalcy. One dude that i used to have to wrestle with a lot due to him believing he was a navy seal and I was a commie ended up graduating from college. That is significant for someone with severe schizophrenia. Problem is...he needs somewhere to go periodically for inpatient treatment. Many like him do. Its not the depressives i worry so much about...private medicine handles them. Its the psychotic folks. The beds aren't really there when they are needed, so decompensated mental patients are left roaming the streets, or are held up in jails, while they wait for clinical accommodations.

Its like we took 2 steps forward, and then 3 steps back.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 07:58 AM
link   

originally posted by: JugHead

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Kryties
a reply to: Xtrozero

This is an average size wild pig here in Oz...



You guys are freaken heartless killing little piglets...


Get back to us when you're starving to death and then tell us 'oh no not the little pig'. Good fing grief.


I'm 99.9% certain that the poster you are referring to was joking mate. It was in reference to the size of the pigs here compared to the ones they hunt over in the US.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 08:01 AM
link   
a reply to: Kryties

When I ran a pub in London an Aussie had me going for years about drop bears....



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 08:09 AM
link   
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

What you are describing in terms of the on the ground situation from the perspective of someone who was working in it, is suggestive. After reading your comment, the one thing that stands out to me, is that the inpatient care reductions, must have had knock on effects in the rest of the chain, between patients expressing symptoms, and actually receiving care of some kind.

Things are supposed to progress, not regress. I know that that terminology may cause some people to get all hot under the collar, but thats just too bad. Its the legitimate grammatical choice in this instance. Progress in this scenario you described, where forensic patients were found places, SHOULD have necessitated a large uptick in spending and infrastructural expansion of mental health facilities, in order that the placement of forensic patients in the facility, would not affect the number of inpatients coming in from other vectors, like self admission, or admission on the recommendation of a psychomedical professional.

This is why I say that there are no popular answers to the mass shooting problem. While I totally disagree with using gun control methodologies to approach the subject, I can also understand the unwillingness of largely dishonest recipients of large donations from private medical and psychomedical companies, to accept a plan which requires those companies to spend more money, rather than necessarily having a bottom line that looks great to the investor. But while I understand that unwillingness, the reality is that the tasks undertaken now by private concerns, MUST be administrated and controlled by people who have no concerns whatsoever about the bottom line. Providing the services that are needed, regardless of the cost of it, is the approach which is required here. Getting people cycled off the street and into a place of safety where their ailments can be accounted for more easily when they need it, is not something that a society can afford to skinflint on. It is not something that a society can afford to be turned into a political football, or a chess piece, or used as a bargaining chip in some other, nearly unrelated matter.

The work needs doing, capacity in secured facilities needs to be expanded, without any arguments, delays, corporate machinations, and crucially, without the time for some disgusting person to figure out a way for them to make, rather than spend money doing it. There is no time for that. These issues raised their heads years ago in America. Deinstitutionalisation as a movement is responsible for a great deal of the current blindspot in the mental health services, with regard to long stay treatment. There seems to be a taboo these days, against saying that a person may need to be placed in long term care, for their own safety and that of others. There should not be. There was an awful lot wrong with some of the old systems in place many years ago, too much abuse, too little actual care, no actual intelligence applied to the process of dealing with people with a variety of mental ailments, and getting them as close to well as possible, too much assumption that some people were beyond help.

But it seems that for reasons of corporate expediency, the bias has been manipulated to flip the other way, meaning that it is now difficult to suggest that long term care, potentially life long care, might be necessary for a given person. But this is, of course, insanity itself. If a person expresses no capacity to discern reality from fantasy or nightmare, and shows also no sign that they might ever come out of it, then with the greatest compassion possible, they cannot be forced to live in regular society, where nothing they do will make sense to anyone else, and nothing anyone else does, will make sense to them either. It also makes no sense for the risk to the patients life, and the lives of citizens, that leaving deeply disturbed people in regular society presents, to be taken when the consequences are so obvious.

People tell me, when I get onto this subject, that I have missed the point, that not all mass shooters are "crazy". I would love for someone to give me an example of a mass shooter, regardless of motive, who was not suffering from a specific and identifiable maladjustment of their neurochemistry, either during the shooting they enacted, or during the planning of that shooting. I will guarantee right now, that NONE of the people who have ever performed a mass shooting, were in a stable grasp of their faculties, no matter whether they did it because they were brainwashed into it by one or another religious cult, or whether they did it because they were affected by fascist ideology, or whether they did it because their mother died, or their wife left them, or because they felt persecuted by people at their school. There is no way to describe a mass shooter, that does not include terms like "of unsound mind" or "the balance of their minds was disturbed". Why? Because shooting up a heap of people, whether its from a clock tower, a fancy hotel suite, or going room to room in a school building, regardless of what justifications one individual might have for their actions, is an activity that only someone who was technically insane would perform.

What you said about taking two steps forward, in removing the possibility of abuse to a large degree (which was one of the major problems of long term care in times gone by) for example, and then three steps back, with regard to reducing availability for inpatients, cannot be over stated. It is vitally important that people learn to connect the dots which mark out the increasing incidents of mass shootings, with the currently pathetic level of capacity that the mental health services have been allowed to get away with providing to the society they are supposed to serve. People need to be writing to their states representatives, their governors, their senators, the White House and the CDC if they think it will get anywhere. They need to let their representatives know, that the people have an eye to this stuff, and will not let it rest.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 08:12 AM
link   

originally posted by: testingtesting
a reply to: Kryties

When I ran a pub in London an Aussie had me going for years about drop bears....


Hehe, it's like a nationally told joke here. Just about every Aussie is in on it. It's hilarious how many tourists fall for it lol.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 02:47 PM
link   

originally posted by: badw0lf

originally posted by: rollanotherone
a reply to: CaptainBeno

Why are you so concerned with US news? Is Straya that boring?


Umm, we're on the same forum. You don't get to tell people what to post, when the posts are not restricted to "Only Americans can reply."

Or is the echo chamber too quiet?

I guess you're trying to pick a fight? I only asked a simple question. The fact you took it immediatly to hostility is very telling. Good day to you sir.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 02:52 PM
link   

originally posted by: CaptainBeno
a reply to: rollanotherone

Nice mate,

The world is watching y'all, not just Australia.

Your looking silly.

Yeah, the world also watches the Kardashians. Your point being?



new topics

top topics



 
36
<< 4  5  6    8  9 >>

log in

join