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No, Australia's gun ban didn't reduce violent crime

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+21 more 
posted on Feb, 21 2018 @ 08:25 PM
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thefederalist.com...

"according to the Australian government’s own statistics, a number of serious crimes peaked in the years after the ban. Manslaughter, sexual assault, kidnapping, armed robbery, and unarmed robbery all saw peaks in the years following the ban, and most remain near or above pre-ban rates. The effects of the 1996 ban on violent crime are, frankly, unimpressive at best."


The study doesn’t conclude that “murders and suicides plummeted” in Australia after the 1996 gun ban, as Vox claims in its headline. Instead, it focuses solely on firearm-related murders and suicides. In that category they found a marked decline (although, interestingly, it still makes up nearly 20 percent of all homicides nearly two decades after most guns were banned by the island nation).

But at the same time Australia was banning guns and experiencing a decline in gun homicides, America was more than doubling how many firearms it manufactured and seeing a nearly identical drop in gun homicides. That throws a bit of a wrench into the idea that Australia’s gun ban must be the reason for its decline in gun crime.

However, what’s more important is the fact that overall suicides and murder have not “plummeted” in the years after the gun ban. Yes, as with the gun-happy United States, the murder rate is down in Australia. It’s dropped 31 percent from a rate of 1.6 per 100,000 people in 1994 to 1.1 per 100,000 in 2012.But it’s the only serious crime that saw a consistent decline post-ban.

In fact, according to the Australian government’s own statistics, a number of serious crimes peaked in the years after the ban. Manslaughter, sexual assault, kidnapping, armed robbery, and unarmed robbery all saw peaks in the years following the ban, and most remain near or above pre-ban rates. The effects of the 1996 ban on violent crime are, frankly, unimpressive at best.


"Australia isn’t much of a model for Australia, let alone for America."


It’s even less impressive when again compared to America’s decrease in violent crime over the same period. According to data from the U.S. Justice Department, violent crime fell nearly 72 percent between 1993 and 2011. Again, this happened as guns were being manufactured and purchased at an ever-increasing rate.

While Australians kill themselves with firearms less often, it seems they don’t actually take their own lives any less often.

The Australian gun ban’s effect on suicide in the country isn’t any better. While Vox repeats the Harvard study’s claim that firearm-related suicides are down 57 percent in the aftermath of the ban, Lifeline Australia reports that overall suicides are at a ten-year high. The Australian suicide prevention organization claims suicide is the leading cause of death for Australians 15 to 44 years old. So, while Australians kill themselves with firearms less often, it seems they don’t actually take their own lives any less often than before the ban.

Whatever you think of the merits of Australia’s gun ban or the practicality of using it as a model for American gun control, it most certainly has not caused suicide or murder rates to plummet. Furthermore, Australia has seen violent crimes peak in the years following its ban while the United States experienced the exact opposite phenomenon.

Australia isn’t much of a model for Australia, let alone for America.


Gun control? Not now, not ever.




posted on Feb, 21 2018 @ 08:33 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

And arson. Many of Australia’s mass killings since the big one have been arsons.


+23 more 
posted on Feb, 21 2018 @ 08:41 PM
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a reply to: JBurns
Is the topic du jour not mass shootings? Were they reduced? It appears so. Let's not confuse big city crime states with slaughtering schoolkids in their classrooms. It's unbecoming.


edit on 21-2-2018 by JohnnyCanuck because: formatting, eh?


+7 more 
posted on Feb, 21 2018 @ 08:42 PM
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I believe they claim zero new school shootings not reduced violent crime.

Have a nice night.


+8 more 
posted on Feb, 21 2018 @ 08:43 PM
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a reply to: JohnnyCanuck


But mass shootings aren't the only factor. Firearms exist to protect the owner against *all* forms of violent crime. Therefore it is violent crime that needs to be examined to get a relevant factor. Not propaganda/dishonest tactics like only look at deaths from shootings.

It is helpful to note, Johnny, that Australia still lists firearms as the tool used in around 20% of their annual murders. Hmm...

Not to mention the fact that violent crime has gone up/not fallen. Doesn't look good, that is for sure.
edit on 2/21/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)


+6 more 
posted on Feb, 21 2018 @ 08:44 PM
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a reply to: Sillyolme


School shootings aren't the only factor.

Again, firearms protect owners from all violent crimes. Many (including myself) would never subject ourselves to the will of violent criminals by permitting any sort of confiscation or Australia type actions.

Remember the old & wise adage: "When you ban guns, only criminals have guns. When you turn the entire gun-owning population into criminals overnight, you may not like the outcome."


+15 more 
posted on Feb, 21 2018 @ 08:46 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck
But mass shootings aren't the only factor. Firearms exist to protect the owner against *all* forms of violent crime. Therefore it is violent crime that needs to be examined to get a relevant factor. Not propaganda/dishonest tactics like only look at deaths from shootings.
It is helpful to note, Johnny, that Australia still lists firearms as the cause for around 20% of their annual murders. Hmm...Not to mention the fact that violent crime has gone up/not fallen. Doesn't look good, that is for sure.

The mass shootings of schoolchildren are the context for these current discussions. Please stop diluting and deflecting. It makes you look like a #ing monster.



posted on Feb, 21 2018 @ 08:46 PM
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a reply to: Sillyolme



In that category they found a marked decline (although, interestingly, it still makes up nearly 20 percent of all homicides nearly two decades after most guns were banned by the island nation).



But at the same time Australia was banning guns and experiencing a decline in gun homicides, America was more than doubling how many firearms it manufactured and seeing a nearly identical drop in gun homicides. That throws a bit of a wrench into the idea that Australia’s gun ban must be the reason for its decline in gun crime.


...?



posted on Feb, 21 2018 @ 08:47 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

Timothy McVeigh once stated that if he were to start all over again, he would have used a sniper rifle instead of a bomb. My point is, even if you ban guns, McVeigh would have find other means of killing people.
edit on 2/21/2018 by starwarsisreal because: (no reason given)


+12 more 
posted on Feb, 21 2018 @ 08:48 PM
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a reply to: JohnnyCanuck


Not diluting or deflecting, and I don't care how it looks. Facts are more relevant than your attempts to exploit knee-jerk emotions.

Fact is, the FULL context needs to be discussed in order to avoid tear-jerkers like yourself pushing through a hasty and frankly unwanted agenda.

As I stated, I think it has been made perfectly clear by the firearms community that illegal and unconstitutional confiscation will never be tolerated.



posted on Feb, 21 2018 @ 08:50 PM
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a reply to: starwarsisreal


Precisely


A psycho determined to commit an act of murder or terrorism laughs at those who make their prey less likely to be armed. Those killers are shaking the hands of gun-controllers everywhere - which is exactly why the controllers have blood stained hands.

Blood from the school teacher or staff member who has to shield students with their bodies, because some arrogant liberal decided them having a firearm would make their latest cause celebre` look bad. Truly a despicable ideology

One Sheriff in Florida is skirting Democrats and their anti-gun hysteria by training and appointing teachers as "special deputies" enabling them to skirt gun free zone requirements. We need more patriots like Sheriff.
edit on 2/21/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2018 @ 08:51 PM
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Don't ban guns, just give EVERYONE mild stun taser or vomit inducing noise makers...

Let everyone have a mental brain fart for the 1st few months and zap everything that gets crossed eyed and then after a bit, you now know everyone has a " oh shat my pants " button, and you got some makings for less people trying to be stupid.

On top of it, let's not mask the real issue, it's that its being publicized, we all know what happens when guns are fired, we don't need to make it such a scene, it BECOMES a " thing " to do, BECAUSE of the coverage...

Then you have the school, police department, and even the parents, failure to communicate, it's there that this could really of been avoided, but banning guns?

Ban cars, people kill more everyday with them and you should be more scared about them driving like you don't exist instead of being shot.



posted on Feb, 21 2018 @ 08:56 PM
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originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck
But mass shootings aren't the only factor. Firearms exist to protect the owner against *all* forms of violent crime. Therefore it is violent crime that needs to be examined to get a relevant factor. Not propaganda/dishonest tactics like only look at deaths from shootings.
It is helpful to note, Johnny, that Australia still lists firearms as the cause for around 20% of their annual murders. Hmm...Not to mention the fact that violent crime has gone up/not fallen. Doesn't look good, that is for sure.

The mass shootings of schoolchildren are the context for these current discussions. Please stop diluting and deflecting. It makes you look like a #ing monster.


How do you feel about vehicles?



posted on Feb, 21 2018 @ 08:56 PM
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originally posted by: Sillyolme
I believe they claim zero new school shootings not reduced violent crime.

Have a nice night.


Should ban cars to prevents 30,000 deaths a year? I mean, we can make that zero too.

No child should have to drown... let's ban swimming pools while we are at it.



posted on Feb, 21 2018 @ 09:00 PM
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originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck
But mass shootings aren't the only factor. Firearms exist to protect the owner against *all* forms of violent crime. Therefore it is violent crime that needs to be examined to get a relevant factor. Not propaganda/dishonest tactics like only look at deaths from shootings.
It is helpful to note, Johnny, that Australia still lists firearms as the cause for around 20% of their annual murders. Hmm...Not to mention the fact that violent crime has gone up/not fallen. Doesn't look good, that is for sure.

The mass shootings of schoolchildren are the context for these current discussions. Please stop diluting and deflecting. It makes you look like a #ing monster.

You didnt read the OP did you ?
Just because a Canadian feels they have to comment on anything US , doesnt mean you should not read first.



posted on Feb, 21 2018 @ 09:14 PM
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originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
a reply to: JBurns
Is the topic du jour not mass shootings? Were they reduced? It appears so. Let's not confuse big city crime states with slaughtering schoolkids in their classrooms. It's unbecoming.



We reduced the number of guns, and gun crime went down.

So lets look at people jumping off bridges or stabbings, that should rectify the numbers.. Bad Australia....

A gun store was robbed here recently (I know, right? A gun store? what do they sell, peacocks?) and over 80 firearms were stolen.

Criminals will be criminals, but at least bob the builder wont get pissed off at nancy the hussy and shoot roger the rogerer and his work mates, for diddling his missus, any time soon...



posted on Feb, 21 2018 @ 09:15 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck


But mass shootings aren't the only factor. Firearms exist to protect the owner against *all* forms of violent crime. Therefore it is violent crime that needs to be examined to get a relevant factor. Not propaganda/dishonest tactics like only look at deaths from shootings.

It is helpful to note, Johnny, that Australia still lists firearms as the tool used in around 20% of their annual murders. Hmm...

Not to mention the fact that violent crime has gone up/not fallen. Doesn't look good, that is for sure.


What we need is more guns.

Because gun crime still exists. We need more guns to protect us from all these guns.



posted on Feb, 21 2018 @ 09:18 PM
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originally posted by: badw0lf

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck


But mass shootings aren't the only factor. Firearms exist to protect the owner against *all* forms of violent crime. Therefore it is violent crime that needs to be examined to get a relevant factor. Not propaganda/dishonest tactics like only look at deaths from shootings.

It is helpful to note, Johnny, that Australia still lists firearms as the tool used in around 20% of their annual murders. Hmm...

Not to mention the fact that violent crime has gone up/not fallen. Doesn't look good, that is for sure.


What we need is more guns.

Because gun crime still exists. We need more guns to protect us from all these guns.






I know right, we need more guns,we need to make it easier for people to kill other people so that less people get killed.



posted on Feb, 21 2018 @ 09:18 PM
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originally posted by: JinMI

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck
But mass shootings aren't the only factor. Firearms exist to protect the owner against *all* forms of violent crime. Therefore it is violent crime that needs to be examined to get a relevant factor. Not propaganda/dishonest tactics like only look at deaths from shootings.
It is helpful to note, Johnny, that Australia still lists firearms as the cause for around 20% of their annual murders. Hmm...Not to mention the fact that violent crime has gone up/not fallen. Doesn't look good, that is for sure.

The mass shootings of schoolchildren are the context for these current discussions. Please stop diluting and deflecting. It makes you look like a #ing monster.


How do you feel about vehicles?


We've had no mass vehicular slaughter in schools either. Or hammer attacks killing 17 kids. Or rake murders. Or pencil offences. We have a lot of bad words though...



posted on Feb, 21 2018 @ 09:19 PM
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originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: badw0lf

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck


But mass shootings aren't the only factor. Firearms exist to protect the owner against *all* forms of violent crime. Therefore it is violent crime that needs to be examined to get a relevant factor. Not propaganda/dishonest tactics like only look at deaths from shootings.

It is helpful to note, Johnny, that Australia still lists firearms as the tool used in around 20% of their annual murders. Hmm...

Not to mention the fact that violent crime has gone up/not fallen. Doesn't look good, that is for sure.


What we need is more guns.

Because gun crime still exists. We need more guns to protect us from all these guns.






I know right, we need more guns,we need to make it easier for people to kill other people so that less people get killed.


And anyone over the age of birth should have the right to own one. Just in case timmy has his pocket money stolen.



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