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Trump suggests arming teachers & staff could prevent school massacres

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posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 11:57 AM
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a reply to: Kryties

Should I start with the revolutionary war??

How about the constitution or John Locke in the second treatise of government.


In his SECOND TREATISE OF GOVERNMENT, Locke identified the basis of a legitimate government. According to Locke, a ruler gains authority through the consent of the governed. The duty of that government is to protect the natural rights of the people, which Locke believed to include LIFE, LIBERTY, AND PROPERTY. If the government should fail to protect these rights, its citizens would have the right to overthrow that government. This idea deeply influenced THOMAS JEFFERSON as he drafted the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE.


So now we are talking about the social contract the us is based off of where the 2nd amendment later comes to play. An amendment that would need to be overturned by a massive majority.

So I already gave you a history of how small guerilla warfare defeats larger armies and since you ignore it you are already lost in this argument.

Again the way it works is guerilla warfare. You are imagining a scenario where people March to a battlefield and fight face to face.

The reality is you hide weapons. You store cashes and create Intel networks aND spies. You attack through asymmetrical means like surprise and leader ship assassination. You create a resistance by not simply giving up.

Again I already proved this works with history.

All you did was hide behind a debunked talking point.




posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 11:59 AM
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originally posted by: luthier
It's a complex issue that isn't really about guns.


Guns are an accessible method of killing. I'm not under some delusion that eliminating guns would eliminate all violence in society, I don't even think it would eliminate all shootings. Given enough time however it would significantly reduce shootings and push people to less lethal and affordable forms of violence like knives. I'm not too worried about IED's because parking lots and streets aren't generally crowded enough to mass casualty events (at least nothing like we saw at Parkland or Vegas). Also from my understanding, ammonium nitrate which is the main component of an IED has been regulated since 2005. So without proper licensing it's hard to get ahold of large quantities of it. Someone could do it (they do it when making meth from Sudafed afterall, which has similar controls) but not everyone would be able to do that.



We have over 350 million in the current circulation that is more than American populatuon. Gun control at best would take decades to take effect.


All the more reason to start now. I bet that if we offered $1000 per gun (or whatever market price on any given model is) in no questions asked buybacks, and banned passing them on in inheritance and estate sales (instead, confiscation with 2x buyback and letting people inherit the money tax free) that we could get 50% of guns off the streets in 10 years. If we started banning everything other than purpose built weapons for hunting and home defense I bet we could push that number higher. It wouldn't be perfect, but it would be a real good start.



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 12:06 PM
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originally posted by: Edumakated
If we agree that the shooters are lunatics, then we also must agree that gun control really isn't the issue. The issue is why are these kids flipping out and what can we do to prevent that from occurring?


I think social media is playing a big part in pushing people to commit crimes. I can't imagine eliminating social media though.

If you really want to sum this issue up I see it as a question of which is more important. Legal free speech that's motivating people to lash out. Or legal weapons that provide a means for people to lash out. I'm convinced that we're going to have to curtail one or the other.



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 12:08 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

So you you seem to use math when it suits your argument but fail to use it when it doesn't.

15 million AR's is 15 billion dollars.

350 million guns is an outrageous number.


ied's in a classroom would do plenty. Even a few simple pipe bombs. This is the point. They are compact mass population areas. Ramming people in line for the bus..etc..

Why doesn't Russia have mass school shooting regularly?

Why is it American youth.

That is the real.question.

Yes having protective orders families can place on guns of the mentally ill is probably a good idea but again there is a different problem than armed guards or gun control to be looking at.
edit on 22-2-2018 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 12:14 PM
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I thought it was some sort of slip of the tongue when I was told that he suggested this.

I have my own views on gun control, but arming teachers and staff just isn't the thing to do. I'm actually amazed he suggested it.
If arming teachers and thier staff isn't the answer, what is?



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 12:18 PM
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a reply to: rhynouk

I would wager, if a law was made that required teachers to have guns, there would be a mass exodus of teachers from the system who simply don't want to have to do that.



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 12:19 PM
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a reply to: rhynouk

A lot better Intel gathering.

Possibly a sub group of the fbi that is only for public schools that work with the sso and teachers.

Probably exploring no lethal weapons and weapon screening tech.

Probably better screening for the regions sso so they are good at threat assessment and possibly take them.off any duty other than bodily harm so they can keep a relationship with students that would help garner better Intel.

Emergency protective orders for families to use when a family member is me tally ill or semmingly very off.

And studying what it is in American culture that makes out children do this and other countries kids not do this.



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 12:20 PM
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No new laws to arm teachers
just deputize them in certain areas where needed
deputize teachers



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 12:21 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell
Are they to carry the gun on them openly?

Conceal it

Sure, so one of the children can get their hands on it…

Are they going to be trained?

Who’s to pay for all of that

How many teachers should be armed, all of them?

One or two of them?

What about the custodians, arm them too?

There’s only one solution to this

Throw out the Republican Party from any real power





Yes, a single party government is a valid representative of the people, Mr. Dictator. A dictatorship will solve everyone's problems, like history has shown. The first order of business is to disarm the population to prevent the from overthrowing you. Then, the purges begin to round up all those that disagree with the government narrative (and being unarmed, nobody can stop this happening).

Do you REALLY think we do not see where you are going with this?

Please, stop with the partisan horse hockey. That solves nothing.



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 12:22 PM
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originally posted by: pavil
In case you didn't know, the military doesn't pay great wages either. Will it cost money, yes. Is that money spent worth it to protect our schools?

Are you saying it costs too much to try and solve this problem?

I know janitors in our local school who did ok and got a pension and insurance ect. He was the janitor at our local school for 26 years.


Pensions are disappearing from the school system. Teachers are seeing declining wages each year. Kansas and Kentucky now pay $10/hour. Substitutes make minimum wage. Here in West Virginia school was canceled statewide today and tomorrow because of a teacher walkout, they're upset they're seeing annual pay cuts, in the form of declining wages and being expected to provide more and more of their own classroom supplies. Plus increasing insurance costs. Their takehome has gone down something like 33% over the last decade.

Where is the money supposed to come from for these security guards? The teachers aren't even being paid what they should be. Furthermore, you're not exactly going to be getting the best of the best even if the funds appear. Who in their right mind would want to sit in a classroom like that all day long? Then, lets take this one step further... and this is something I'm surprised to see a conspiracy site advocating for. If we put armed guards everywhere aren't we just advocating for a literal police state?



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 12:24 PM
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Teachers do not need guns. There needs to be a trained deterrent.

I am attending our local School Board meeting next week.

Link

Armed and Trained retired LEO's and Military. Put them to work.




edit on Febpm28pmf0000002018-02-22T12:25:49-06:001249 by matafuchs because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 12:24 PM
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The over exaggeration about the holy 2nd amendment, when at the time of its writing the country had stricter gun laws than they do today.

Anybody with half a brain would understand that its no such thing as unlimited freedom in regards to anything.

If you can ban a bazooka then you can ban an AR15



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 12:26 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
Most teachers make more than 10 an hour.

Teachers in my state are well over that. In my town it's $64k


The national average is $36,000 per year. Minus taxes puts them at about $30,000. Minus school supplies puts them at about $25,000. Then there's the massive student loans, as teaching requires a masters degree. You're looking at (at current rates) $70,000 in student loans which is another $5000/year. Putting them at a take home of about $20,000/year which is roughly $10/hour. Walmart cashiers make just as much.



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 12:27 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

Right. Your opinion is the base of all that's true.

The premise of our government is we give them authority if they misuse it we have a right to rebellion.

That is the foundation of our social contract.



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 12:27 PM
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originally posted by: matafuchs
Teachers do not need guns. There needs to be a trained deterrent.

I am attending our local School Board meeting next week.

Link

Armed and Trained retired LEO's and Military. Put them to work.



that is every kids dream

taking test at the barrel of a gun
not every school needs guns
just do it on the local level



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 12:29 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: luthier
Most teachers make more than 10 an hour.

Teachers in my state are well over that. In my town it's $64k


The national average is $36,000 per year. Minus taxes puts them at about $30,000. Minus school supplies puts them at about $25,000. Then there's the massive student loans, as teaching requires a masters degree. You're looking at (at current rates) $70,000 in student loans which is another $5000/year. Putting them at a take home of about $20,000/year which is roughly $10/hour. Walmart cashiers make just as much.


OK. So 10 an hour in south Carolina is the same as Vermont?

A national average means nothing. It's you playimg with numbers to make an argument.

How many months in the summer can teachers work another job?

Do teachers have special programs for their loans?
edit on 22-2-2018 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 12:33 PM
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originally posted by: angeldoll
Back on topic,

So the teachers will have hand guns? Right. Go at somebody who has one of those rapid fire-gun things, and see what happens. The police and security guards will be essentially helpless too with their hand guns, give me a break, unless they can get a shot from behind. How long will it take, and how many lives, to arrange that? Plus it's setting up the teachers on any given hall, to be killed first.

Hands shaking, poor vision, scared to death. Oh yeah. Miss Jones will be able to get him right between the eyes as he's mowing down her classroom with rapid fire.

Absurd.


The next step is school uniforms for teachers and students alike. We'll build them fashionable body armor they have to wear to class.



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 12:35 PM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254
Just imagine how that would feel to the students. Everyday seeing men walking around with rifles and knowing that they've been trained to kill you and your classmates. That doesn't sound like a productive learning environment.


I've experienced this breifly. I was 19 just after 9/11. And I was doing a bunch of traveling around the US. Armed guards walking up and down airports looking for excuses to kill people. Military deployed around town looking at everyone like they're a potential terrorist. That extreme mania died down shortly after, but I can't imagine growing up like that for 12 grades. If nothing else it would condition kids to be extremely accepting of a police state.



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 12:38 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
It's far harder to kill your friends and family in a battle and this is how war and the actual battle is fought. Asymmetrically with the mind.


Not this time it's not. To quote a prominent poster from this very website when I asked them the other day if they would choose their child or their gun: "I can always have another kid, if guns are outlawed I can never have another gun". Or another poster from another website when I asked the question "The Constitution gives me the right to a gun, it doesn't give me the right to a family."



posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 12:38 PM
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Why not simply put a metal detector and security at the main gate? He likes building walls, he could build many magnificent small walls.



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