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originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: projectvxn
Bump stocks are useless and make your rifle less accurate. If we let them ban this, then they will start going after your magazines, then your optics, then your bi-pod. It makes no sense to allow them to ban an item that is merely an accessory. And probably the least dangerous thing you can attach to a rifle.
originally posted by: projectvxn
No, I don't care about bump stocks. The bump-stock is not the hill to die on, and before we get on about slippery slope fallacies, please bear in mind a few questions and consider them carefully:
Is the bump stock required for the effective exercise of the 2nd Amendment? If it is, why? Be specific as to why the bump-stock is germane to the exercise of our rights, and how those rights will be affected by the absence of the bump stock.
Does the bump stock add a tactical advantage that you would otherwise not have? *There is a logic to this question beyond the obvious that I would also like to address, and that is:*
If we regularly tell gun grabbers that the 2nd Amendment isn't about hunting or recreation, but then dance around what the Amendment and our firearms are for, does that make us cowards or hypocrites when it comes to the defense of the bump-stock?
Recreational use is the number one known application of bump-fire/slide-fire stocks, excluding competition(wonder why?). They provide no tactical advantage or fill any tactical gap that I can identify despite my best efforts, based on my experience and knowledge.
I don't know about other gun owners. But I carry Glock 19 Gen 4 with an RMR and suppressor height sights so I can put holes in the meatbag that thought I'd make a good victim.
I own and maintain an AR pattern rifle chambered in 7.62x39, also with some neat optics and accessories to make it easier for me to fill meatbags with holes for entering my home without an invitation, or fill foreign meatbags with holes for invading my home, and in the event my own government is taken over by meatbags that refuse to abdicate power, thereby threatening our security as a free people.
That's what I own weapons for. I'm under no illusions about what the Second Amendment is for.
So let's stop hanging our hats on the "Sporting use" garbage. Screw the bump-tock. That thing is going to go away whether we like it or not. If you want to tell people that you're no longer talking, that negotiations are over, and you've drawn a line in the sand, you'd better be willing to back it up. Because once you're done talking the only thing left is fighting. Is the bump-stock THE hill to die on? Certainly not for me.
If they banned pic rail nut sacks tomorrow or tried to, is this something you're gonna embarrass yourselves over?
I recently told a friend of mine in a debate that I want to stop focusing on what was and what could be, and focus on what is instead.
I recently wrote an essay(some of which was discussed here) about the Universal Basic Income and the automation issue. I argued quite hard against the UBI KNOWING that regardless of what I say, the UBI will happen. Not because it is a good idea, but because mob rule works regardless of the systems you put in place. It's what "They" want, and it is what they will get. Despite this, even "They" know there are problems with the system they want and are actively brainstorming methods of making the theory work.
Our problem is that we stopped critically thinking about Second Amendment issues(antis never started). It is absolutely NOT enough to say "All or nothing". We live in a country with people who disagree with us, and in any negotiation, you have to be willing to do two things in order to win, lose something you can live without and be willing to walk away. The latter of the two is reserved for situations where winning is a must, but you can't afford to lose anything. This is not the case with the bump-stock, and yet we are making it that.
I don't think I have to tell anyone on ATS what my positions are on the Second Amendment. So when someone calls me a shill for acknowledging what is the reality we live in, I have to wonder exactly where this is all going to go. The argument is that if I don't come out strongly for this useless hunk of # we call a bump-stock, then I don't care about the Second Amendment.
Why are we making this "The Stand"? How does this secure a victory for the Second Amendment? Why aren't we actually honest about the purpose of our right to arms? You can't win an argument without acknowledging truths. If we can't even be honest with ourselves, if we can't acknowledge the complex society we live in, if we can't critically think on these issues, we will lose the Second Amendment altogether.
I am not addressing liberals antis because I know where they stand and why even if they don't.
But, I'm not convinced my fellow gun owners and 2A advocates know WHY they stand so firmly on this issue.
I may be in the minority among gun owners, but at this point, I am willing to listen to anyone who has good ideas, even if they don't go along with my current view.
originally posted by: Edumakated
originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: projectvxn
Bump stocks are useless and make your rifle less accurate. If we let them ban this, then they will start going after your magazines, then your optics, then your bi-pod. It makes no sense to allow them to ban an item that is merely an accessory. And probably the least dangerous thing you can attach to a rifle.
Give an inch, they take a mile...