It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Are boys 'broken'?

page: 7
36
<< 4  5  6    8  9  10 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 10:45 AM
link   

originally posted by: Thirty6BelowZero

originally posted by: loam
a reply to: luthier

I'm still trying to decide for myself the merit of this point. Does toxic femininity exist? Not sure. But I do agree with the broader point that the absence of a nuclear family tends to make children more susceptible to problems. But included with that notion, I would add the loss of the extended family and community that shares in the responsibility of raising healthy children.

100% agree with your electronic saturation point. The science there is very clear.


When I think of toxic femininity, here's what I think of:

Working to support the family was once seen as the man's job so that the woman didn't have to get out and work. Now that's seen as the man doing it because women were incapable.

Cooking, sewing, cleaning, raising the kids was once seen as the woman's job while the man busted his ass everyday to make money. Anything she couldn't handle, the man handled for her. Now that's seen as men thinking women should only be cleaning and breeding.

Opening the door for a woman used to be seen as gentlemanly. Now it's seen as the man doing it because he doesn't think a woman can do it.

Paying for dinner used to be the man's job. Now it's seen as the man only doing it because he thinks the woman is broke and using him for his money.

I was raised by a gentleman to be a gentleman. When I was 34, my now fiance was 21. She was shocked the first few months we were together because I would open doors for her, pay for our dates, etc. Now she's spoiled to it, but that's another story. The point is, we do those all of those so the woman doesn't have to, all she has to do nurture the children. She don't even have to cook. But that's all been spoiled and tainted because toxic femininity has taught these once strong women who depended on the man that depended on them as they depended on each other and the kids depended on their advice and raising, that they don't need some man doing everything because he's just putting them down and viewing them as property.


You are describing aspects of culture. Culture changes.

Both men and woman had to work to expand the possibilities of income. Nothing wrong with that.

In that situation arose some women will make more than their men. So now if one is to stay home should it be the woman even if she is a vp compared to say a carpenter?

Should a man not learn how to raise his kids? Is a man incapable of raising kids?

Biology is a factor but not really for cultural traditions. Sometimes men are actually just as nurturing as women. Perhaps the approach is different but the outcome of a positive adult for society is the goal. Men are plenty capable of raising kids. Woman are plenty capable of holding high paying jobs.

That doesn't make men and woman the same.
edit on 20-2-2018 by luthier because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 10:46 AM
link   

originally posted by: Thirty6BelowZero

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Thirty6BelowZero

Way to continue to miss my point. It's like you believe all of history is comprised of only your lifetime or something and refuse to understand why certain traditions are the way they are or why certain things considered "disrespectful" are considered so while not considered so for the opposite gender doing the same thing.

To be honest, I didn't expect to even need to explain my point to you. It's not even arguable that women have had a #ty experience throughout history being told there is something wrong with them just because they are women.


Where do you get this from? When were men telling women there was something wrong with them?

Original sin

It's pretty much a defining feature of the Christian religion. That's just one example.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 10:47 AM
link   
a reply to: TinySickTears

Hey, I'd be a wild child money blowing party animal if it wasn't for my fiance taming my wild and crazy ass 5 years ago... Same for my dad if he hadn't met my mom back in 1975. Women most definitely keep men tame, and sometimes it's the other way around, just not nearly as often.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 10:53 AM
link   

originally posted by: redhorse

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: redhorse

Juvenile as well now..

Well perception is a funny thing. It's easy to believe things are impossible and get stuck in the mud.


I am not stuck in the mud. I am fed up though. I am brawling with the school because if I don't she is in danger. If I don't they will absolutely make me a target as they have done to other people in the community. I can afford an attorney, so they are only willing to go so far.

I was able to identify that you are closely associated with a school based upon your behavioral cues that are in fact, dismissive, condescending, assumptive and yes, juvenile. Not anything else, just those cue, a few sentences that are nasty, rude, and just like nearly every school administrator I have to deal with. Either, your environment is affecting your behavior, or it could just be that certain personalities are drawn to work in and with schools. I don't know. In my experience, which now includes you, these are not reasonable people that are capable of self examination or even self control. That should tell you something, but I don't think that it will. I hope to god that you don't talk to kids the way that you talk to me though.

All of these people see themselves as hero's. I'm sure you do too. They, and you clearly are very invested in that narrative, and anything that threatens that self image is squashed with demeaning or aggressive behavior. Also, they are usually only hero's for some kids. The right ones. The ones that they like for whatever reason. For others they are the villain. I'm sure you are too.

I think at this point we are just sniping at each other and we are being rude with the derail. If you want to continue, pm me.


I clearly stated I was wrestling coach before. If you didn't bother to read that it's on you.

Good for your for being involved. If you think that 100 percent of your school is bad and there are no good teachers you perhaps need to look within yourself.

If you don't know how to make alliances with the teachers you think are worth while that is on you.

If you didn't read I said many teachers are also frustrated by the system that is on you.

You really blame the school which if fine. However, why can't you move? Are you working? In debt? Taking care of extended family?

Or simply can't find another job anywhere in the country?

I am not closely associated in anyway to the schools administration. I am actively involved in my children's education and I teach wrestling after school.

It seems you are pretty stuck in the mud. But it's probably just my juvenile opinion becuse I am not blaming the world for keeping down.
edit on 20-2-2018 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 10:54 AM
link   

originally posted by: loam
a reply to: Wayfarer

.. whether there is any merit to thinking in terms of toxic male or female behavior? Maybe there is just toxic behavior attributable to a thousand different reasons, the least of which is sex.



This seems like a pretty wise view on the matter, and one free of stereotypes. I like this mentality and think it serves to shed biases inherent in the situation.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 10:55 AM
link   

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Thirty6BelowZero
a reply to: Wayfarer

Yes. #MeToo


C'mon man, I'm not calling you out, I asked for examples in a reasonable fashion, the least you can do is formulate your response in a more understandable manner than a hashtag. Please explain.


After Harvey Weinstein's abuse scandal, lots and lots of women started coming out with that hashtag and saying they'd been sexually abused by either Weinstein or another actor/producer/politician and very few were Republicans. Kevin Spacey sexually abused the main character's red headed friend in the movie "Adventures in Babysitting" back in the 80's. There are tons of these stories.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 10:59 AM
link   

originally posted by: Thirty6BelowZero

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Thirty6BelowZero
a reply to: Wayfarer

Yes. #MeToo


C'mon man, I'm not calling you out, I asked for examples in a reasonable fashion, the least you can do is formulate your response in a more understandable manner than a hashtag. Please explain.


After Harvey Weinstein's abuse scandal, lots and lots of women started coming out with that hashtag and saying they'd been sexually abused by either Weinstein or another actor/producer/politician and very few were Republicans. Kevin Spacey sexually abused the main character's red headed friend in the movie "Adventures in Babysitting" back in the 80's. There are tons of these stories.


If I can list off a bunch of Ted haggard republicans caught with little boys and men are they more likely to abuse male children or be secretly gay?
edit on 20-2-2018 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 11:02 AM
link   

originally posted by: Thirty6BelowZero

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Thirty6BelowZero
a reply to: Wayfarer

Yes. #MeToo


C'mon man, I'm not calling you out, I asked for examples in a reasonable fashion, the least you can do is formulate your response in a more understandable manner than a hashtag. Please explain.


After Harvey Weinstein's abuse scandal, lots and lots of women started coming out with that hashtag and saying they'd been sexually abused by either Weinstein or another actor/producer/politician and very few were Republicans. Kevin Spacey sexually abused the main character's red headed friend in the movie "Adventures in Babysitting" back in the 80's. There are tons of these stories.


Well sure there are perpetrators on both sides of the political spectrum (and as I posited much earlier in this thread, just looking at political figures I had to go back to the 70's to find a decade where Democratic scandals outnumbered Republican scandals) but I'm not sure I buy into the reasoning that the Democrats shoulder the lion's share of blame in this regard. If you are suggesting that the majority of sexual assaults are perpetrated by registered Democrats, then I'd kindly ask to see from where you derived those statistics (and preferably not an anecdotal reference).



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 11:05 AM
link   
a reply to: Hypntick

I do think that boys are taught this from a young age, the old Just Walk Away stuff. I don't think that it works either. I think trying to teach a tiered approach to conflict resolution is appropriate, but that defending yourself physically may be necessary in the end. I do think that it is important (and really difficult) to teach when that is appropriate. Some kids, not just boys and I'm not saying you were in the category by any means, have a hard time discerning real physical harm from embarrassment. Sometimes though, you need to fight. One way or another, you need to fight.

I get what you're saying as far as school administration half stepping and really just making things worse. I think that happens a lot. I also think it is fair to acknowledge that in many circumstances their hands are tied. They are legally bound to certain protocols and procedures, (that are largely ineffective, and I think most school administrators would acknowledge that and express frustration).

I'm sorry you ended up on the crappiest end of these social push and pulls but I'm glad your dad seemed to support you and it seems like you came out with a better self image in the long run. At least I hope it was beneficial in the end.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 11:06 AM
link   
eraoflight.com...


originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Which speaks to my point: women have the greatest influence over children. So much so that the majority of family court rulings place custody with the mother. Women tend to be the nurses, the teachers, and do the majority of parenting tasks. For good or bad, thats how it is.

Add to that the women who have children with fathers in prison. The children who are most at risk for becoming criminals themselves.


"Toxic masculinity"...from where does it derive?


eraoflight.com...

There is a reason they shoot up schools. Schools are the problem.
and drugging kids for "mental health". Schools and pharma. Common denominator in every schhol shooting
edit on 20-2-2018 by bulwarkz because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-2-2018 by bulwarkz because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-2-2018 by bulwarkz because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 11:13 AM
link   
a reply to: luthier

Actually I forgot to add that if extra income is wanted or needed then both would work. My dad loved my sister and I as much as my mom did, he coached my baseball teams. He was also the reason I was raised a gentleman and never once raised my hand to a woman. I once bowed up to my mom when I was around 13 and he put me against the wall and told me if I was man enough to bow up to my mom then he'd most certainly give me the opportunity to fight him like a man. Mom couldn't have stopped me, I was already bigger than her. Without him, there's no telling where I'd be today. My kids run over their mom all the time but never attempt to run over me and we use the same discipline. A father figure is detrimental to most families. Again, the man and woman have different skill sets and both are needed in a family. Neither should be viewed as equal in all aspects.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 11:16 AM
link   

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Thirty6BelowZero

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Thirty6BelowZero

Way to continue to miss my point. It's like you believe all of history is comprised of only your lifetime or something and refuse to understand why certain traditions are the way they are or why certain things considered "disrespectful" are considered so while not considered so for the opposite gender doing the same thing.

To be honest, I didn't expect to even need to explain my point to you. It's not even arguable that women have had a #ty experience throughout history being told there is something wrong with them just because they are women.


Where do you get this from? When were men telling women there was something wrong with them?

Original sin

It's pretty much a defining feature of the Christian religion. That's just one example.


Uhh, I was raised in a Southern Baptist church and I've never once heard that men believe there's something wrong with women.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 11:21 AM
link   
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Not to mention nearly all world religions. Why did you just single out Christianity?



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 11:22 AM
link   

originally posted by: Thirty6BelowZero
a reply to: TinySickTears

Hey, I'd be a wild child money blowing party animal if it wasn't for my fiance taming my wild and crazy ass 5 years ago... Same for my dad if he hadn't met my mom back in 1975. Women most definitely keep men tame, and sometimes it's the other way around, just not nearly as often.


Hmmmm.
Not me.
I'm an adult though



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 11:25 AM
link   

originally posted by: Wayfarer
Apologies if I've missed something obvious, but have there been any mass/school shootings perpetuated by females?

Yes. Brenda Spencer


edit on 2/20/2018 by Subrosabelow because: (no reason given)

edit on 2/20/2018 by Subrosabelow because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 11:29 AM
link   

originally posted by: loam



I wonder where we will be in 10 to 15 years from now, when the current crop of 8-18 year olds reaches adulthood after an entire childhood of being told that if you are white, straight, and male (actually you only need to be one of the three to be demonized) there is something inherently bad about you.

Spiting nails over this repulsive nonsense.



I actually talked about this with my two boys ages 14 and 18 and it is funny that they and their friends have a much more traditional view compared to the last generation Y that many before and after see as a screwed up generation. With that said we need to understand that America is vastly different in many parts of the country. We are faked out to thinking much of it is the same because we see the same Walmarts, Costcos Malls etc everywhere we go, but the reality is societies are very different.

They are very healthy, wife cooks all meals, they do not take meds and are extremely emotionally stable for their ages. Most kids in their schools are the same with like lifestyles. The few that are considered "bad" come from a bad family environment with very bad diet habits that they have only known. Other parts of the country we see "bad family environment with very bad diet habits" as more of the norm compared to where I live that it is much rarer.

Back when I was a kid there was bullying, common fights, cops in hallways, massive racial tension, no helmets, knee pads or seatbelts and many social groups that war against each other more times than not...But there wasn't mass shootings as we see today and even though guns were typically easier to get with school gun clubs, trucks with guns in the back window and a general attitude that guns were no big deal. One other thing that was different was our diets that to have fast foods etc was a luxury so most of our meals were home cooked style with healthy basic food groups.

One thing we also didn't have was a vast range added to Autism, ADHD etc that can basically include everyone in some form and that can drive meds at an extreme level. Not only do these meds have serious side effects but to come off them cause serious side effects too. My wife was told by a teacher that my 14 year, old who was 6 at the time, that he was ADHD and that he should be on drugs. I said no, he just a six year old, and who has grown up to be a very responsible, calm and focused young adult. My education is in Phycology and I was a test subject for Ritalin back in the 60s that helped me greatly for about three years, so I'm aware what is normal and not normal.

The problem is how many kids today are on a very wide range of drugs that have side effects of either suicidal or abnormal rage fits that in the vast majority of cases should not be and just need a good diet to regulate them. We take the quick and easy approach that in the end almost always does more harm than good.

Something is broken....




edit on 20-2-2018 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 11:51 AM
link   
a reply to: Xtrozero

I agree something is broken, but I suspect it has far more to with the adults.

Been writing about this for years. A Conspiracy Against Children: Exactly who is out of control?

A thirteen year old thread that over the course of the next ten years, sort of proved my point.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 11:51 AM
link   
a reply to: redhorse

I would agree that quite a few boys are quick to reach into the bag and pull out a fight quickly. Obviously you want that to be your last resort, but with how kids are taught these days it's not even an option. Heck that's part of why my wife and I don't have kids, I'd probably be arrested for teaching them half the stuff dad taught me.

Everything is good now, most everything cleared up after my freshman year of high school. Part of that was my understanding of how to handle conflict, part of it was bullies realizing I was way more trouble than I was worth, and part was maturity on the part of everyone involved. I unfortunately have a rather comical last name, so it was fairly inevitable that I was going to be messed with. Dad had been through the same thing, so he at least knew what it was like, and how to handle a lot of it. Part of it was teaching me things he'd learned as a Marine, and part was just his own experience growing up.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 12:07 PM
link   
a reply to: neo96


Because it's (mostly) a (stupid) talking point. The rest of the developed (white) first world has "mental illness" in the same ratios as we do and yet, somehow -- they don't have rampage shooters anywhere near as often. Why?

They also have (violent!) video games, TV (with more sex!) and youth music.

Some are considerably more atheist than we are (Australia, anyone?).

The ugly truth is there are probably 12-15 elements of causation to our "problem" but the American people (and the American media) aren't equipped to have discussions around this number of variables. We have been systematically dumbed down to such a point that we can only discuss one variable at a time at any scale larger than a small group of less than seven people.

This is by design. The learned helpless make excellent (wage) slaves.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 12:24 PM
link   
a reply to: loam

Loam, I have respected your contributions to these forums for many years, but with all due respect, your OP does more to illustrate the problem you highlight than it does to resolve the problem.

Do you not see that?

I understand that, as a parent, your first instinct is to defend your child. But do you not recognize the irony inherent in the tone and intensity of defensive effort. Sure, the initial response to a perceived threat may be extremely visceral in nature, but the action taken in response must be the product of intelligent analysis and consideration: response, not mere reaction.

It is said that children learn far more by what they see than by what they are told. If our sons are to learn what it is to be real men, it behooves their fathers to show, not just tell, them how to be real men.

And real men do not “fly off the handle” at what they perceive to be insults; they respond, after considering the source and possible motivation of the offender, intelligently and proportionally.

Thus demonstrating that a real man is not the damaged, broken beast some would make him out to be; that violent masculinity is a sad and disturbing exception, not the simmering rule.




top topics



 
36
<< 4  5  6    8  9  10 >>

log in

join