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Are boys 'broken'?

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posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 09:16 AM
link   

originally posted by: redhorse

originally posted by: loam

originally posted by: redhorse
a reply to: loam
"I am frustrated and I would pound you into compliance with my world view if I thought I could get away with it".


So you went too far there, demonstrating some knee jerk response of your own.

Not only is equating my language in this thread to an actual threat of violence patently ridiculous, but you added an additional element by assuming I'd jump at the chance "if I thought I could get away with it".

Why would that be? Because I'm male? White? Straight?

Follow my point?

Moreover, the 'your side' language completely mistakes the camp I'm actually in, which is to say that rather than running around and assigning a presumption of ill intent based upon what 'class' you might be in, maybe we'd be better off dropping the whole identity narrative altogether and judge ALL people by their actions and not their biology or social grouping.

Otherwise, there is much we agree on in your post.



Pointing out where you are contributing to the problem is not a knee jerk response. It is constructive criticism, at least I intended it that way. And threatening violence, which is what you were doing, is quite reactionary. Everyone makes mistakes. You made one. I understand if you don't want to see that, and it was predictable. I am judging you certainly, but by your words, not your biology or social grouping.

On a related note, ignoring the influence of biology, on both males and females, regarding how it influences our behavior is foolish (it's one of my biggest criticisms for feminism actually). We can't just pretend that most men and boys aren't more aggressive than women or that many women don't match men for spatial intelligence (for example). When I say either one of these things, which are undeniably true, people get really, really angry. We need to stop pretending that women can be men, and men can be women. There are differences in the genders that create behavioral pitfalls and propensities (both good and bad I suppose). I don't think that's quite what you're saying here, but it seems like it might be headed that way.


There is truth in this statement.

The confusion over people should be treated with equal respect has turned into everyone is the same.

Women have abilities men dont have and men have abilities woman don't have and their is also overlap.

The problem in the past has been treating onomolies with disrespect. Sometimes men and woman will be onomolies to their biology and they were sometimes abused for this.

It doesn't mean we are the same. It means we need to have access to compete and live however we are best suited with a fair pathway. Not a forced men and woman are the same.

Woman used to be great a skinning animals. Now it's a guy thing by majority in many places. Some things are cultural. Some are biological.

Hysterical grouping and making people the same isn't a positive approach imo either.




posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 09:16 AM
link   

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bulwarkz

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bulwarkz

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: loam


Are boys 'broken'? Another mass shooting renews debate on toxic masculinity

After 19-year-old Nikolas Cruz was accused of gunning down 17 people at a Florida high school last week, comedian Michael Ian Black started a thread on Twitter that sparked a vitriolic debate about the role of gender in gun violence. It began with the tweet, "Deeper even than the gun problem is this: boys are broken."

Black's tweet has been liked nearly 65,000 times. In an interview with NPR on Sunday, he elaborated.

"I think it means that there is something going on with American men that is giving them the permission and space to commit violence," he said. "And one of the main things we focus on correctly is guns and mental health, but I think deeper than that is a problem, a crisis in masculinity."



As a parent of a young white adolescent male, this kind of thinking makes me want to perpetrate some toxic masculinity of my own on people who subscribe to this perspective.

What could possibly go wrong with making young impressionable boys feel there is something inherently wrong with them? And let's be clear, it's not just restricted to their sex. The cultural message includes race and sexuality too.

I can't imagine what it would have been like to have been raised in today's climate.

I wonder where we will be in 10 to 15 years from now, when the current crop of 8-18 year olds reaches adulthood after an entire childhood of being told that if you are white, straight, and male (actually you only need to be one of the three to be demonized) there is something inherently bad about you.

Spiting nails over this repulsive nonsense.



The whole whoa as me white identy crisis is rediculous.

It's as much propaganda and irrational as safe spaces and ultra leftist propaganda.

It's snowflake syndrome. How about you fight irational behavior with sanity. Not oh i feel so sorry for myself because I am attacked for being white. Which isn't real anyway. It's a media presentation of radical idiology.

How about teaching your kid about resilience instead of feeling sorry for himself. That would be a start.

You mean, destroy public schools and homeschool your children if you want control of indoctri???, I mean, education


No.

I mean stop whining and take control. Get off Facebook and get involved in your public school and policy. Stop creating a wedge between you and someone who may not think the same and create rational compromises.
no just get rid of the problem and what doesn't work
There is no reason to keep kicking the dead horse. It simply cannot be ridden. You said take responsibility but the pointed in the direction of irresponsible accountability to a teachers union that poses as authority


Well here is the thing not everybody shares your view. Half the country identifies as liberal.

Yes unions are a problem. Same as with the police force. However, it's up to parents to educate their children as well. You have the right to put them in private schools or home school currently. A voucher program would help with the cost of private schools.

I hear a whole lot of victims here. How is that any different from those you loathe in the "indoctrination" system.

WOW! Victims? Try survivors!
I am not whining, i am fixing. I have been one to step in and correct the problem for at least 30 years. I fix broken boys that survived public schools. I teach work ethic and critical thought. I take boys and create men. I teach accountability. I did it by first and formost, by example.
But there is a snag. I am finding the millenials are impossible to teach. They simply refuse to be accountable in any way. And that's the high school grads. The "higher" educated after a university diversication mind numbing dumbing down boot camp indoctrination just creates 90% of them life long debtors to loans for degrees that are worthless along with their work ethic. It is as if they all anticipate robotics and AI to do all the work and thought for them.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 09:18 AM
link   

originally posted by: bulwarkz

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bulwarkz

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bulwarkz

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: loam


Are boys 'broken'? Another mass shooting renews debate on toxic masculinity

After 19-year-old Nikolas Cruz was accused of gunning down 17 people at a Florida high school last week, comedian Michael Ian Black started a thread on Twitter that sparked a vitriolic debate about the role of gender in gun violence. It began with the tweet, "Deeper even than the gun problem is this: boys are broken."

Black's tweet has been liked nearly 65,000 times. In an interview with NPR on Sunday, he elaborated.

"I think it means that there is something going on with American men that is giving them the permission and space to commit violence," he said. "And one of the main things we focus on correctly is guns and mental health, but I think deeper than that is a problem, a crisis in masculinity."



As a parent of a young white adolescent male, this kind of thinking makes me want to perpetrate some toxic masculinity of my own on people who subscribe to this perspective.

What could possibly go wrong with making young impressionable boys feel there is something inherently wrong with them? And let's be clear, it's not just restricted to their sex. The cultural message includes race and sexuality too.

I can't imagine what it would have been like to have been raised in today's climate.

I wonder where we will be in 10 to 15 years from now, when the current crop of 8-18 year olds reaches adulthood after an entire childhood of being told that if you are white, straight, and male (actually you only need to be one of the three to be demonized) there is something inherently bad about you.

Spiting nails over this repulsive nonsense.



The whole whoa as me white identy crisis is rediculous.

It's as much propaganda and irrational as safe spaces and ultra leftist propaganda.

It's snowflake syndrome. How about you fight irational behavior with sanity. Not oh i feel so sorry for myself because I am attacked for being white. Which isn't real anyway. It's a media presentation of radical idiology.

How about teaching your kid about resilience instead of feeling sorry for himself. That would be a start.

You mean, destroy public schools and homeschool your children if you want control of indoctri???, I mean, education


No.

I mean stop whining and take control. Get off Facebook and get involved in your public school and policy. Stop creating a wedge between you and someone who may not think the same and create rational compromises.
no just get rid of the problem and what doesn't work
There is no reason to keep kicking the dead horse. It simply cannot be ridden. You said take responsibility but the pointed in the direction of irresponsible accountability to a teachers union that poses as authority


Well here is the thing not everybody shares your view. Half the country identifies as liberal.

Yes unions are a problem. Same as with the police force. However, it's up to parents to educate their children as well. You have the right to put them in private schools or home school currently. A voucher program would help with the cost of private schools.

I hear a whole lot of victims here. How is that any different from those you loathe in the "indoctrination" system.

WOW! Victims? Try survivors!
I am not whining, i am fixing. I have been one to step in and correct the problem for at least 30 years. I fix broken boys that survived public schools. I teach work ethic and critical thought. I take boys and create men. I teach accountability. I did it by first and formost, by example.
But there is a snag. I am finding the millenials are impossible to teach. They simply refuse to be accountable in any way. And that's the high school grads. The "higher" educated after a university diversication mind numbing dumbing down boot camp indoctrination just creates 90% of them life long debtors to loans for degrees that are worthless along with their work ethic. It is as if they all anticipate robotics and AI to do all the work and thought for them.


I hear a lot of whining and excuses for your failures.

I teach wrestling. It's hard. Sometimes I fail as a teacher.

See the difference.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 09:19 AM
link   

originally posted by: Thirty6BelowZero


...most of the politicians that are busted sexually abusing women are democrats...


So you're saying the Democrats are just worse at keeping it hidden or more incompetent at evading punishment?
edit on 08am18famTue, 20 Feb 2018 09:21:13 -0600America/ChicagoTue, 20 Feb 2018 09:21:13 -0600 by Wayfarer because: (no reason given)

edit on 08am18famTue, 20 Feb 2018 09:31:13 -0600America/ChicagoTue, 20 Feb 2018 09:31:13 -0600 by Wayfarer because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 09:23 AM
link   
a reply to: loam


As a parent of a young white adolescent male, this kind of thinking makes me want to perpetrate some toxic masculinity of my own on people who subscribe to this perspective.


And I'm pretty darn sure that's exactly the reaction some folks are hoping for. Now it's not about horrific murders, just about you and your kid. It's personal. It's emotional.


What could possibly go wrong with making young impressionable boys feel there is something inherently wrong with them?


Lots. Some folks are counting on it. And they're counting on you to play the outraged


And let's be clear, it's not just restricted to their sex. The cultural message includes race and sexuality too.


Of course. We've seen this played out before. For example how many times have we been told that "most crimes are committed by Blacks"? It's never pointed out that most crimes are committed by a small fraction of Black gang members. So it's a relative few people within the Black population committing multiple crimes.


I can't imagine what it would have been like to have been raised in today's climate.


Every generation has its challenges. I don't think this is the greatest challenge today's kids face.


I wonder where we will be in 10 to 15 years from now, when the current crop of 8-18 year olds reaches adulthood after an entire childhood of being told that if you are white, straight, and male (actually you only need to be one of the three to be demonized) there is something inherently bad about you.


That really depends on what their parents and other respected people in their lives tell them, doesn't it? Are the parents up to teaching their kids that this is all stupid politics meant to divide-and-conquer? That no one can be reduced to bits and parts? That we should be judged by our character and not the color of our skin or gender or religion or any other bit or part of the whole? And that depraved mass murder is depraved mass murder no matter who the perpetrator or the victims?

Or will the parents perpetuate the nonsense... will they have a pity party because the bad person said mean things about White straight males? Or, on the other side of the coin, will they gloat because those privileged White straight males are finally getting theirs?



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 09:25 AM
link   

originally posted by: Thirty6BelowZero

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: loam
What could possibly go wrong with making young impressionable boys feel there is something inherently wrong with them?

I don't know. Why don't you ask women? We've been doing this to them through religion since, oh I dunno, forever.


You should have stopped at "oh I dunno." Women aren't degraded. They're told they're degraded by evil white Republican males. Even when Hollywood's sexual abusers, and most of the politicians that are busted sexually abusing women are democrats. It's obvious that, uh you dunno.

So your whole life is analyzed through a Republican/Democrat partisan lenses? So how do the Republicans and Democrats factor into how Abrahamic religions have been demonizing women since their inception? Things like "original sin" or forcing them to basically be property to men. I wonder how the Democrats are responsible for women having to wear tons of clothes and are told to be ashamed to show off skin.

Since I dunno anything, I'm sure you can elucidate these issues to me as I was always under the impression that neither the Democrat nor the Republican parties existed throughout human history.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 09:25 AM
link   

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bulwarkz

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bulwarkz

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bulwarkz

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: loam


Are boys 'broken'? Another mass shooting renews debate on toxic masculinity

After 19-year-old Nikolas Cruz was accused of gunning down 17 people at a Florida high school last week, comedian Michael Ian Black started a thread on Twitter that sparked a vitriolic debate about the role of gender in gun violence. It began with the tweet, "Deeper even than the gun problem is this: boys are broken."

Black's tweet has been liked nearly 65,000 times. In an interview with NPR on Sunday, he elaborated.

"I think it means that there is something going on with American men that is giving them the permission and space to commit violence," he said. "And one of the main things we focus on correctly is guns and mental health, but I think deeper than that is a problem, a crisis in masculinity."



As a parent of a young white adolescent male, this kind of thinking makes me want to perpetrate some toxic masculinity of my own on people who subscribe to this perspective.

What could possibly go wrong with making young impressionable boys feel there is something inherently wrong with them? And let's be clear, it's not just restricted to their sex. The cultural message includes race and sexuality too.

I can't imagine what it would have been like to have been raised in today's climate.

I wonder where we will be in 10 to 15 years from now, when the current crop of 8-18 year olds reaches adulthood after an entire childhood of being told that if you are white, straight, and male (actually you only need to be one of the three to be demonized) there is something inherently bad about you.

Spiting nails over this repulsive nonsense.



The whole whoa as me white identy crisis is rediculous.

It's as much propaganda and irrational as safe spaces and ultra leftist propaganda.

It's snowflake syndrome. How about you fight irational behavior with sanity. Not oh i feel so sorry for myself because I am attacked for being white. Which isn't real anyway. It's a media presentation of radical idiology.

How about teaching your kid about resilience instead of feeling sorry for himself. That would be a start.

You mean, destroy public schools and homeschool your children if you want control of indoctri???, I mean, education


No.

I mean stop whining and take control. Get off Facebook and get involved in your public school and policy. Stop creating a wedge between you and someone who may not think the same and create rational compromises.
no just get rid of the problem and what doesn't work
There is no reason to keep kicking the dead horse. It simply cannot be ridden. You said take responsibility but the pointed in the direction of irresponsible accountability to a teachers union that poses as authority


Well here is the thing not everybody shares your view. Half the country identifies as liberal.

Yes unions are a problem. Same as with the police force. However, it's up to parents to educate their children as well. You have the right to put them in private schools or home school currently. A voucher program would help with the cost of private schools.

I hear a whole lot of victims here. How is that any different from those you loathe in the "indoctrination" system.

WOW! Victims? Try survivors!
I am not whining, i am fixing. I have been one to step in and correct the problem for at least 30 years. I fix broken boys that survived public schools. I teach work ethic and critical thought. I take boys and create men. I teach accountability. I did it by first and formost, by example.
But there is a snag. I am finding the millenials are impossible to teach. They simply refuse to be accountable in any way. And that's the high school grads. The "higher" educated after a university diversication mind numbing dumbing down boot camp indoctrination just creates 90% of them life long debtors to loans for degrees that are worthless along with their work ethic. It is as if they all anticipate robotics and AI to do all the work and thought for them.


I hear a lot of whining and excuses for your failures.

I teach wrestling. It's hard. Sometimes I fail as a teacher.

See the difference.
my failures? It might be my poor grammar. I doubt it though. I suspect you are standing too close to the fire is all. You most likely feel you have no choice but to do what you do. It sounds like Stockholm Syndrome with some Munchausen Syndrome combined into a knee jerk reaction to defend life choices.
I feel like the guy holding a towel for you while standing on the beach watching you question what it is I am doing because you think you are a fish and do not realize you are wet.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 09:28 AM
link   

originally posted by: redhorse

Pointing out where you are contributing to the problem is not a knee jerk response. It is constructive criticism, at least I intended it that way. And threatening violence, which is what you were doing, is quite reactionary. Everyone makes mistakes. You made one. I understand if you don't want to see that, and it was predictable. I am judging you certainly, but by your words, not your biology or social grouping.


You conveniently left out the fact that apparently I'd follow through on my statement if I thought I could get away with it. What is that assumption called? A mistake?

Look, I'm nearly universally on board with civil language and discourse. But I'm nearly equally on board with resisting the notion that mere language rises to level of action, which it does not.



On a related note, ignoring the influence of biology, on both males and females, regarding how it influences our behavior is foolish (it's one of my biggest criticisms for feminism actually). We can't just pretend that most men and boys aren't more aggressive than women or that many women don't match men for spatial intelligence (for example). When I say either one of these things, which are undeniably true, people get really, really angry. We need to stop pretending that women can be men, and men can be women. There are differences in the genders that create behavioral pitfalls and propensities (both good and bad I suppose). I don't think that's quite what you're saying here, but it seems like it might be headed that way.


Differences also exist between several common grouping of experience. So what? Whether we are talking about the biological differences you mention, or any others, my main point on that would be that we better be certain that when we engage in these broad generalizations and loose connections, we don't convert those into social policy that simply replaces one problem for another or grows the actual problems we have.


edit on 20-2-2018 by loam because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 09:29 AM
link   

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: redhorse

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bulwarkz

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: loam


Are boys 'broken'? Another mass shooting renews debate on toxic masculinity

After 19-year-old Nikolas Cruz was accused of gunning down 17 people at a Florida high school last week, comedian Michael Ian Black started a thread on Twitter that sparked a vitriolic debate about the role of gender in gun violence. It began with the tweet, "Deeper even than the gun problem is this: boys are broken."

Black's tweet has been liked nearly 65,000 times. In an interview with NPR on Sunday, he elaborated.

"I think it means that there is something going on with American men that is giving them the permission and space to commit violence," he said. "And one of the main things we focus on correctly is guns and mental health, but I think deeper than that is a problem, a crisis in masculinity."



As a parent of a young white adolescent male, this kind of thinking makes me want to perpetrate some toxic masculinity of my own on people who subscribe to this perspective.

What could possibly go wrong with making young impressionable boys feel there is something inherently wrong with them? And let's be clear, it's not just restricted to their sex. The cultural message includes race and sexuality too.

I can't imagine what it would have been like to have been raised in today's climate.

I wonder where we will be in 10 to 15 years from now, when the current crop of 8-18 year olds reaches adulthood after an entire childhood of being told that if you are white, straight, and male (actually you only need to be one of the three to be demonized) there is something inherently bad about you.

Spiting nails over this repulsive nonsense.



The whole whoa as me white identy crisis is rediculous.

It's as much propaganda and irrational as safe spaces and ultra leftist propaganda.

It's snowflake syndrome. How about you fight irational behavior with sanity. Not oh i feel so sorry for myself because I am attacked for being white. Which isn't real anyway. It's a media presentation of radical idiology.

How about teaching your kid about resilience instead of feeling sorry for himself. That would be a start.

You mean, destroy public schools and homeschool your children if you want control of indoctri???, I mean, education


No.

I mean stop whining and take control. Get off Facebook and get involved in your public school and policy. Stop creating a wedge between you and someone who may not think the same and create rational compromises.


I've found that "getting involved in your public school" does not in fact create a circumstance where rational compromise is possible. Public schools are indoctrination machines, and the much of the staff, administration and even those on school boards are developmentally stuck at about 15. They highly resent any outside opinions that differ with their own and use the system to shut them down very quickly. And god help you if you try calling them on their juvenile bull$hit. They'll try to take your kids.


I haven't found that. I teach youth wrestling. Literal resilience training.

I think the point of view you are projecting is a victim mentality.

How about lobby for vouchers where you can put your child in a school with your beliefs?

Or do a better job as a parent having meaningful discussions at night at the dinner table?

Or don't. Blame the left for everything. It's surely a lot easier.


I'm on the left, I'm not blaming the left. I'm not sure where you got that. Weird.

I'm also not sure where you are getting a victim mentality because I am willing to acknowledge why people aren't willing to stand up, or even just get involved. Also weird. If you make too much of a fuss, they will absolutely leverage social services.


As an aside. How on earth do you think that you know what sort of meaningful (or not) conversations I have with my kids?

Do you work for a school? You seem awfully defensive and assumptive. You sound a lot like those folks when I deal with them. Dismissive, condescending, angry and assumptive with even the mildest of criticism.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 09:29 AM
link   
a reply to: bulwarkz

I don’t know how you got any of that from his posts. What I get from your posts is a lot of complaining about others. But that is just my view.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 09:32 AM
link   

originally posted by: bulwarkz

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bulwarkz

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bulwarkz

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bulwarkz

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: loam


Are boys 'broken'? Another mass shooting renews debate on toxic masculinity

After 19-year-old Nikolas Cruz was accused of gunning down 17 people at a Florida high school last week, comedian Michael Ian Black started a thread on Twitter that sparked a vitriolic debate about the role of gender in gun violence. It began with the tweet, "Deeper even than the gun problem is this: boys are broken."

Black's tweet has been liked nearly 65,000 times. In an interview with NPR on Sunday, he elaborated.

"I think it means that there is something going on with American men that is giving them the permission and space to commit violence," he said. "And one of the main things we focus on correctly is guns and mental health, but I think deeper than that is a problem, a crisis in masculinity."



As a parent of a young white adolescent male, this kind of thinking makes me want to perpetrate some toxic masculinity of my own on people who subscribe to this perspective.

What could possibly go wrong with making young impressionable boys feel there is something inherently wrong with them? And let's be clear, it's not just restricted to their sex. The cultural message includes race and sexuality too.

I can't imagine what it would have been like to have been raised in today's climate.

I wonder where we will be in 10 to 15 years from now, when the current crop of 8-18 year olds reaches adulthood after an entire childhood of being told that if you are white, straight, and male (actually you only need to be one of the three to be demonized) there is something inherently bad about you.

Spiting nails over this repulsive nonsense.



The whole whoa as me white identy crisis is rediculous.

It's as much propaganda and irrational as safe spaces and ultra leftist propaganda.

It's snowflake syndrome. How about you fight irational behavior with sanity. Not oh i feel so sorry for myself because I am attacked for being white. Which isn't real anyway. It's a media presentation of radical idiology.

How about teaching your kid about resilience instead of feeling sorry for himself. That would be a start.

You mean, destroy public schools and homeschool your children if you want control of indoctri???, I mean, education


No.

I mean stop whining and take control. Get off Facebook and get involved in your public school and policy. Stop creating a wedge between you and someone who may not think the same and create rational compromises.
no just get rid of the problem and what doesn't work
There is no reason to keep kicking the dead horse. It simply cannot be ridden. You said take responsibility but the pointed in the direction of irresponsible accountability to a teachers union that poses as authority


Well here is the thing not everybody shares your view. Half the country identifies as liberal.

Yes unions are a problem. Same as with the police force. However, it's up to parents to educate their children as well. You have the right to put them in private schools or home school currently. A voucher program would help with the cost of private schools.

I hear a whole lot of victims here. How is that any different from those you loathe in the "indoctrination" system.

WOW! Victims? Try survivors!
I am not whining, i am fixing. I have been one to step in and correct the problem for at least 30 years. I fix broken boys that survived public schools. I teach work ethic and critical thought. I take boys and create men. I teach accountability. I did it by first and formost, by example.
But there is a snag. I am finding the millenials are impossible to teach. They simply refuse to be accountable in any way. And that's the high school grads. The "higher" educated after a university diversication mind numbing dumbing down boot camp indoctrination just creates 90% of them life long debtors to loans for degrees that are worthless along with their work ethic. It is as if they all anticipate robotics and AI to do all the work and thought for them.


I hear a lot of whining and excuses for your failures.

I teach wrestling. It's hard. Sometimes I fail as a teacher.

See the difference.
my failures? It might be my poor grammar. I doubt it though. I suspect you are standing too close to the fire is all. You most likely feel you have no choice but to do what you do. It sounds like Stockholm Syndrome with some Munchausen Syndrome combined into a knee jerk reaction to defend life choices.
I feel like the guy holding a towel for you while standing on the beach watching you question what it is I am doing because you think you are a fish and do not realize you are wet.


If it's easier for you to blame others for your failure and the reason you aren't as happy as you could be etc so be it.

I however don't really think it's positive to blame the world for the way it is.

In fact it's easier to have discussions with people who think differently when you when you don't blame and attack them. Maybe you prefer fighting and making enemies?

Liberals have many positive qualities as do conservatives. They need to start talking again and stop blaming.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 09:36 AM
link   
a reply to: loam

“Toxic masculinity” is PC speak for I have no clue what I’m talking about. But to play that game, remember that toxic masculinity has always been raised by toxic femininity. Mothers, teachers, babysitters are mostly female, and they have influence and access to people during their most important days of learning.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 09:37 AM
link   

originally posted by: redhorse

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: redhorse

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bulwarkz

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: loam


Are boys 'broken'? Another mass shooting renews debate on toxic masculinity

After 19-year-old Nikolas Cruz was accused of gunning down 17 people at a Florida high school last week, comedian Michael Ian Black started a thread on Twitter that sparked a vitriolic debate about the role of gender in gun violence. It began with the tweet, "Deeper even than the gun problem is this: boys are broken."

Black's tweet has been liked nearly 65,000 times. In an interview with NPR on Sunday, he elaborated.

"I think it means that there is something going on with American men that is giving them the permission and space to commit violence," he said. "And one of the main things we focus on correctly is guns and mental health, but I think deeper than that is a problem, a crisis in masculinity."



As a parent of a young white adolescent male, this kind of thinking makes me want to perpetrate some toxic masculinity of my own on people who subscribe to this perspective.

What could possibly go wrong with making young impressionable boys feel there is something inherently wrong with them? And let's be clear, it's not just restricted to their sex. The cultural message includes race and sexuality too.

I can't imagine what it would have been like to have been raised in today's climate.

I wonder where we will be in 10 to 15 years from now, when the current crop of 8-18 year olds reaches adulthood after an entire childhood of being told that if you are white, straight, and male (actually you only need to be one of the three to be demonized) there is something inherently bad about you.

Spiting nails over this repulsive nonsense.



The whole whoa as me white identy crisis is rediculous.

It's as much propaganda and irrational as safe spaces and ultra leftist propaganda.

It's snowflake syndrome. How about you fight irational behavior with sanity. Not oh i feel so sorry for myself because I am attacked for being white. Which isn't real anyway. It's a media presentation of radical idiology.

How about teaching your kid about resilience instead of feeling sorry for himself. That would be a start.

You mean, destroy public schools and homeschool your children if you want control of indoctri???, I mean, education


No.

I mean stop whining and take control. Get off Facebook and get involved in your public school and policy. Stop creating a wedge between you and someone who may not think the same and create rational compromises.


I've found that "getting involved in your public school" does not in fact create a circumstance where rational compromise is possible. Public schools are indoctrination machines, and the much of the staff, administration and even those on school boards are developmentally stuck at about 15. They highly resent any outside opinions that differ with their own and use the system to shut them down very quickly. And god help you if you try calling them on their juvenile bull$hit. They'll try to take your kids.


I haven't found that. I teach youth wrestling. Literal resilience training.

I think the point of view you are projecting is a victim mentality.

How about lobby for vouchers where you can put your child in a school with your beliefs?

Or do a better job as a parent having meaningful discussions at night at the dinner table?

Or don't. Blame the left for everything. It's surely a lot easier.


I'm on the left, I'm not blaming the left. I'm not sure where you got that. Weird.

I'm also not sure where you are getting a victim mentality because I am willing to acknowledge why people aren't willing to stand up, or even just get involved. Also weird. If you make too much of a fuss, they will absolutely leverage social services.


As an aside. How on earth do you think that you know what sort of meaningful (or not) conversations I have with my kids?

Do you work for a school? You seem awfully defensive and assumptive. You sound a lot like those folks when I deal with them. Dismissive, condescending, angry and assumptive with even the mildest of criticism.


How do I sound like the people at the schools you deal with?

Could you give an example is or it a reaction to a different opinion to yours? Do you think you would qualify as angry, assumptive, and dismissive?.

Yes I work with kids a public school. I do not work there its for free as a wrestling coach.

I see a whole lot of teachers with a master's degree willing to work for fairly low pay to teach kids. I see teachers as frustrated as parents. I don't see a monolith.

Find your allies. If the school is that bad try a magnet school or something else.

I have moved my children because of safety concerns. It's possible.


edit on 20-2-2018 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 09:37 AM
link   

originally posted by: Allaroundyou
a reply to: bulwarkz

I don’t know how you got any of that from his posts. What I get from your posts is a lot of complaining about others. But that is just my view.

You can have your view. I am a producer. I actually do the things I talk about.
I feel public education has dumbed down the people right along with mass doping from big pharma. I recognize clearly the enemies of our success as a Nation and the progenitors of our downfall. Public schools have completely failed us. We are a nation of stupid.
And big pharma is evil with evil intentions. Big pharma was created to dumb down the populace and keep them sick treating symptoms they mostly create while NEVER addressing the actual problems that created the DIS-ease.

Both entities are dead horses.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 09:37 AM
link   
a reply to: loam

Are boys "broken"?...

What a ridiculous question.

I feel certain that there ought to be another word in that sentence, in order to make it actually sensible, leave alone answerable. Of course boys in general are not broken. Some of them are, but so are some girls, so are some adults, so are some dogs, and some cats, and some badgers and some coyotes. This is not pedantry. It is very important to make sure that we have distinctions, that we do not use casual language when we posit possible explanations for aberrant behaviour in certain individuals. We must be VERY particular in our choices of words, when we speak about subjects like these.

No, boys in general are not broken. But some of them are, and making sure that EVERY broken boy, girl, man or woman is both protected from themselves and others, as well as protecting the public from those broken people, is the responsibility of the government to organise. It cannot be a matter for private health insurers to organise, because that kind of crap leads to kids like Adam Lanza and this Cruz fellow, being permitted to walk around free, when they gave every impression of posing a danger to the public, particularly in Cruz's case.

Now, you could, out of pure curiosity (as opposed to having come to a conclusion on the matter already and be pushing that conclusion as an answer to it) pose the question "Is the rate at which young men are being proven to be broken larger than it used to be?", which is an awful lot more of a mouthful, I will grant you, but is in fact a much more pertinent question to be asking. And the answer to that, is probably not, as it happens.

The reason I say this is that violent crime statistics have been on the downward trend for quite some time, about twenty five years in fact. This means that whatever we think about the actions of a small few, we have to accept that these actions are not representative of the whole, either the whole of the society being discussed, or the gender being referred to specifically.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 09:40 AM
link   

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bulwarkz

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bulwarkz

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bulwarkz

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bulwarkz

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: loam


Are boys 'broken'? Another mass shooting renews debate on toxic masculinity

After 19-year-old Nikolas Cruz was accused of gunning down 17 people at a Florida high school last week, comedian Michael Ian Black started a thread on Twitter that sparked a vitriolic debate about the role of gender in gun violence. It began with the tweet, "Deeper even than the gun problem is this: boys are broken."

Black's tweet has been liked nearly 65,000 times. In an interview with NPR on Sunday, he elaborated.

"I think it means that there is something going on with American men that is giving them the permission and space to commit violence," he said. "And one of the main things we focus on correctly is guns and mental health, but I think deeper than that is a problem, a crisis in masculinity."



As a parent of a young white adolescent male, this kind of thinking makes me want to perpetrate some toxic masculinity of my own on people who subscribe to this perspective.

What could possibly go wrong with making young impressionable boys feel there is something inherently wrong with them? And let's be clear, it's not just restricted to their sex. The cultural message includes race and sexuality too.

I can't imagine what it would have been like to have been raised in today's climate.

I wonder where we will be in 10 to 15 years from now, when the current crop of 8-18 year olds reaches adulthood after an entire childhood of being told that if you are white, straight, and male (actually you only need to be one of the three to be demonized) there is something inherently bad about you.

Spiting nails over this repulsive nonsense.



The whole whoa as me white identy crisis is rediculous.

It's as much propaganda and irrational as safe spaces and ultra leftist propaganda.

It's snowflake syndrome. How about you fight irational behavior with sanity. Not oh i feel so sorry for myself because I am attacked for being white. Which isn't real anyway. It's a media presentation of radical idiology.

How about teaching your kid about resilience instead of feeling sorry for himself. That would be a start.

You mean, destroy public schools and homeschool your children if you want control of indoctri???, I mean, education


No.

I mean stop whining and take control. Get off Facebook and get involved in your public school and policy. Stop creating a wedge between you and someone who may not think the same and create rational compromises.
no just get rid of the problem and what doesn't work
There is no reason to keep kicking the dead horse. It simply cannot be ridden. You said take responsibility but the pointed in the direction of irresponsible accountability to a teachers union that poses as authority


Well here is the thing not everybody shares your view. Half the country identifies as liberal.

Yes unions are a problem. Same as with the police force. However, it's up to parents to educate their children as well. You have the right to put them in private schools or home school currently. A voucher program would help with the cost of private schools.

I hear a whole lot of victims here. How is that any different from those you loathe in the "indoctrination" system.

WOW! Victims? Try survivors!
I am not whining, i am fixing. I have been one to step in and correct the problem for at least 30 years. I fix broken boys that survived public schools. I teach work ethic and critical thought. I take boys and create men. I teach accountability. I did it by first and formost, by example.
But there is a snag. I am finding the millenials are impossible to teach. They simply refuse to be accountable in any way. And that's the high school grads. The "higher" educated after a university diversication mind numbing dumbing down boot camp indoctrination just creates 90% of them life long debtors to loans for degrees that are worthless along with their work ethic. It is as if they all anticipate robotics and AI to do all the work and thought for them.


I hear a lot of whining and excuses for your failures.

I teach wrestling. It's hard. Sometimes I fail as a teacher.

See the difference.
my failures? It might be my poor grammar. I doubt it though. I suspect you are standing too close to the fire is all. You most likely feel you have no choice but to do what you do. It sounds like Stockholm Syndrome with some Munchausen Syndrome combined into a knee jerk reaction to defend life choices.
I feel like the guy holding a towel for you while standing on the beach watching you question what it is I am doing because you think you are a fish and do not realize you are wet.


If it's easier for you to blame others for your failure and the reason you aren't as happy as you could be etc so be it.

I however don't really think it's positive to blame the world for the way it is.

In fact it's easier to have discussions with people who think differently when you when you don't blame and attack them. Maybe you prefer fighting and making enemies?

Liberals have many positive qualities as do conservatives. They need to start talking again and stop blaming.

Damn straight i am in this FIGHT.
Does it look like i am trying to make friend by consoling this evil crap? Am i to look for common ground with the enemy?



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 09:42 AM
link   

originally posted by: bulwarkz

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bulwarkz

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bulwarkz

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bulwarkz

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bulwarkz

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: loam


Are boys 'broken'? Another mass shooting renews debate on toxic masculinity

After 19-year-old Nikolas Cruz was accused of gunning down 17 people at a Florida high school last week, comedian Michael Ian Black started a thread on Twitter that sparked a vitriolic debate about the role of gender in gun violence. It began with the tweet, "Deeper even than the gun problem is this: boys are broken."

Black's tweet has been liked nearly 65,000 times. In an interview with NPR on Sunday, he elaborated.

"I think it means that there is something going on with American men that is giving them the permission and space to commit violence," he said. "And one of the main things we focus on correctly is guns and mental health, but I think deeper than that is a problem, a crisis in masculinity."



As a parent of a young white adolescent male, this kind of thinking makes me want to perpetrate some toxic masculinity of my own on people who subscribe to this perspective.

What could possibly go wrong with making young impressionable boys feel there is something inherently wrong with them? And let's be clear, it's not just restricted to their sex. The cultural message includes race and sexuality too.

I can't imagine what it would have been like to have been raised in today's climate.

I wonder where we will be in 10 to 15 years from now, when the current crop of 8-18 year olds reaches adulthood after an entire childhood of being told that if you are white, straight, and male (actually you only need to be one of the three to be demonized) there is something inherently bad about you.

Spiting nails over this repulsive nonsense.



The whole whoa as me white identy crisis is rediculous.

It's as much propaganda and irrational as safe spaces and ultra leftist propaganda.

It's snowflake syndrome. How about you fight irational behavior with sanity. Not oh i feel so sorry for myself because I am attacked for being white. Which isn't real anyway. It's a media presentation of radical idiology.

How about teaching your kid about resilience instead of feeling sorry for himself. That would be a start.

You mean, destroy public schools and homeschool your children if you want control of indoctri???, I mean, education


No.

I mean stop whining and take control. Get off Facebook and get involved in your public school and policy. Stop creating a wedge between you and someone who may not think the same and create rational compromises.
no just get rid of the problem and what doesn't work
There is no reason to keep kicking the dead horse. It simply cannot be ridden. You said take responsibility but the pointed in the direction of irresponsible accountability to a teachers union that poses as authority


Well here is the thing not everybody shares your view. Half the country identifies as liberal.

Yes unions are a problem. Same as with the police force. However, it's up to parents to educate their children as well. You have the right to put them in private schools or home school currently. A voucher program would help with the cost of private schools.

I hear a whole lot of victims here. How is that any different from those you loathe in the "indoctrination" system.

WOW! Victims? Try survivors!
I am not whining, i am fixing. I have been one to step in and correct the problem for at least 30 years. I fix broken boys that survived public schools. I teach work ethic and critical thought. I take boys and create men. I teach accountability. I did it by first and formost, by example.
But there is a snag. I am finding the millenials are impossible to teach. They simply refuse to be accountable in any way. And that's the high school grads. The "higher" educated after a university diversication mind numbing dumbing down boot camp indoctrination just creates 90% of them life long debtors to loans for degrees that are worthless along with their work ethic. It is as if they all anticipate robotics and AI to do all the work and thought for them.


I hear a lot of whining and excuses for your failures.

I teach wrestling. It's hard. Sometimes I fail as a teacher.

See the difference.
my failures? It might be my poor grammar. I doubt it though. I suspect you are standing too close to the fire is all. You most likely feel you have no choice but to do what you do. It sounds like Stockholm Syndrome with some Munchausen Syndrome combined into a knee jerk reaction to defend life choices.
I feel like the guy holding a towel for you while standing on the beach watching you question what it is I am doing because you think you are a fish and do not realize you are wet.


If it's easier for you to blame others for your failure and the reason you aren't as happy as you could be etc so be it.

I however don't really think it's positive to blame the world for the way it is.

In fact it's easier to have discussions with people who think differently when you when you don't blame and attack them. Maybe you prefer fighting and making enemies?

Liberals have many positive qualities as do conservatives. They need to start talking again and stop blaming.

Damn straight i am in this FIGHT.
Does it look like i am trying to make friend by consoling this evil crap? Am i to look for common ground with the enemy?


Lol,

So you are part of the problem.

Got it.

Hate thy neighbor. Works real well in community building.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 09:42 AM
link   
Well if the discussion of gunviolence can not be about the availabillity of guns this is one of the many, many avenues that will have to be explored.
I have no doubt that the increasing amount of violence in our society combined with the desensitized individual ego operating in isolation can cause lots of damage
edit on 20-2-2018 by Jubei42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 09:45 AM
link   
a reply to: Allaroundyou

Yeah I laughed when I read it, too, lol.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 09:46 AM
link   
Are boys 'broken'? Another mass shooting renews debate on toxic masculinity

Are boys being force to behave ways their genetics and hormones can't allow?




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