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Are boys 'broken'?

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posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 08:03 AM
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originally posted by: Thirty6BelowZero
a reply to: loam

Most of these shooters come from homes with rich parents...


Care to cite where you received this information?

This study seems to suggest otherwise.




posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 08:04 AM
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a reply to: vinifalou

Or if he'd been taught to deal with life's problems. Having parents at home that love you (like, really love you), or friends to talk to that are good influences would have also prevented this. Or really just anyone he kind of looked up to that could have told him how stupid it is to shoot up any place. Dude was almost ready for the military, he could have done a LOT of shooting there.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 08:04 AM
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I'm of the opinion that boys need to be worked. There is so much emotional growth to be had making and earning ones own way, especially in those years.

The further we get into the future, the more we may see these sorts of atrocities.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 08:05 AM
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a reply to: Wayfarer

To be fair the publication date on that study is 18 years ago.
Not sure how accurate it would be today.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 08:06 AM
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a reply to: loam

Well. One of our violent societies will have a few opportinuties to do so later in case they aint broken yet. Just wait until one of the wars on illegals, drugs, poverty or terror catches up on them.

Look at the world we're living in, where is the perspective that young people need to strive? It wasn't all roses when I was growing up already. But this?

Humanity is broken and the stupid apes wont listen in order to fix it. They're busy ordering green lungs straight from the Amazonas delta on Amazon.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 08:12 AM
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originally posted by: JinMI
I'm of the opinion that boys need to be worked. There is so much emotional growth to be had making and earning ones own way, especially in those years.

The further we get into the future, the more we may see these sorts of atrocities.


I don't think people are out there shooting up schools and such because they do not understand the importance of earning one's way.

I think it has more to do with social pressures, which we are just learning about the new online social issues.

Not only that, but I think we have forgotten how to love our children and we do no teach them to love as well. A child that knows they are loved will come home and release their pressures on to a family that cares. That will listen.

A child that does not have that will find their release in some other fashion.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 08:14 AM
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originally posted by: neo96


"I think it means that there is something going on with American men that is giving them the permission and space to commit violence," he said. "And one of the main things we focus on correctly is guns and mental health, but I think deeper than that is a problem, a crisis in masculinity."


Right people.

Just ignore the FACT 99.9% of us white, straight guy,gun-toting' cowboys.

Don't do jack snip to anyone.

There's something wrong with people that clearly make up that snip.


why do you almost always flip into defensive mode instead of touching on the topic can it be one day not your guns and 'straightness' and whiteness...
mentalists come in all shapes and sizes and colors...
but the op is trying to address recent trends., no need to flip it on how you're a law abiding citizen and responsible with your firearms...



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 08:15 AM
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originally posted by: Thirty6BelowZero
a reply to: vinifalou

Or if he'd been taught to deal with life's problems. Having parents at home that love you (like, really love you), or friends to talk to that are good influences would have also prevented this. Or really just anyone he kind of looked up to that could have told him how stupid it is to shoot up any place. Dude was almost ready for the military, he could have done a LOT of shooting there.


I think that's where empathy comes in.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 08:19 AM
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a reply to: Wayfarer

No, it's not just how the last generation feels about the current generation. Any day of the week, a 14 year old from the 1960's was more mature and prepared for life and its problems and could handle themselves better than any 30 year old from today. Many 30 year olds still live with their parents and haven't started a career while most 30 year olds in the 70's already had their retirement planned out and were a decade+ into their career, had a house, and had their own family.
edit on 20-2-2018 by Thirty6BelowZero because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 08:22 AM
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a reply to: loam

I don't think that boys are broken. I think that society is failing them.

I grew up in the Girrrl Power era. Which is fine. I'm a feminist, (which is also fine, although I'm sure many will disagree). Even in the late 90's though I could see where this was headed. It's great and it was necessary to empower girls but too often it was done by denigrating boys and men. That's not only wrong, it's dangerous, as we can now see.

We did not create a social fabric that welcomed both genders and gave boys and men a viable alternative to navigating a world where women are not seen as inferior. We did not teach them how to do that. We just said "You are bad, shut up".

Now, boys have few role models that are successful and actually see women as people, we tell them all the time that they are inherently evil, they have few prospects (education favors females at this point, both in the nuts and bolts of how it is administered and selection) and they are presented with constant mixed messages about how to view and treat women. Respect her, but see her as a sex object because boobs. Sell. Everything.

On top of that, because of government interference (kids aren't allowed to play outside and develop independence and social relationships and even schools discourage close social relationships, among other things), and well, the internet these boys have little genuine social support and few models for appropriate behavior. They do have the internet, and hard core porn, and lots and lots of echo chamber websites where they can vent their frustration and reinforce their anger and belief that the system has screwed them (which it rather has), and they deserve to get laid (which it inevitably turns into because they have no skill set or support for thinking past the hormones), which then serves to further entrench resentment towards women and girls in part because they (again) have few outlets, social support or models on how to appropriately channel aggression.

We are social animals. We need social support. Especially transitioning through adolescence and into adulthood. Boys aren't getting that support. They are just being told to be ashamed, *edited to add* or they are being told to be angry because society and women are screwing them. There is no in between.

Feminism as a movement failed to be inclusive (I'll admit it), and society overall failed to give at least two generations of boys a chance because feminism failed to be inclusive. A cultural/social snap back is coming and it will be brutal and catastrophic for women and girls.

However, your knee jerk response to "perpetuate some toxic masculinity" of your own is not productive and part of the problem. This is why feminism and society recoils and entrenches in an oppositional view. This is threatening language. I know that you don't see it that way. You see it as a joke while you express frustration. But it's a threat. "If you don't agree with me, I would like to hurt you" is what you are saying. But it kind of illustrates my point, one side, presumably my side, is saying respect women and don't be a threatening jerk, and the other side, your side, is saying "I am frustrated and I would pound you into compliance with my world view if I thought I could get away with it". This is not modeling appropriate behavior. I understand that you are frustrated, and even frightened for your son, and rightfully so, but this sort of thing is not the solution.


edit on 20-2-2018 by redhorse because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 08:23 AM
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a reply to: introvert

To that I would say that if they weren't so bored, they wouldn't be spending so much time in an online environment that lends itself to lack of emotion or emotional troubles.

Boys have energy that needs to be spent. Healthily. Work seems to be the prime outlet. Sports, is another but that comes with all sorts of other hurdles. Enlistment is another.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 08:24 AM
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a reply to: loam

Are you aware that most males start watching violent porn at around 12 years old? If 'boys are broken' then one must be aware of what they are viewing.



edit on 20-2-2018 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 08:25 AM
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Anyone remember the girls learning problem issue in the 1970's where they started changing the formats in schools to better educate girls and it worked more girls graduated, more went to college and more are graduating college.

Problem is more boys don't graduate high school, more don't go to college, and even more are not graduating college.
Because the sexes typically learn differently, and when the school room is set to teach one way more than the other someone is going to suffer.

Suicide numbers were up the last time I checked for boys, breaking up of the family unit, parents not being as engaged in raising their children making sure they have a work ethic, and know right from wrong.

Being bombarded with images of how they are stupid, irresponsible , and will assault a woman sooner or later, they are responsible for all the problems in the world etc.

So to sum up to long didn't read;

No coping skills, told constantly they are no good, school environment geared to teach females, failure in school further destroying their self esteem. Impossible to reach standards for most guys to reach for dating (what girls want), as well as being bombarded with an impossible to reach expectation for their potential mate (what guys want).

Eventually they realize everything they were told is wrong and want to lash out, and since they don't have coping skills bad things happen.

Or I could be wrong but that's my best wag.
edit on 20-2-2018 by Irishhaf because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 08:26 AM
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originally posted by: loam
What could possibly go wrong with making young impressionable boys feel there is something inherently wrong with them?

I don't know. Why don't you ask women? We've been doing this to them through religion since, oh I dunno, forever.
edit on 20-2-2018 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 08:26 AM
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originally posted by: Thirty6BelowZero
a reply to: Wayfarer

No, it's not just how the last generation feels about the current generation. Any day of the week, a 14 year old from the 1960's was more mature and prepared for life and its problems and could handle themselves better than any 30 year old from today. Many 30 year olds still live with their parents and haven't started a career while most 30 year olds in the 70's already had their retirement planned out and were a decade+ into their career, had a house, and had their own family.


I could argue that the issues you've mentioned were more driven by external economic factors than by a lack of character or drive (though honestly that's a discussion for another thread).



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 08:27 AM
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originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: introvert

To that I would say that if they weren't so bored, they wouldn't be spending so much time in an online environment that lends itself to lack of emotion or emotional troubles.

Boys have energy that needs to be spent. Healthily. Work seems to be the prime outlet. Sports, is another but that comes with all sorts of other hurdles. Enlistment is another.


Ya, that's it. They are out there shooting people because they are bored and need to learn about a hard days work, or join the armed forces?

BS.

There are other underlying issues and it seems your solutions would be fine if this were the 1950's.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 08:28 AM
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a reply to: odzeandennz




"And one of the main things we focus on correctly is guns and mental health


Why do the usual suspects always ignore what's quoted?



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 08:32 AM
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I think the problem is the psychiatric meds:

"Twenty-seven drug regulatory agency warnings cite psychiatric drug side effects of mania, psychosis, violence and homicidal ideation; 1,531 cases of psychiatric drug induced homicide/homicidal ideation have been reported to the US FDA; 65 high profile cases of mass shootings/murder have been committed by individuals under the influence of these drugs, yet there has never been a federal investigation into the link between seemingly senseless acts of violence and the use of mind-altering psychotropic drugs."

www.cchrint.org...

Sal


a reply to: loam



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 08:32 AM
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a reply to: Lysergic

I think it's more than that (of course it is), when it comes to boys being raised solely by women.

When a woman raises a boy alone, and the father is a scumbag who wants nothing to do with the child, the mother will either keep herself in the drama cycle of taking the father back/ breaking up/ talking badly about the father/ men... and there's a good chance a boy raised in this environment will grow up to have shaky judgement/morals/life choices; or, a mother raising a boy alone and the father is a scumbag will remove herself from that situation entirely, and find a way to explain to her child what is going on with his father without bashing him (the boy knows he's 1/2 his father, so to degrade one degrades the other) and tries her best to keep the child involved with the fathers family if possible...a boy raised by this mother would know empathy, the key to being human.

Then you have the same situation when the father is a great father, but the mother has custody for whatever reason.
Mother raises boy, is bitter about separation from father, denies access, bashes father, etc. Even if she's a "good" mother in other respects, a boy raised by this mother is likely to grow up with no self respect, resenting his mother (which means he'll likely resent women in general) and bitter about lost time with his father.
Or, if the parents are both stable and can "co-parent" successfully... the boy will usually be fine barring other issues.

I believe parenting accounts for much of any youths issues. If parents get help and education... we'd see a huge difference.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 08:34 AM
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a reply to: introvert

This after noting that kids need to release.

The manner can be varied, fine by me, but the premise remains the same. As long as it's healthy.



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