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If Cruz's gun was illegal, would the crime or action have been less horrible?

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posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 05:17 AM
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Listening to these children from the high school chastise the FL congress about gun laws made me wonder about what they were really trying to accomplish with their self righteous rant and attitude that the adults didn't know what they were doing (granted politics is an icky business but there is a reason some things are the way they are) and that they were willful in their actions or lack there of.

So lets say that there were stricter gun laws and he was not allowed to buy that gun. I'm sure a resourceful young man who is internet savvy and possibly street savvy might just be able to find a gun on the black market if he was so set upon committing his act. So if he were to acquire that gun, or even, maybe an AK-47, would the people be any less dead or would the friends be any less traumatized? What would the kids have to complain about then? How poor the police are at keeping illegal guns off the streets? I think no matter what, with this generation, it is clear, that they have the most over inflated sense of self entitlement that has been seen since the sun rose in the east and set in the west (I'm sure there are many exceptions to the rule though!!!) If he used an AK, how would they be able to use the big mean name of the "AR-15" the Assault Rifle of choice. They would probably be so confused that there is another gun that could do this and who knows where that would lead.

Or if he had printed parts of the gun and committed the crime, would the crime have had any less impact. I'm serious about this. When I hear people make a big deal about whether the weapon is legal or illegal, I always think "is that really the most important question to be asking at this point? Isn't the real question WHY?" Whenever they bring up the legality of the weapon, I can always see a clear follow through with some kind of push for gun regulation, either by sneaking in some stats that somehow support gun control (even if only tangentially) or by asking questions like how was this person able to buy a gun with his background (and often it seems an odd statement, so early, as if they have prior knowledge about the persons criminal or mental background which would preclude them from purchasing a firearm). The media is like a program running on a loop and it is so predictable in their shilling or method of disinformation or misinformation (pick your channel/poison) that as so as the topic is mentioned it is pretty easy to guess where the conversation is going to lead.




posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 05:25 AM
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The crime wouldn't have been less terrible. But the likelyhood of him acquiring a gun to perform said crime would



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 05:26 AM
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edit on 20-2-2018 by wheresthebody because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 05:36 AM
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originally posted by: Jubei42
The crime wouldn't have been less terrible. But the likelyhood of him acquiring a gun to perform said crime would


" likelyhood of him acquiring a gun to perform said crime would" ?

What do you mean, the act of him aquiring the gun illegally would have been horrible: - or the likelyhood of him getting a gun would have been less...? I'm not sure I understand your wording.

As for the illegal gun issue. I can tell you that when I was that age, finding a gun was pretty easy and there were a lot of kids that got new guns all the time and would sell the one they had to friends or back to the gun shop - and this was all legal guns and the AR is legal in person to person sales/transfers. Now the black market, which sells guns to people who aren't allowed to buy guns or illegal guns (I think there is a big difference between illegal guns like full auto and people who are not permitted to buy guns), is pretty open in some places online and even if he just bought the one part that needs the background check, he could have bought the rest legally. It seems that guns are pretty available in gun free Chicago and DC, so IDK how hard it would be to find one if you really wanted to do so.


Who are these kids going to berate when they find out that parts of the gun can be printed on a 3D printer and the rest of the parts need no background check in all 50 states! If he had acquired the gun in that manner, printing the lower receiver and buying the rest, would the action have been any less horrible?



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 05:56 AM
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Let's take Australia for example. You can find an AR on the black market. For about $35,000. No mass murders since 1997.

Yes, it's true that if things are banned they are still available illegally. But most people can't afford them.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 05:56 AM
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More than likely, but we’ll never actually know.

I think if “assault weapons” were banned again (like they were from 1994-2004, not an outright ban of having one) that this could would have still shot up the school but probably wouldn’t have killed 17 people.

That’s just what I think, but who really knows?



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 05:58 AM
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originally posted by: GeechQuestInfo
More than likely, but we’ll never actually know.

I think if “assault weapons” were banned again (like they were from 1994-2004, not an outright ban of having one) that this could would have still shot up the school but probably wouldn’t have killed 17 people.

That’s just what I think, but who really knows?



I guess Columbine didn't happen.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 06:00 AM
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originally posted by: projectvxn

originally posted by: GeechQuestInfo
More than likely, but we’ll never actually know.

I think if “assault weapons” were banned again (like they were from 1994-2004, not an outright ban of having one) that this could would have still shot up the school but probably wouldn’t have killed 17 people.

That’s just what I think, but who really knows?



I guess Columbine didn't happen.


It did, and less people died. That was with 2 people shooting as opposed to Parkland.

What’s your point???



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 06:04 AM
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Stop beating around the bush, you know exactly what I mean.
This whole thing is just a numbers game.
Forget the 2nd forget the politics. If you have a situation like you do in the US where there are millions and millions of weapons available to the public you shouldn't act surprised if bad things happen.

You just can't predict when some is going to mentally snap and go on a killing spree. You just can't
You CAN however control the amount of guns available. You just can. But you won't

Thats fine, everybody has their reasons. But let the record show that the killings will continue



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 06:10 AM
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Illegal guns are available in every medium to large city, it's a simple mater of making right the connection. It's no harder to buy a gun than it is to buy drugs or find a good looking hooker.

Even building a rifle or a Glock hand gun, in full automatic at home isn't to difficult, the information is all over the internet, and you can order the parts on line, and buy the tools a Home Depot.

Any shooting of innocents is a tragedy. I think the only way to stop it is to address the social constructs that leed young people to kill their own.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 06:17 AM
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originally posted by: Jubei42
If you have a situation like you do in the US where there are millions and millions of weapons available to the public you shouldn't act


... like you can put that genie back in its bottle by having stricter gun laws that do nothing but deter law abiding citizens.

You need to masivly reduce the number of available guns at the same time you impose the stricter laws or they will have no effect.

Good luck with that.
edit on 20-2-2018 by DanDanDat because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 06:18 AM
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originally posted by: Jubei42
Stop beating around the bush, you know exactly what I mean.
This whole thing is just a numbers game.
Forget the 2nd forget the politics. If you have a situation like you do in the US where there are millions and millions of weapons available to the public you shouldn't act surprised if bad things happen.

You just can't predict when some is going to mentally snap and go on a killing spree. You just can't
You CAN however control the amount of guns available. You just can. But you won't

Thats fine, everybody has their reasons. But let the record show that the killings will continue


We can't even keep drugs out of the schools, what makes you think we could contriol weapons. Right now it AK's and AR's as technically increases it will be something else. We need to look at the reason why kids hate themselves enough to destroy so many lives. Like why is life so cheep in the US today.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 06:21 AM
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a reply to: DigginFoTroof

It was illegal.

He lied on his app regarding his assault history.

The system broke. Throughout several steps.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 06:27 AM
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originally posted by: Nickn3

originally posted by: Jubei42
Stop beating around the bush, you know exactly what I mean.
This whole thing is just a numbers game.
Forget the 2nd forget the politics. If you have a situation like you do in the US where there are millions and millions of weapons available to the public you shouldn't act surprised if bad things happen.

You just can't predict when some is going to mentally snap and go on a killing spree. You just can't
You CAN however control the amount of guns available. You just can. But you won't

Thats fine, everybody has their reasons. But let the record show that the killings will continue


We can't even keep drugs out of the schools, what makes you think we could contriol weapons. Right now it AK's and AR's as technically increases it will be something else. We need to look at the reason why kids hate themselves enough to destroy so many lives. Like why is life so cheep in the US today.


Oh the reason is obvious:

US:

precariousclimate.com...

AUSTRALIA:

precariousclimate.com...

edit on 20-2-2018 by DanDanDat because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 06:32 AM
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a reply to: DanDanDat

That's exactly what I'm saying; massively reduce the amount of guns available, or let the killing continue.

I am fully aware of the red flag that I'm waving here. But that's just what it is. Not about politics, not about 2nd amendment, not about law abiding gun owners, not about mental health issues. This is about statistics causing tens of thousands of innocent deaths a year.






edit on 20-2-2018 by Jubei42 because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-2-2018 by Jubei42 because: reply to wrong post



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 06:37 AM
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a reply to: Jubei42

BS on your numbers.

The majority of gun deaths are soldiers offing themselves. Wanna stop gun deaths, stop breaking young mens minds with war. That takes care if the low hanging fruit.

Then address not so innocent gang bangers shooting each other. Then non gang drug dealers. By the time you whittle it down there arent tens of thousands innocents. And youve ignored the driving issues along the way.
edit on 2/20/2018 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 06:42 AM
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it could be far far far worse with no guns ... maby we should as why the gun and not how to remove it

just look at arson mass murder if where going with numbers well fire is far more deadly and the atacker could be long gone to light another mass murder fire whall the first one still burning



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 06:43 AM
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originally posted by: Nickn3

originally posted by: Jubei42
Stop beating around the bush, you know exactly what I mean.
This whole thing is just a numbers game.
Forget the 2nd forget the politics. If you have a situation like you do in the US where there are millions and millions of weapons available to the public you shouldn't act surprised if bad things happen.

You just can't predict when some is going to mentally snap and go on a killing spree. You just can't
You CAN however control the amount of guns available. You just can. But you won't

Thats fine, everybody has their reasons. But let the record show that the killings will continue


We can't even keep drugs out of the schools, what makes you think we could contriol weapons. Right now it AK's and AR's as technically increases it will be something else. We need to look at the reason why kids hate themselves enough to destroy so many lives. Like why is life so cheep in the US today.


Kids can afford illegal narcotics, they’re not very expensive relative to what a high school kid has. Lunch money can get you high.

Illegals guns are infinitely more expensive and 100x tougher to procure. There isn’t a “one stop shop” for illegal guns. It’s usually just a couple of handguns. So you’re looking for a Sig Sauer and get a 9mm Glock. You kind of just get to choose from the handful (yes it’s like 3-5) different handguns the gun guy has.

It’s obvious by what you state you’ve never tried to procur guns, drugs, or hookers. You’d know exactly how easy and difficult doing these things would be, and that they’re not at all comparable.



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 06:44 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I agree, there are many issues regarding gun related death. But the common denominator is guns and their availability.

So you can try to solve all kinds of different complex social, cultural and personal issues. Or you can just get rid of the guns.
Hmmm



posted on Feb, 20 2018 @ 06:52 AM
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originally posted by: Jubei42
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I agree, there are many issues regarding gun related death. But the common denominator is guns and their availability.

So you can try to solve all kinds of different complex social, cultural and personal issues. Or you can just get rid of the guns.
Hmmm

liberal gun states like New Hampshire have less homicides than more restrictive gun states as California. Your common denominator doesn't add up
edit on 20-2-2018 by whismermill because: (no reason given)




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