POLITICS: PM Blair urges London Mayor to apologise for Nazi comment to a Jewish Journa

Theres a lot of backstory here that people rarely are made aware of.

1. The paper that the Journalist works for is completely Anti Ken Livingstone, commiting lots of space each issue to derogatory stories about the Mayor.

2. The journalist had been bugging Ken for weeks and weeks before, even stooping to taking photos of Ken and his family through windows and printing information about his family that no journalist has any business printing.

3. The journalist had at several times before this one, accosted Ken and repeatedly questioned him, even after being told that no questions would be answered. The journalist repeatedly gets loud and obnoxious when his questions arent answered.

I do not think Ken should apologise - this would never have ever come up if the Journalist wasnt Jewish. The remark wasnt racist, the journalist is deliberately taking it completely out of context and using his religion to bring the issue to the fore, and I agree with Ken that there should be no apology.

Originally posted by RichardPrice
Theres a lot of backstory here that people rarely are made aware of.

Could you please provide a relevant source for this?

[edit on 16-2-2005 by Riwka]

Originally posted by Riwka
If so, the racism in his answers is pretty clear.

Really???

Explain to me how telling someone who is Jewish they're acting like a Nazi is racist...

RichardPrice is right, these two go way back (They worked at the same paper). Do you think he'd spit that out just for the hell of it? Even Tony Blair said that they all get wound up by journalists, do you think he'd be saying that if he hadn't already known Livingstone had reason? He's telling Livingstone to apologise because the guy is Jewish and it's bringing heat on the party, nothing more.

[edit on 16-2-2005 by John Nada]

Originally posted by John Nada

Originally posted by Riwka
If so, the racism in his answers is pretty clear.

Really???

Yes.

Originally posted by John Nada

Explain to me how telling someone who is Jewish they're acting like a Nazi is racist...

Accusing someone - no matter if jewish, christian, muslime, dark skin or whatever - to be paid to work like an Nazi Concentration Camp Gard is racism. And furthermore, it shows very clear this person does not know anythong about the concentrations camps. This is why I like to suggest that he should do a history lesson in Auschwitz Concentration Camp , or come here and visit Yad Vashem. Afterwards, he knwos what he is talking about.

The difference to the Nazi concentration Camps and your Yabba-the-Hut story is, that the concentrations camps have been real. It happend and 6 million have been murdered there.

If said "acting like a Nazi" without any reason to a jew, this has a very special meaning. The Major should be old enough and be teached enough to know, that parts of the family of the reporter might have been survivors of concentration camps. His intention has been to be very offending.

Originally posted by John Nada

RichardPrice is right

If you agree here, please provide a relevant source regarding this special reporter.

But as said before, I am wounderiing whether you are interested in a relevant discussion or just in asking questions like "really?"

In the second case I am not at all intersted to spend answer-points to your story.


Rebekka

Originally posted by Riwka

Could you please provide a relevant source for this?

[edit on 16-2-2005 by Riwka]

Its been all over the British TV media since it happened, including background into the Journalist and his activities with regard to the Mayor. As it stands, I cant produce a bullet pointed source, but I can point to stuff like:

www.politics.co.uk...$7800424.htm

There has been a history of antagonism between the Mayor's office and the Evening Standard, and the paper has produced a tape apparently capturing Mr Livingstone telling the reporter...

and

news.bbc.co.uk...

The investigation followed a series of articles in the London Evening Standard which claimed he had manhandled his pregnant girlfriend Emma Beal after he thought she was smoking.

And on the topic of the Evening Standard and Kens private life:

www.london.gov.uk...

Among other things.

Its also interesting that both Ken and witnesses say the reporter ended the covnersation by telling Ken to 'f*ck off', but this has been denied by the reporter and that part of the tape has never been released

Originally posted by RichardPrice


Its been all over the British TV media

I am sorry, but since I am neither British citizen, nor live within GB, I do not watch British TV media.

The stories in the newspapaer links you provided, can in no way be justified for the Mayor of London to act in such a racist manner and accuse this one reporter to be paid to act like a Nazi Concentration camp gard in answer to a proper and normal reporter-question.


Rebekka



[edit on 16-2-2005 by Riwka]

Originally posted by Riwka
Accusing someone - no matter if jewish, christian, muslime, dark skin or whatever - to be paid to work like an Nazi Concentration Camp Gard is racism.

haha, how so?

And furthermore, it shows very clear this person does not know anythong about the concentrations camps. This is why I like to suggest that he should do a history lesson in Auschwitz Concentration Camp , or come here and visit Yad Vashem. Afterwards, he knwos what he is talking about.

and like I said near the beginning of the first page, if I call someone an arsehole I'm not literally calling them an arsehole and I don't need biology lesson, but this has dragged on much further and it's a concept you fail to grasp so I think I'll wash my hands with it now. As much as it's been entertaining you'll clearly keep running around in circles and I'm pretty tired and ill this evening.

This rag and especially this reporter have been hounding him for a long time, and he told him exactly what he thought of him. No problem there for me, and it doesn't quite have the same impact or ring to it if he said "you are a very forceful and lyingl reporter"
This is opportunist at best and a joke to try and turn it into some kind of 'Livingstone Hates Jews!'

The world's gone absolutely bonkers! The PC Police are everywhere...well...thankfully they haven't completely taken over this country just yet but it's starting to get there...

[edit on 16-2-2005 by John Nada]

I agree with John Nada - today racism and political correctness has gotten all out of hand. The fact that this reporter is Jewish is neither here nor there, the comment Ken made is arguably valid - the reporter is being paid to act in an agressive manner and got in Kens face.

I fail to see how in any way this can be construed as 'racist' as the comment in no way was made based on the reporters race, Ken had asked the question 'Are you a war criminal' before the reporter said he was Jewish.

Im sorry, and by the sounds of this some of you are going to construe my next remark as racist, but some minorities in the current political climate have too much power, and any criticism against them or a member of their creed is quite often taken out of all context and called 'racist'. The Evening Standard is a despicable paper, and yes maybe Ken shouldnt have said what he did, but for the comment to be used and expanded in the way it has shows that in todays climate, if you are white and in the majority, you can and will have anything you say used against you.

How many times have you said 'Im going to kill ' or 'He/Shes dead' after finding theyve done something to upset you? How many times have the police brought action against you for use of threatening language? Why should it be any different when a minority is the aggrieved party?

Ken should not apologise.

Lets see how you react when you have someone following your every move, getting in your face at every opportunity. In any other circle of life, that action is called 'stalking' and is dealt with quite harshly - why should reporters be any different?

Originally posted by John Nada

'Livingstone Hates Jews!'

???

To verify whether this remarks had been racist or not or if the Mayor of London should apologize for his offending comments, it is absolute irrelevant that the reporter is a Jew.

One thing I do not understand : Why is it so important for you, that the reporter is a Jew?

Rebekka

Originally posted by Riwka

One thing I do not understand : Why is it so important for you, that the reporter is a Jew?

haha! Beautiful! Didn't you know? I'm one of the secret nazis that have been infiltrating the board.

[edit on 16-2-2005 by John Nada]

Originally posted by Riwka


To verify whether this remarks had been racist or not or if the Mayor of London should apologize for his offending comments, it is absolute irrelevant that the reporter is a Jew.

One thing I do not understand : Why is it so important for you, that the reporter is a Jew?

Rebekka

Ill answer this for him: if the reporter wasnt a Jew, this would be a non issue. If the reporter wasnt a reporter, this would be a non issue. If the reporter didnt have a political agenda, this wouldnt be an issue.

To everyone else in the world - this is a non issue.

See why its so important now?

I have 2 Jewish friends, and BOTH of them have said that they dont consider the remark to be racist. Offensive maybe, but not racist. And both of them are outraged at the capital being made from Judaeism in this case.

Originally posted by RichardPrice

Ken had asked the question 'Are you a war criminal' before the reporter said he was Jewish.

This are the questions and answers.

Evening Standard's Oliver Finegold: "Was it a good party? What does it mean for you?"

London Mayor's response: "What did you do before? Were you a German war criminal?"

Evening Standard's Oliver Finegold: "No, I'm Jewish. I wasn't a German war criminal, and I'm actually quite offended by that. So how did tonight go?"

Again, Mr Livingstone refused a direct answer. "Arr right, well you might be [Jewish], but actually you are just like a concentration camp guard, you are just doing it because you are paid to."

Originally posted by RichardPrice

but some minorities in the current political climate have too much power,

The racists and fashists?

Originally posted by RichardPrice

Lets see how you react when you have someone following your every move, getting in your face at every opportunity.

That reminds me to the death of GB Princess Diana. Maybe your country has to change the rules in order to protect privacy for public figures?

I have found sources that Mr. Livingstone claims he has been the victim of a hate campaign at the hands of the Evening Standard for the past 25 years , but not any relevant source THIS ONE reporter Oliver Finegold has been stalking.


Rebekka

Originally posted by John Nada

haha! Beautiful!

Didn't you know? I'm one of the secret nazis that have been infiltrating the board.

Well...Thanks, I did not know.

This might be an explanation for your behaviour, but it is no answer to my question.

So, why is it important for you, that the reporter is a Jew?

Rebekka

Originally posted by Riwka

Originally posted by RichardPrice

Ken had asked the question 'Are you a war criminal' before the reporter said he was Jewish.

This are the questions and answers.

Precisely, he just continues on with what he was going to say before the reporter pointed out he was Jewish.

And you keep saying that Ken avoids a direct answer - theres no law that he should answer any of the reporters questions. The fact that the reporter said 'I have you on record' makes it obvious that this was to be used for political capital.

The racists and fashists?

The minorities. Do you know how easy it is to be labelled a racist or sexist in todays Britain? Ludicrously easy, and for no good reason. I cant enjoy a joke with a friend without fear that someone who isnt in the room at the time might get to hear about it and report me. I cant possibly be paid more than the female who does the same job as me, regardless of the fact that Im better at my job.

This is a country where the female automatically wins custody of children during a divorce, if the father wants custody he has to fight for it, and in majority of cases will loose.

This is a country where the Child Support Agency has the power to demand more money from the father than he actually has.

This is a country where entire estates have been made no go areas by illegal immigrants. Immigrants that pass through at least one other safe country before arriving at our borders.

Its obvious that we do not share the same viewpoint, which is why this will be my last reply to you.

That reminds me to the death of GB Princess Diana. Maybe your country has to change the rules in order to protect privacy for public figures?

Diana was killed in France, this happened in the UK. And we do have privacy laws in this country, but its political death to bring a privacy case against reporters.

In general, British reporters respect the privacy of those who request it - for example Royal princes and princesses enjoy voluntary protection from the press until 18.