Mueller Indictments for 13 Russian Nationals in US Election Meddling

a reply to: [post=23153851]sdcigarpig[/post


i believe trump has been compromised

putin probably knows everything there is to know about trump - everything!

trump is probably the easiest person in the world to blackmail, with his porn stars, money laundering past, and his ego!




russia does not have our best interest at heart, but trump hasn't given him a nickname, wonder why. LOLOLOLOL

a reply to: theantediluvian

So evidently Soros can do this inside of the USA since he's a citizen but these Russians couldnt since they weren't citizens. Hmm, how about those rules?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

BLAH blah BLAH blah BLAH BLAH! BLAH!

You use the terms "leftists" and "Democrats" interchangeably and then completely ignore the fact that the Democrats weren't historically the left-wing party.

You're also missing some key facts.

People like you forget that it was DEMOCRATS who for over 100 years tried to stop REPUBLICANS from implementing CIVIL RIGHT ACTS. Even in the 60-70s REPUBLICANS were the ones who kept voting the most for implementing CIVIL RIGHT ACTS...

Well that's not true. FDR was actually the first President to coalition build with black political leadership. He also was behind possibly the most significant legal development in civil rights for black people to that point, since the Civil War (EO8802 which established the FEPC). In the 50's things were reaching a boiling point and following Brown v. Board of Education, there was a big backlash among Southern whites and of course the Democrats were dominant in the South. What you ended with is Northern Democrats like JFK who supported Civil Rights not wanting to alienate the Democratic base in the South. Even so, the Civil Rights Act of 1957 passed with a majority of both parties, in both houses of Congress. (though more Republicans voted for it than Democrats but as with the 1964 act, it got *zero* support in the South).

Despite having voted against the 1957 act, JFK ran for President promising support for Civil Rights and got something like 70-75% of the black vote. His first couple years in office, he was still trying to appease the Southern Democratic base (who are today's Republicans) while maintaining the support of black voters and the reality is he didn't do much but he did a little and I think if he'd have lived, he might have lived up to the glorified image people have of him today. But as it happened, as he was finally being pushed into decisive action, he was assassinated.

Where the biggest turn occurred though was 1964. AZ Sen. Barry "Mr. Conservative" Goldwater (the most ideological important GOP leader for decades), the GOP presidential candidate, had opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964. While LBJ, who ironically is rumored to have had a penchant for dropping n-bombs, voted for it. Because whatever his actual views, he was smart to see the writing on the wall.

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 passed with the support of LBJ, Northern Democrats and a majority of Republicans in Congress. (keep in mind that unlike now, both parties had easily identified right/left wings — thing Dixiecrats and Rockefeller Republicans).

Goldwater's opposition to the Civil Rights Act of 1964 had large implications in the 1964 election. Chiefly, that Goldwater did better in the Deep South than any Republican since Reconstruction. In fact, he was the first Republican to carry Georgia. He also got Alabama, South Carolina, Mississippi and Louisiana. Other than that, the only state he won was his home state of AZ. He lost in the biggest landslide to that point. I don't remember off the top of my head what percentage of the black vote Goldwater got but I'm going to guess it was in the single digits. I know it was less than the 15% or so that Nixon got in '60 (which is the most any Republican candidate has gotten since then).

When the SHTF, and the dust settled, the Democrats had gone left and the Republicans had gone right. Nixon's advisors (and Nixon) knew that after Goldwater, it would be decades before the Republicans would see any black votes and as a bloc, Southern whites were much larger and more important to winning elections.

Enter the Southern Strategy.

Anyway, you clearly could use a history lesson but I'm not inclined to give it. What you should understand is that people who aren't ignorant read that modern GOP-peddled claptrap and roll their eyes. If your goal is anything but high fives from similar susceptible people, you might want care to form opinions from something other than memes.

a reply to: knoxie

I am not sure if the man is compromised. Easily manipulated and nudged yes, but compromised, I am not sure.

But that is what the investigation should show one way or the other.

a reply to: aethertek

The reason why Trump is trying, is that he is a businessman.

If you think about it, it does make sense. If the man is innocent, he can not be removed. And they still get to manipulate him and keep the country off balance.

a reply to: sdcigarpig


he acts like someone who's been compromised, imo.

he won't even admitt to the attack. he's doesn't have a strategy to make our system stronger.

all he cares about is himself.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

The first thing that I did not see anyone mention is: Where did they get this information from? This was detailed information, names, conversations and budget.

There's no indication of where the info comes from but yes, it's readily apparent that they got the goods from somewhere. They're quoting communications between the Russians directly. They've got they hierarchy, dates, details of the training, etc.

The second, after I saw this today, is what sounds more plausible and ultimately may show what happened. If it is what I suspecting, and I loathe to say it, but Trump may be innocent. If this is true, then the man is an unwitting pawn, and the country has been played.

As I've said throughout, I've never been convinced that Trump actively/knowingly colluded. I'm not loathe to say it. Despite my obvious disdain for Trump and my sincere belief that he's horribly corrupt and unfit (and weak of character and a bunch of other unflattering things), I still don't want to believe that he would be a straight up Russian stooge.

That said, I think evidence that we've seen thus far, having nothing really to do with these indictments, show that Trump was an unwitting pawn subject to the influence of pro-Kremlin advisors. FFS, his campaign chief (Manafort) was trying to peddle influence over him and his agenda to the Russians (see the link in my sig). I mean, I think it's reasonable to say that Manafort was actively attempting to collude with the Russians to influence Trump.

That's amazingly bad in of itself.

Add to that Papadopoulos, who it sure seems was being targeted by the SVR, Carter Page who has described himself in the past as an advisor to Kremlin officials, Flynn who seems to have gone off the rails sometime after being ousted as DNI, Michael Cohen and his willingness to hop in bed with the Kremlin (reaching out to Putin directly for assistance with the Trump Tower Moscow deal because Felix Sater told him to, meeting with a Ukrainian politician to fetch and hand deliver a Kremlin-endorsed "peace plan" and kompromat on Poroshenko admin), Rick Gates hanging around long, long after Manafort was gone — and it's not a comforting picture that emerges.

I see Trump as a geopolitical ignoramus, sponging ideas from questionable advisors with questionable motives.

a reply to: theantediluvian

The Trump administration is like a scratch & win ticket...

Scratch off EACH part and find a Russian underneath...

a reply to: sdcigarpig

I don't have to think to about it.

My own associates in that part of the world who do business with the same people know all about the paper the orange anus is under & who it belongs to.

I posted this very thing last year & said then that the finances would be the headlines by this summer & sure enough we're right on schedule.

Actually we're a year, late we expected this to break last summer but hey better late than never.

K~

a reply to: DanteGaland

What's rally nauseating is that re Russia, Trump let his fragile ego paint him into a corner. Even today, does he criticize the Russian government or Putin? Nope. In fact, his reaction is so non-presidential that even compared to his typical self-serving unhinged verbal diarrhea, it's still shocking when you consider that he's supposed to be this nation's leader.

Russia started their anti-US campaign in 2014, long before I announced that I would run for President. The results of the election were not impacted. The Trump campaign did nothing wrong - no collusion!

Objectively speaking, what the actual f? No condemnation of Russia. No apparent concern for Russian interference. Just self-serving non sequitur affirmations. Disgraceful.

a reply to: theantediluvian

where can i find this? oh wait..............

a reply to: staticfl

Thems the rules because they're a foreign entity. I could say the same for the Koch brothers, if we want to do the left-right paddycake song.

I won't say that because the left and right both do it and it's legal. Because they're from America and politics work that way here. They don't work with actual foreign actors pushing a foreign agenda in an election that they have no right to interfere with or influence in anyway.

Just for nostalgia's sake anybody remember some of Trumps greatest hits like,,,

I strongly pressed President Putin twice about Russian meddling in our election.

He vehemently denied it.

I've already given my opinion…..

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 9, 2017

twitter.com...

& who can forget this classic,,,

Putin & I discussed forming an impenetrable Cyber Security unit so that election hacking, & many other negative things, will be guarded..

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 9, 2017

twitter.com...

K~

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
It's pretty much nothing. The worst thing they have allegedly done is stole identities in order to open Paypal accounts. Apparently some employees took a trip through the US in 2014. In terms of election meddling, they bought some ads and posted on social media. It is probably the least effective propaganda campaign in human history.

This is what all the big fuss is about?

Use some logic. If you were Mueller, would you drop your first shot across the bow with everything of value you've got, or would you start with the low hanging fruit?

If I were Mueller, I'd take my time and keep earning my humongous paychecks knowing they can't fire me because I've become too powerful.

This is why we shouldn't have outside special councils.

a reply to: xstealth

Meh, I think this Amy person has the right idea.



K~

a reply to: aethertek

I have a few ideas on what all Mueller is doing and why this is taking a bit longer than what many would expect. The investigation has to be very carefully done. Any mistake and it falls apart.

On a side note, this indictment that happened today, pretty much confirms that yes the Russian's did interfere in the election in 2016. What I think that is a bit more disturbing, is that those in DC that are dragging their feet on trying to stop or protect the integrity of the voting process and the elections. And when they do, will it be too late?

a reply to: theantediluvian

That is what is far more dangerous to the country, is that the man is being used as an unwitting pawn in all of this. That he did not know, or participate, but those who advised him and ran his campaign did, and ultimately this puts him in a very bad situation.

And today's revelations, it confirms that yes the Russian's did interfere. Now here is the thing to look at, would be what happens after this is revealed and how deep it goes.

If the President does not act, or congress, then it may show some complicity on the part of the President. And he would have to explain why he did not seek some form of sanctions against Russia, or even moving to protect the integrity of US elections.

a reply to: knoxie

This is what the investigation will have to reveal. Often the question comes down to who knew what and when. And that is what has to be determined.

The main question now, and hopefully it will be seen next week, is either congress or the president or both, working to not allow this to happen again.

If they do nothing, it will be a signal to other countries, to do this to the USA, and the question is who would be next and what happens if it is from a country that is not so favorable to the USA? Then what, and the precedent would have been set by what goes on now.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

All as you said & the further facts about just how wide the corruption goes.

There are multiple investigations running concurrently, both State & Federal, some are counterintelligence, the balance as with any criminal investigations will be financial.

What we saw today would be the lowest hanging fruit as in, rotten on the ground.

Mueller knows he can't get to those people unless they're stupid enough to get red flagged at an airport, but it lets the other players know he pulling their coats.

There are a lot of threads to untangle but really considering the scope of these investigations (not just FBI, all the Alphabets are data mining) Mueller is moving at a good pace.

There is questions concerning what went on with dark donations to the RNC the NRA & all of their newfound money pits Citizens United allowed them.
Those will take time to unravel as the republicans purposely wrote the law to disguise the money trails of their illicit foreign cash.

But Mueller has the best & brightest at task & he's no slouch, took down some big players back in the day.

K~

a reply to: aethertek

..except he already indicted Flynn, Manafort, Papadopulous and Manafort's assistant... on charges that had nothing to do with Russian collusion either.

That trashes your theory somewhat. Mueller and his team must have spent an incredibly long time on the 13 Russians - the detail they have released in the indictment alone tells us that. All this work and their conclusion is there was no collusion and they have not been able to get close the Trump campaign team in terms of any collusion, settling for procedural crimes and in the case of Manafort something totally unrelated.