Challenge to those in favor of more gun control.

It is real simple, what "common sense" gun control laws are going to actually stop a school shooter?

Quick google shows we have at least 300 gun control laws at the federal level, and between 1 and 13 gun control laws at the state level so lets say about 350 gun control laws in the US.

CNS circa 2008

A study from the Brookings Institution Center on Urban and Metropolitan Policy counts only 300 "relevant federal and state laws regarding the manufacture, design, sale, purchase, or possession of guns." The key word is "relevant."
The study does not include a tally of local gun laws. In fact, the authors note that since more than 40 states preempt all or most local gun control laws, there's no reason to include local laws in a gun-law tally. It is "irrelevant" to count local laws that are superceded by state laws, the authors said in a press release heralding their study.
"The number of laws per state range from one to 13," the press release said, adding that the most common laws concern mandatory minimum sentencing; dealer background checks; "shall issue" laws for carrying a concealed weapon; dealer licensing; and child protection.

I am not even touching on the number of times the shooter illegally obtained a gun to commit their crime, I am just asking for the law that would prevent a school shooter.

Fire away with your best ideas, I freely admit I am biased against more laws we wont really enforce being the answer but I will try to read your suggestion with an open mind.

a reply to: Irishhaf

It's not about stopping all mass shootings. That is a physically impossible order to fulfill. It's about curbing the amount that happen and/or making them less dangerous overall.

For one thing, it is HIGHLY likely that the EO that Trump overturned earlier this year that prevented mentally disabled from getting guns could have been used to stop the most recent shooting down in Florida.
Florida shooting suspect bought gun legally, authorities say

The case of this kid's troubles pretty much shoots all the pro-gun talking points to #.

a reply to: Irishhaf

in THIS ONE INSTANCE, the shooter bought a gun legally. He did have a history of mental illness that SHOULD have been enough to restrict his owning any firearms, but somehow, all that was missed.

So no new legislation could have prevented this. Following existing legislation might have at least made it more difficult for him to obtain a weapon. Bun in the end, would the voices that told him to do this have listened to the "law"?

www.atf.gov...

Here is a site where the form you fill out to purchase a weapon is explained. If this form was investigated properly, and the system that logs mental illness and ties it to the NICS background checks, was in place, he should not have been approved to purchase this weapon.

That is not to say he couldn't obtain one other ways.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Irishhaf
So no new legislation could have prevented this. Following existing legislation might have at least made it more difficult for him to obtain a weapon. Bun in the end, would the voices that told him to do this have listened to the "law"?

Well existing if Trump hadn't gotten rid of it a year ago.
Trump Signs Bill Revoking Obama-Era Gun Checks for People With Mental Illnesses

a reply to: network dude

in THIS ONE INSTANCE, the shooter bought a gun legally. He did have a history of mental illness that SHOULD have been enough to restrict his owning any firearms, but somehow, all that was missed.

Really, what about this guy from the NRA, his display of mindless juvenile violence should preclude him from having access to anything beyond a .177 @ 200FPS & even then he'd probably put someones eye out.

NRATV host smashes television with a sledgehammer to defend Trump

www.mediamatters.org...

K~

a reply to: Irishhaf

Quick google shows we have at least 300 gun control laws at the federal level, and between 1 and 13 gun control laws at the state level so lets say about 350 gun control laws in the US.

Not only, but schools are one of the most controlled environments as far as weapons go.

Goes to show you can't stop somebody determined to get thru the security. And that goes for Military bases, night clubs, movie theaters, hospitals, churches...

The problem more lies with the media. If they didn't sensationalize mass shootings, covering every angle for days and weeks as part of an overall agenda to disarm the American populace... there would be less mass murder going on !

Letting kids spend hours playing video games where the main goal is to blow away as many as possible mixed with a coctail of pharmaceutical drugs could be a factor.
Just speculating.
A lack of education in gun safety could also be a factor.

I am not even asking purely in response to this shooting, I have heard the same talking point over and over and over again... "common sense" gun laws.

Yet nobody will give me an answer as to what this is, what laws are going to stop these shootings.


I had some heart burn with the mental health EO that was overturned, there were cases in the last couple years of veterans that had some depression issues but were being treated getting declared mentally unfit by the VA and the fed came to confiscate their personal firearms.


When you bring a mental health rule into play it has to be narrowly defined, are they a danger to others, are they a danger to themselves or are they just in a tough spot at the moment and struggling but getting help.

If I cant balance a checkbook (another VA ruling that lead to a vet being declared mentally unfit) am I really a danger when owning a firearm?

originally posted by: skunkape23
Letting kids spend hours playing video games where the main goal is to blow away as many as possible mixed with a coctail of pharmaceutical drugs could be a factor.
Just speculating.
A lack of education in gun safety could also be a factor.

Kids play violent video games ALL over the world yet mass shootings are only really a problem here. This isn't the 1990's stop blaming video games on violence.

originally posted by: aethertek
a reply to: network dude

in THIS ONE INSTANCE, the shooter bought a gun legally. He did have a history of mental illness that SHOULD have been enough to restrict his owning any firearms, but somehow, all that was missed.

Really, what about this guy from the NRA, his display of mindless juvenile violence should preclude him from having access to anything beyond a .177 @ 200FPS & even then he'd probably put someones eye out.

NRATV host smashes television with a sledgehammer to defend Trump

www.mediamatters.org...

K~

why are you even here, it that is the mentality you possess? This is a real issue, kids killing kids. Jesus, forget that you hate republicans for one #ing second.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Irishhaf
So no new legislation could have prevented this. Following existing legislation might have at least made it more difficult for him to obtain a weapon. Bun in the end, would the voices that told him to do this have listened to the "law"?

Well existing if Trump hadn't gotten rid of it a year ago.
Trump Signs Bill Revoking Obama-Era Gun Checks for People With Mental Illnesses

Great, we can get rid of Trump. But if you try really, really hard, you might be able to remember that some School shooting happened before Trump became President, so it's POSSIBLE that he isn't the catalyst you want him to be here.

originally posted by: Irishhaf


Yet nobody will give me an answer as to what this is, what laws are going to stop these shootings.

My short answer would be that they won't.
Taking the effect and pretending it is the cause is an exercise in futility.

Pretty simple. Restricts guns entirely in a more severe fashion and it stands to reason gun deaths drop.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: skunkape23
Letting kids spend hours playing video games where the main goal is to blow away as many as possible mixed with a coctail of pharmaceutical drugs could be a factor.
Just speculating.
A lack of education in gun safety could also be a factor.

Kids play violent video games ALL over the world yet mass shootings are only really a problem here. This isn't the 1990's stop blaming video games on violence.

Stop ignoring parts of the conversation that don't fit your #ing agenda. Or is this just political for you?

At the vigil last night did someone drive a truck through the crowd, they would have killed more people then the shooter did two days before. Yet no one who is blaming a gun for the deaths would have blamed the truck. The shooting was the fault of gun access and the truck rampage would have been the fault of the individual. That kind of thinking shows an irrational mind. I refuse to let people that irrational, that much separates from reality, try to lecture me on common sense

originally posted by: Wayfarer
Pretty simple. Restricts guns entirely in a more severe fashion and it stands to reason gun deaths drop.

so restricting weapons will make those who would kill others no longer want to kill others?

Could you explain how that works?

I would echo what others have said above its not about stopping all shootings that could never happen just like no matter how hard you try to enforce speeding laws people still do it. Also I would add that this is not about gun grabbing, I don't think anyone actually thinks a "gun free" America is a possibility or is even something that people would want. Its about putting in place laws and regulations that make it harder for people to to commit mass shootings.

Why not just slap a minimum age of 21 on all gun sales for example.

Why not give authorities the ability to prevent individuals form buying a gun if they have reason to suspect that person to be a danger to others.

Stop private unregulated sales of guns.

kicking the gun lobbies out of Washington (massive one)

Again as mentioned above Trump reversing of the checks of people with mental illnesses is not going to help.

How any of this would work in practice, I don't know, I say this on every gun thread I enter into, I don't know what the solution is only that there needs to be a solution.

a reply to: Irishhaf

If I cant balance a checkbook

If someone doesn't have the mental acumen to perform a stupid simple task like that then no they should not have firearms, they shouldn't be allowed to breed & should not be in any position to make a decision that might effect someone else's life.

K~

originally posted by: aethertek
a reply to: Irishhaf

If I cant balance a checkbook

If someone doesn't have the mental acumen to perform a stupid simple task like that then no they should not have firearms, they shouldn't be allowed to breed & should not be in any position to make a decision that might effect someone else's life.

K~

but what if the person is a democrat?