Pro_Life Violence

Originally posted by obsidian468
Arguing religious or moral points is, honestly, only effective for one thing: starting wars.

I'm going to disagree with you here for two reasons:
1.) If at least one party is open-minded enough to consider the other's frame of thought then serious consideration to their point can be made. Case in point, James and I have been back and forth for quite some time but he has opened up my perspective on a few things. I believe James is right when he says Pro-life violence is wrong and hypocritical. I do not believe he's right saying pro-lifers are killers, hypocrites and psychos.

2.) Wars start when people get angry and/or have an ulterior motivation such as power, money, land, selfishness, etc. I do not have in my Bible a command to go out and kill. In fact, mine says the opposite. Two places that come to mind are Exodus 20:13 (You shall not kill) and Matthew 5:43 (love your enemies)

Originally posted by obsidian468
So, I propose this, everyone agrees to disagree. Nobody is right, nobody is wrong.

That's a counterproductive concession to appease the masses, is it not? We're not making any "noise" here that's a bother to others. I'm not a fan of throwing my hands up and saying "Ah well, we're all going to die eventually anyway so who cares about anything". I'm being extreme in my example, but 'agreeing to disagree' is how it starts. At the end of the day though we differ, I hope James and others know I still love them.

Originally posted by obsidian468
Let's just close this thread, and be done with it. Arguing like children only brings down the quality of posts on these boards,

I agree we should not argue like children, rather discuss and explore as adults.

Originally posted by obsidian468
so let's just shake hands, and end it. A valiant effort to everyone. It's over.

Why? So another thread titled the same thing can pop up in it's place and we can start all over again? I'm impressed with the scope of discussion here and believe it's a valuable read for people on both sides (or sitting on) the fence.

I'm not trying to fight with the peacemaker, but sometimes there is value to these discussions and this is one of them that does.


[edit on 16-8-2005 by saint4God]

See Obsidian(sp?) this is why this topic has gone on so long, people like Saint4God who is more then a blood thirsty lunatic screaming Kill Kill Kill.

Now people like Deesw usually kill these topics cause all they do is rant and rave about how much they are wrong and show how ignorant they are when they are brought to attack the person and not the facts. Thankfully S4G is a great person to debate with for he uses his head not his ignorance.

The love goes right back at ya!

I don't think he actually said Kill or anything. But it is strange some of the things he says just prove your point. It sucks though that people like him are allowed to vote, Bush won, and now we have ID being taught as a science, invading countries for oil, bombing 100,000+ brown people, so sad.

So you are saying that this is a racist war?
How do you figure?

George Carlin baby! "If there is a country with brown people in it we will find it and we will bomb it!"

Or was it Dennis Leary?

Originally posted by James the Lesser
George Carlin baby! "If there is a country with brown people in it we will find it and we will bomb it!"

Or was it Dennis Leary?

This is hilarious . If you only knew my ethnic background and family history. Sorry folks, I'm not fair skinned. Keep the lights turned off and shooting in the dark, you're bound to hit something eventually .

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by obsidian468
Arguing religious or moral points is, honestly, only effective for one thing: starting wars.

I'm going to disagree with you here for two reasons:
1.) If at least one party is open-minded enough to consider the other's frame of thought then serious consideration to their point can be made. Case in point, James and I have been back and forth for quite some time but he has opened up my perspective on a few things. I believe James is right when he says Pro-life violence is wrong and hypocritical. I do not believe he's right saying pro-lifers are killers, hypocrites and psychos.

2.) Wars start when people get angry and/or have an ulterior motivation such as power, money, land, selfishness, etc. I do not have in my Bible a command to go out and kill. In fact, mine says the opposite. Two places that come to mind are Exodus 20:13 (You shall not kill) and Matthew 5:43 (love your enemies)

Originally posted by obsidian468
So, I propose this, everyone agrees to disagree. Nobody is right, nobody is wrong.

That's a counterproductive concession to appease the masses, is it not? We're not making any "noise" here that's a bother to others. I'm not a fan of throwing my hands up and saying "Ah well, we're all going to die eventually anyway so who cares about anything". I'm being extreme in my example, but 'agreeing to disagree' is how it starts. At the end of the day though we differ, I hope James and others know I still love them.

Originally posted by obsidian468
Let's just close this thread, and be done with it. Arguing like children only brings down the quality of posts on these boards,

I agree we should not argue like children, rather discuss and explore as adults.

Originally posted by obsidian468
so let's just shake hands, and end it. A valiant effort to everyone. It's over.

Why? So another thread titled the same thing can pop up in it's place and we can start all over again? I'm impressed with the scope of discussion here and believe it's a valuable read for people on both sides (or sitting on) the fence.

I'm not trying to fight with the peacemaker, but sometimes there is value to these discussions and this is one of them that does.


[edit on 16-8-2005 by saint4God]

Do these Neo-Con Christians ever THINK that having an abortion could save a life! GET OVER IT because the government CANNOT STOP people from having an abortion. There are women in this world that have to have an abortion so that the female doesn't DIE!

Hey Saint isn't some Neo-Con brainwashed idiot, Saint has actually done what they support. Saint has actually adopted kids instead of going to church on sunday screaming "Adoption is the answer! Now lets go kill some smart people." Saint has adopted kids, brings hope to the cause.

Also, while some abortions are done to save the mother many are not. But the out right banning of abortion is like the banning of marijuanna or murder, it still happens.

Uh where did James go? About to Rant at him and he poofs. He not on my ignore list. ANyways....

Neo-Cons aren't usually interested in abortion, they to busy making money. Think about it, make a few million, or worry about what some woman is doing. It's the republicans with nothing else to do but sniff penises to make sure they don't smell like butt(Get it, gay guys and all) and yell about how the end of the world is coming.

you may want to check with a mod if your [Edit] button isn't working.

If it is, may I say that's gotta be one of the most vulgar and slanderous generalizations I've heard in quite some time. Dunno what any of that or the "Neo-Con" remarks have to do with me though. *shrugs*


[edit on 29-8-2005 by saint4God]

I have a theory that many of the pro lifers who advocate the death penalty and other violence are victims of unwanted pregnancies and for varying reasons, didn't have the option of abortion. Now whatever hardships they were made to endure, they apparently wish on others by denying them the right to choose.

But how can these pro lifers say it's murder to abort a fetus then turn around and call it justice to kill for punishment. They cannot have it both ways. If murder is wrong, with the exception of survival, then it's always wrong. So why so much hatefulness in these people supporting the death penalty. What happened to forgiveness and redemption?

In conclusion, I firmly believe these people don't give a dam about other people's unborn babies, any more then they care for those who fall from grace!

Originally posted by dollmonster
So why so much hatefulness in these people supporting the death penalty. What happened to forgiveness and redemption?

I believe you're right on with this point. I'm pro-life...and that includes criminals for the very reason you've pointed out here.

According to the bible a fetus isn't human. It isn't a human until it takes the "Breath of Life". Before then it isn't even property unless you want to fine the person who punched your wife in the stomach causing the miscarrige for loss of Property.

www.mwillett.org...

Originally posted by Full Metal
According to the bible a fetus isn't human. It isn't a human until it takes the "Breath of Life".

www.mwillett.org...

According to the above, by aborting, a person is stopping something from receiving a soul from God? Do you see how this is "rationalizing" a justification for our own wants?

Originally posted by Full Metal
Before then it isn't even property unless you want to fine the person who punched your wife in the stomach causing the miscarrige for loss of Property.

Why does this statement want me to throw-up?

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Full Metal
Before then it isn't even property unless you want to fine the person who punched your wife in the stomach causing the miscarrige for loss of Property.

Why does this statement want me to throw-up?

As far as I can gather he's only repeating what the bible says.. it does not support the pro-life position. I understand why some people are pro-life.. but it seems kind of silly to use the bible to defend these politics when a fetus is deemed property or soul-less till it's first breath.

[edit on 20-9-2005 by riley]

Hey it is evil to me to, why I don't follow the bible, something created by man for man. The only thing God gave us were the 10 Commandments therefor one should only follow those, not all the other rules the church voted on. So sad that reason gays are evil is because the church voted Aye instead of Nay on that book of the bible.

People, the church, power, greed, pride, envy, gluttony, all corrupted the true God of Christiainity. Follow the words given to us by God, not the words corrupt people did.

Originally posted by Full Metal
Hey it is evil to me to, why I don't follow the bible, something created by man for man.

I was referring to the thought of a man punching someone's wife in the stomach, not the Bible. The thought of man, in his sin, thinks this is okay is sick. The reason for law is to try to solidify that "hey, this is wrong", not advocacy for doing it.

Originally posted by Full Metal
The only thing God gave us were the 10 Commandments therefor one should only follow those, not all the other rules the church voted on. So sad that reason gays are evil is because the church voted Aye instead of Nay on that book of the bible.

People, the church, power, greed, pride, envy, gluttony, all corrupted the true God of Christiainity. Follow the words given to us by God, not the words corrupt people did.

Interesting. God directed me to the Book, and to ask Him if there's anything that's unclear.

By the way, I know we're hard pressed to find a Christian bashing thread around here so feel free to go to this one:

Another "Bash Christians" thread

[edit on 20-9-2005 by saint4God]

So.... for a woman to say she wants the right to have sex with someone she doesn't want to have a child with..... that sounds OK to many here?

As for the Baby versus fetus thing..... if you saw the procedure of what is euphemistically called "partial birth" abortion you might have a second thought. By the way, partial birth abortion is a legal procedure, not a medical one.

Welfare is one of the biggest failures in America, and you want more of it?

In 35 years, over 50MILLION abortions. Think of what that's done to the economy...

When someone prayed to his/her creator, and asked "... why haven't you given us someone who would cure cancer, or alzheimers (or ????) and he replies: ".... I did on a number of occasions.. and they were aborted."

signature
**Free Enterprise really means rich people get richer. They have the freedom to exploit and psycologically rape their fellow Human Beings in the process.... Capitalism is destroying the Earth. Helen Caldicott**

REPLY: Hmmmmm the earth is still here. Capitolism and free enterprise has raised the baseline of human existance more-so than any other form of economics. If it's so bad, why are many other countries beginning to follow it? because it represents freedom and liberty to their people.

The "evil rich" are those who have put their beliefs and money on the line to provide goods and services to the people, and provide jobs and wealth to millions.

Caldicott and Chomsky are barking moonbats, who hate America, freedom and liberty, and love communism, Marxism and Socialism (three things which have never worked, and has killed 120 million people in the last decade.


[edit on 17-1-2006 by zappafan1]

Originally posted by zappafan1
So.... for a woman to say she wants the right to have sex with someone she doesn't want to have a child with..... that sounds OK to many here?

No.
Firstly.. you are talking about a woman having the 'right to have sex'

hang on

really [and potentially frustrated]
..and.. 'with someone she doesn't want a kid with'? Do you think women should only be ALOUD to have sex only for procreation or something? What about women who are on a dozen forms of contraception? Have they earnt the right?

As for the Baby versus fetus thing..... if you saw the procedure of what is euphemistically called "partial birth" abortion you might have a second thought. By the way, partial birth abortion is a legal procedure, not a medical one.

deisavu [read the thread please]. It's only performed in 1% of abortions.. and it's a dangerous [for the mother] procedure. Doctors wouldn't do it if they didn't need to. The legal term is not even the right medical terminology. I think it's something like D&E [?]. Anyway.. it's pretty obvious it was political stunt designed to put the spotlight on the issue rather than saving that 1%.

Welfare is one of the biggest failures in America, and you want more of it?

In 35 years, over 50MILLION abortions. Think of what that's done to the economy...

Less single mothers on welfare?

When someone prayed to his/her creator, and asked "... why haven't you given us someone who would cure cancer, or alzheimers (or ????) and he replies: ".... I did on a number of occasions.. and they were aborted."

Or some woman who had an abortion at 15 graduates and goes onto medical school.