Pro_Life Violence

I'm not an advocate of sedatives, but in your case James, there's a tea called - Tension Tamer made by Celestrial Seasonings.



and a Jazz vocal/saxophonist named Mindi Abair .



My recommendation would be to get these two together along with the lights down low and a comfy chair. Inhale, hold, now exhale. Feels good, doesn't it? Alright, I see a smile starting come across that face . This is what being calm and rational is like. A lot of us are either this way or know how to get there in times of anger and stress whether we're Independent, Democrat, Republican, Brazilian, Russian, Italian, Scandanavian or Arabian. So. Let's explore what people are like inside the heart, talk about how we feel while maintaining this tranquility.

Who'd like to start?

Jazz isn't my thing, I'll go with swing or big band if I want that kind of stuff.

And tea is disgusting, go Dew, or chocolate milk.

Anyways, where am I wrong?

In fact, several pro-lifers have been arrested for paying people who blow up hospitals, shoot kids, break in and slaughter an entire family because the dad is a doctor, so forth.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Jazz isn't my thing, I'll go with swing or big band if I want that kind of stuff.

To each his/her own I guess.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
And tea is disgusting, go Dew, or chocolate milk.

It sounds like you done did the Dew and Yahoo a bit too much.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Anyways, where am I wrong?

Well, the blanket statements about pro-lifers for starters. As if one person or group of people respresents another. Simply not the case. Just like I know all pro-choicers aren't as fanatical as you are . I'm kidding! I'm so kidding, it was just a joke.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
In fact, several pro-lifers have been arrested for paying people who blow up hospitals, shoot kids, break in and slaughter an entire family because the dad is a doctor, so forth.

How many is several? That's what I'm saying. 10 people don't represent X-million people. Y? Because Z truth is we're all different. Just because U R pro-l I fe, does not mean U R an terriorist as these people in the daily news P A per are. Trying to group people in order to unite against a common NME is called politicking...which frankly only has a place in D capital. Even then, I've seen C-SPAN and they're quite civ L ized about the discussions and ackn O ledge when peeps are acting in the best N terest of the people. Y can't we do the same here? Or better yet, be more civ L than the crew on cap I tal hill.

When people get extreme with their views is when violence can take hold. I have never understood how some pro-life folks can justify killing/bombing to make their point. I would venture say that sure there are pro-lifers that do not believe in violence, however, they don't make the news.

Pro-life seems to feel that pro-choice is not an option. Either you are for or against abortion with no middle ground. I am Christian and would probably not personally have an abortion but I certainly am not going to play God and pass judgement. We are responsible for ourselves and what is determined as bad, good, sin will be determined by our maker when we meet him. I make my own decisions, I don't make others and don't want others to make mine.

Originally posted by Memorialday1999
When people get extreme with their views is when violence can take hold. I have never understood how some pro-life folks can justify killing/bombing to make their point. I would venture say that sure there are pro-lifers that do not believe in violence, however, they don't make the news.

I would go further to say MOST pro-lifers that do not believe in violence and do not make the news. Now, we cannot research people's hearts, but if you poll the total number of peaceful pro-lifers vs. those pro-lifers who enact violence, I'm sure it would come out to around 1% (or less) advocate this kind of terrorist activities that get so conveniently slapped on most, if not all, pro-lifers.

Originally posted by Memorialday1999
Pro-life seems to feel that pro-choice is not an option. Either you are for or against abortion with no middle ground. I am Christian and would probably not personally have an abortion but I certainly am not going to play God and pass judgement.

Do you feel the people who are having an abortion are 'playing God' by removing a growing lifeform? I agree we are not to judge people, but hopefully we know how to make right decisions.

Originally posted by Memorialday1999
We are responsible for ourselves and what is determined as bad, good, sin will be determined by our maker when we meet him. I make my own decisions, I don't make others and don't want others to make mine.

As a Christian, shouldn't our decisions be based on God and His word though, not our own?

Also, no-one can MAKE anyone do anything legally, and for good reason.

[edit on 22-6-2005 by saint4God]

Your own word or gods... Since god advocates, and several times order rape of women and children, I wouldn't go with either one.

Pro-Choice is pro-life, pro-America, and pro-freedom. Pro-life is pro-brainwashing dictatorship and pro-kill anyone who doesn't agree.

As someone mentioned, Pro-Fetus people think that Pro-Choice is for abortion when it is pro-choice, freedom, and America, not abortion. But christians are well, christians and we've all seen what they do to anyone they don't like. How many Indians did they kill in gods quest for them to own all of America?

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Your own word or gods... Since god advocates, and several times order rape of women and children, I wouldn't go with either one.

Let's talk about that. What verses are we speaking of?

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Pro-Choice is pro-life, pro-America, and pro-freedom. Pro-life is pro-brainwashing dictatorship and pro-kill anyone who doesn't agree.

Hehe. I don't even know what you're trying to say here really. Way too many contradictions in two sentences.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
As someone mentioned, Pro-Fetus people think that Pro-Choice is for abortion when it is pro-choice, freedom, and America, not abortion. But christians are well, christians and we've all seen what they do to anyone they don't like.

Funny how all Pro-Lifers are Christian and all Christians are Pro-Lifers, but let's forego this false assumption so I can ask - what do Christians do to anyone they don't like?

Originally posted by James the Lesser
How many Indians did they kill in gods quest for them to own all of America?

Ah, that had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with President James K. Polk and Manefest Destiny. It was both a political and land-expansionist movement. I say give a few fertile states back to the Native Americans. It's theirs and they should not be forced to integrate.

If you're upset about how Native Americans were treated, you have our wonderful U.S. of A government to thank for that, not any religion.

Verses?
Judges 21:10-24 NLT

Numbers 31:7-18 NLT "They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded....Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves."

Deuteronomy 20:10-14

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.

Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB God kills the victim but spares the criminal.

2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB Polygamy is in this, baby killing, and more rape by gods orders.

Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB

Judges 5:30 NAB

Exodus 21:7-11 NLT

Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB Not only does he order rape, he helps them commit it!!!!!

So, going by gods words not a good idea.

And what was Polk? A CHRISTIAN!!!!!!!!!

Also, Pro-Choice is pro-life, America, and freedom, how is it not?

Pro-Life is all about killing doctors, nurses, blowing up hospitals, burning houses down killing everyone inside, controlling with fear.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Verses?
Judges 21:10-24 NLT

2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB Polygamy is in this, baby killing, and more rape by gods orders.

To answer a couple of these. First off you need to get a KJV Bible and use that.

When reading Judges, the theme of the book is "There was no king in Israel(meaning the people didn't follow God as they ought to) and everyman did what was right in their own eyes". In other words they did things they shouldn't have.

In Judges 21:10-24 No where in it does it say this is what God told them to do this. The Israelites overeacted and almost destroyed a complete tribe. God didn't tell them to take this action. Then after the people had done it they realized that they almost destroyed a tribe and they didn't know what to do. Then it says they went to the house of God and cried unto the LORD God.

But you have to pay attention as you read. God didn't answer them, so they went and took this next action of more killing and kidnapping on their own. God did not tell them to do this.

One misunderstanding of people who don't get God and the Bible is this. They think beacause many sins are recorded in the Bible then that means God approves of it. Wrong, it's in there to show us that if we do things without God we can make a mess of stuff. It also is in it to show us that human nature doesn't change. People past, present, and up to a certain point in the futur,e sin in the same ways. Mankind has a problem with sin, we do it and do it alot.

In 2 Samuel 12 King David slept with somebody else's wife then had the man murdered so he would be free to marry her. Both of these actions David did in private. David saw and felt no remorse for what He did. God was very angry with David and confronted David through Nathan the prophet. Aftyr a little talking David realized he had done wrong. Then Nathan pronounced what would happen as a result of David's sin.

David had a son Absalom who was kind of a brat and didn't respect his father, this was partly David's fault he was like this. In vs. 11-14 God was telling David what was going to happen in the future so that when it happened, he, David, would realize that God knows everything and that even sin done in supposed "secret" brings consequences. In other words everything we do matters, so we have to be careful what we do and we should always seek God and His ways.

In the future, Absalom, was going to undertake a coup against his father's kingship and try to install himself as king. As part of this undertaking, Absalom was going to sleep with his fathers concubines (now David shouldn't have had concubines to begin with. God's plan is one man and one woman till death do they part). Why sleep with the concubines out in the open, so that David could be embarressed and it was meant to show that he, Absalom, had taken over David's kingship. In other words he could do whatever he wanted and David couldn't do anything about it.

Now God didn't not order Absalom, to do this yet future stuff, but God knew Absalom was going to perform these sins. Just because God knows the future and let's sin take place, that in no way means God tells people to sin. We do that of our own accord.

Now the baby that died. Yes, God took the life of that baby. Here is one thing that has to be understood about God. He is in charge of life and death. He decides when someone lives and dies. satan is not in charge of death, we people are not in charge of death, GOD ALONE IS. This should put reverence and awe in us for God. Our actions can cause others to die. But it also should fill us with a sense of wonder and calmness. No one can take our life without God's permission. You could be involved in the most horrific accident, that should have killed you, yet you didn't die because GOD IS. You could be minding your own business at your place of employment when a jetliner smashes through your building and sets the place on fire. I'm talking about 9/11. Have you heard the reports that 40,000 to 50,000 people should have been in those buildings at 9:00 a.m. in the morning on a weekday. Yet no where near that number were killed. God is in charge of life and death. Instead of blaming Him for that you should be thanking Him for that!

[edit on 30-7-2005 by dbrandt]

Originally posted by James the Lesser
And what was Polk? A CHRISTIAN!!!!!!!!!

Did you mean to say "A DEMOCRAT!!!!!!!!"? Because that was what he was according to: www.whitehouse.gov...

Now, nothin' wrong being democrat (though I think the idea of political parties should be tossed to the curb), just saying it's silly to slap a religious label on the genocide of Native Americans when it was a political motivation.

Where's it say he was a Christian again?

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Also, Pro-Choice is pro-life,

Here's the oxymoron again. See, in Pro-Choice, if the choice is to exterminate a baby, a life dies. Now, back to your rant about a baby not being alive and back to my science book that says otherwise.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
America, and freedom, how is it not?

America is about "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". Exterminating a baby is denying the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Of course this has been said over and over again, so I'm not really expecting a different reaction this time.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Pro-Life is all about killing doctors, nurses, blowing up hospitals, burning houses down killing everyone inside, controlling with fear.

I am pro-life. I have killed no one. Take a poll of the number of pro-lifers who say killing doctors, nurses, etc. is wrong. I believe you will be pleasantly surprised at the percentages.

Thanks dbrant for picking up and addressing the Bible quotes. Feelin' the love friend.

[edit on 30-7-2005 by saint4God]

I'm sure, since this thread is so long, that this has been mentioned before, but I'm gonna add my two cents anyway - as a Christian. I'm constantly shaking my head over the fact that most pro-lifers out there blindly support Bush and his unjustified, illegal war in Iraq. It makes absolutely no sense. Their 'culture of life' is completely WARPED. The numbers of children in that bombed out country that are dying daily due to malnutrition, disease and little or no clean water is staggering. The numbers are by far higher than when Saddam was in control, believe it or not. Our dirty little war (since the Gulf War) has wreaked havoc on the children of Iraq. Today's pro-lifers have no legitimacy with me. Most of them are absolute hypocrits.

Praise the Lord!

It has ECK, but their arguement is that it's ok if they kill people, they are pro-life. It's ok to fry people even if evidence points to them being innocent, they are alive. It's ok to commit genocide on the Indians, they were alive. But you try to abort something that isn't watch out they are gonna get you for it.

Don't get me wrong, I personally don't like abortion.. but I'm not gonna force that belief down other people's throats. And people who would kill others b/c they disagree with it are sick in the head. Maybe demon possessed.

Pro-lifers need to get their heads outta their butts and support the culture of life in every realm. Until they do, they are not credible.

Especially in light of the abuse and torture this administration is responsible for instigating.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
It has ECK, but their arguement is that it's ok if they kill people, they are pro-life. It's ok to fry people even if evidence points to them being innocent, they are alive.

It's a like a broken record, that keeps playing, hoping that if it's heard enough it will ring true.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
It's ok to commit genocide on the Indians, they were alive.

By James K. Polk, our Democrat president of years ago, who you've yet to establish as Christian, who advocated this mass extermination. Look, I don't care for political debate, but you're way off course on this one.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
But you try to abort something that isn't watch out they are gonna get you for it.

Let's look at this definition of abort:

Main Entry: 1abort
Pronunciation: &-'bort
Function: verb
Etymology: Latin abortus, past participle of aboriri to miscarry, from ab- + oriri to rise, be born -- more at ORIENT
intransitive senses
1 : to bring forth premature or stillborn offspring
2 : to become checked in development so as to degenerate or remain rudimentary
transitive senses
1 a : to induce the abortion of or give birth to prematurely b : to terminate the pregnancy of before term
2 a : to terminate prematurely : CANCEL b : to stop in the early stages
- abort·er noun
www.m-w.com...

In other words, it means to 'stop' something in process. Pre-mature doesn't mean "not alive", it means before he or she is fully developed. Children are not fully developed. Teenagers are not fully developed. See the pattern?

[edit on 30-7-2005 by saint4God]

Premature or stillborn offspring

WHere does it say it is alive? If you take a one month fetus out, it isn't alive, or two months, three months, or four months.

Also, how many kids have you adopted? I love how hypocritical Pro-Killer people are. "Adoption is the answer!" How many have you adopted? "Uh, lets go kill a nurse!" More kids wait to be adopted then are aborted every year, take care of that problem and you might have an arguement.

Although I do say I know of one Pro-Killer who has adopted kids, John McCain.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB Not only does he order rape, he helps them commit it!!!!!

Where does it say God orders women to be raped in those verses? He knows what's coming when the nations attack Israel, that is what God is saying.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Premature or stillborn offspring

WHere does it say it is alive?

Lets take only one example for simplicity's sake:

"Fundamentally, life is an energy-handling process. What most clearly separates the living from the non-living is the fact that life uses energy to maintain itself. Non-life cannot do this, and – as a direct consequence – passively erodes, corrodes, and otherwise breaks-down."

www.elasmo-research.org...

After that, we'll talk about another definition where a living thing can: consume, grow, and eventually reproduce under normal conditions.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
If you take a one month fetus out, it isn't alive, or two months, three months, or four months.

No duh. If my oxygen is taken away I wouldn't live for long either.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Also, how many kids have you adopted? I love how hypocritical Pro-Killer people are. "Adoption is the answer!" How many have you adopted?

1 (through www.compassion.com... , Disaya from Thailand). How many have you adopted? I wish I could adopt more or full-time. Considering foster parent program too in future after my own daughter decides to go to college or something. It's a ridiculous point really. We know for a fact there are parents who want to have kids and cannot and the cost of adoption is too high. I can give you the phone number of one couple if you'd like to talk to them.

[edit on 1-8-2005 by saint4God]

You did? Wow, congratulations Saint! A non-hypocritical Pro-Fetus person, you bring hope to your cause.

Now if only the other 5-6 million kids were adopted, well, those just in AMerica, not to mention the other millions around the world, like Thailand.

If every Pro-Fetus person adopted a kid there would be none left to adopt and then you would have an arguement of adoption being the answer, but since only 2 Pro-Fetus people have adopted kids.....

How old is the kid? Hope you are happy. I might adopt when I'm older, but not a baby, go with a teen, or several. Teens sitting in foster homes never having a parent to love them, 13-17 year olds being passed around like a hot potato. Adopt them so they can at least have a few years of knowing a true parent.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
You did? Wow, congratulations Saint! A non-hypocritical Pro-Fetus person, you bring hope to your cause.

Thanks ^_^, but didn't mean to fish for a compliment or anything. It's only a small commitment, but hope to be able to do more in the future. My hope is that some people would click that link to see how 'chump change' each month in the U.S. can mean medical help, food, and water to those who really need it.

I'm also a big fan of: www.sundaybreakfast.org...

Awe heck, there's a TON of wonderful causes out there. All the ones I know will let you see where the money goes and the annual report to make sure they're doing the right thing.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Now if only the other 5-6 million kids were adopted, well, those just in AMerica, not to mention the other millions around the world, like Thailand.

I'm trying my friend. I'm trying.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
If every Pro-Fetus person adopted a kid there would be none left to adopt and then you would have an arguement of adoption being the answer, but since only 2 Pro-Fetus people have adopted kids.....

Hey, you saying I don't matter?

Originally posted by James the Lesser
How old is the kid? Hope you are happy.

Disaya is 8, just got done kindergarten. She likes art, singing, and activities like jump-rope with friends. Both of her parents are constantly seeking active employment. They sell at the markets part-time (it's hard to get steady work) and she helps with the housework like the dishes. She got good grades herself and moved on to 1st grade. It takes like a month to get a letter over there, but I got my first one last week. Pretty exciting stuff. Thai handwriting is cool too. I am happy for her and her family, that she's doing better and a doctor visit recently.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
I might adopt when I'm older, but not a baby, go with a teen, or several. Teens sitting in foster homes never having a parent to love them, 13-17 year olds being passed around like a hot potato. Adopt them so they can at least have a few years of knowing a true parent.

Definately agree . It takes a certain type of fortitude though. Teens have a lot going on upstairs and it takes a patient but firm (sometimes) adult to truly help. I'd consider that 'advanced' parenting and being my daughter hasn't reached that level of maturity yet, prolly best if I wait until after she completes it.

You do matter, but why don't all these millionaire/billionaire republicans do something? Democrats are usually new money, like Bill Gates, while Republicans are old money. The kind that have mold growing on their money.

When was the last time a billionaire republican donated a quarter of a billion dollars to something? Bill Gates did that last month. Of course Bill Gates has donated billions over the years, not millions, BILLIONS, to different causes. But sadly republicans think along the line of Rush Limbaugh.

"To be a Liberal you have to think that AIDS can be cured with money. Why should we care in the first place since only Africans and faggots have it. Why should someone like me waste my time worrying about those low lifes?"

Of course, he also called all blacks drug monkeys, and is in court for doing drugs..... SO not a good example. Ok, republicans on Gay's getting Married.

"What's next, people marrying their dogs? People getting hitched to their pets?"

Wait, another bad example since they come out on National Radio about how they "love" mules so much they rape them. politics.abovetopsecret.com...

Well, they are pro-life! Well, except they wanted to kill the Supreme Court for making it illegal to kill mentally handicapped people and children. I kid you not, the republicans, mainly from Texas, wanted the Supreme Court executed on tv because they made it illegal to kill someone under the age of 18 or mentally handicapped. This was after a 100,000+ civillians were fire bombed by them with illegal weapons in Iraq, but they don't count I guess cause they are brown.

Anyways, I know how to deal with teens, I am one!(For one more year anyways, next July will be twenty) Why I said wait till I get older. Again congratulations on your adoption, and glad to see someone isn't a hypocrit. That gets me the worse, hypocrits, why I love liberals. They are for just about anything so them doing it isn't as bad as a republican doing it. A dem can have sex with the same sex, a different race not white, animals, do drugs, so forth because they either agree with it or aren't mind dictators like republicans are and don't care. But a republican? You can't go on about killing gays and blacks then end up having sex with one.