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Pro_Life Violence

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posted on Mar, 17 2005 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by saint4God
Further on you mentioned using contraception is also a sin.

Actually, what I said was that there are Christians who believe that
contraception is a sin. (didn't say that I believed it). Some of that
belief is based on Onanism. However, there are other scripture
quotes and commentaries upon them that have caused them to
come to that conclusion. I'll see what I can come up with for you
as to why they believe that to be true and I'll come back and post here.
I remember reading a thesis (or something like a thesis) written by
Kimberly Haun - wife of a Presbyterian minister, daughter of a
Presbyterian minister - as to why scripturally contraception is wrong.
I'll see if I can google up anything on this and I'll get back to you.



Are not Kimberly and Scott Haun Catholics now? I believe they are converts and are on EWTN frequently.




posted on Mar, 17 2005 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by ufo_believer
Who agrees with me that this world would be a seriously better place if all religions went obsolete? Spirituality would exist but no strict religious dogmas. Everyone could just live in peace and respect eachother's beliefs.


Dude, what the hell are you talking about.
People have been chopping eachothers heads of always, with and without religion.


AND......

NO MORE BIBLES!
NO MORE CHURCH!
NO MORE DIRTY LOOKS FROM PREACHERS!


Pfft, and no more rambling about ufos and aliens.



posted on Mar, 17 2005 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Nope ... I'd tell you that both Protestants AND Catholics did that one!


Interesting. I guess I hear it thrown back at me so much that I was unaware of any Catholic involvement in this case. Was it in the same geographical locations?



posted on Mar, 17 2005 @ 07:07 PM
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Ok, leave the aliens, and the child nursery ryhme out of here, I mean, this is about people killing other humans, not a place for kiddy ryhmes.


Sorry, but people taking an arguement over if life already existing is less importan then life not yet born and making kiddy ryhmes is wrong..... like making fun of rape, you just don't do it.



posted on Mar, 17 2005 @ 09:04 PM
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What the hell it is NOT the same as making fun of rape!!! And since when is this a discussion about humans killing other humans? I think the abortion discussion here is whether or NOT it's a human being.

But the way I see it is this: if you don't have sex you don't get pregnant. That's fair. And if everyone followed that rule evrything would be just peachy fine



posted on Mar, 17 2005 @ 09:46 PM
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I don't get this Onan story...

So, this guy promised his brother and his brother's wife that he would knock up the wife, then backs out at the last minute (no pun intended
), and God kills him as a result. I'm sorry, but if that is how the story went the Christian god is pretty sadistic.

I don't mean to offend anyone, but if God is watching a guy tap his sister-in-law's a$$ and gets mad because there's a money shot, why kill the guy? There a couple of points here that explain my position:

1. All God could have done was pick the seed up off the ground and plant it in the woman. Or, he could have made Onan impotent or sterilized the guy. Even if he made Onan's wang fall off, that would have been better than killing him.

2. Why, in this case, was God so interested in sex when Christianity is a rather anti-sex religion?

3. God is supposedly omniscient. Therefore, he knew that Onan would end it porno style even before Onan did. Yet, he kills him anyway. This applies to every single person as well. If God knows what you are going to do before you do it, why does he punish you anyway? I'm sorry, but that's sadistic. That's like a judge who knows a killer will kill again, so he sets the dude up, watches him kill someone, then gives him the chair or the needle. But it's worse, because God can see in the killer's mind AND he knew the killer's entire life story when the killer was still in the womb...maybe I should stay on topic here.

I heard that some pro-life guy was arrested at a protest because he had a 13-15? week old fetus in a jar. Come on, yall. I doubt that a pro choice person would parade a dead fetus around in order to make their case. Pictures are one thing, but REAL dead fetuses? On a good note, he didn't kill anyone at the protest...



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 04:57 AM
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Truthseeka your overwhelming ignorance makes it truly hard for me to reply.
The christian God is nog against sex (God created sex) and you don't understand one thing of the onan story.

Just begin at the beginning, try to understand 1+1 before you try 5*5, and don't base conclusions on your currently lacking understanding of the bible.

[edit on 18-3-2005 by Jakko]



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 07:25 AM
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It's not my place to say, however I can see the reasoning behind it.


Originally posted by truthseeka
I don't get this Onan story...

So, this guy promised his brother and his brother's wife that he would knock up the wife, then backs out at the last minute (no pun intended
), and God kills him as a result. I'm sorry, but if that is how the story went the Christian god is pretty sadistic.

I don't mean to offend anyone, but if God is watching a guy tap his sister-in-law's a$$ and gets mad because there's a money shot, why kill the guy?


God knows when someone's heart is so cold that it would never change. The guy was a liar, deceiver with no sense of love nor honor and apparently without hope.


Originally posted by truthseeka
There a couple of points here that explain my position:

1. All God could have done was pick the seed up off the ground and plant it in the woman. Or, he could have made Onan impotent or sterilized the guy. Even if he made Onan's wang fall off, that would have been better than killing him.


This isn't God's job to run us around like puppets or robots. This would not make neither God or us happy. We know what the right thing to do is and chose whether or not to accept it. God knew Onan's heart so it seems there wasn't any convincing him otherwise.


Originally posted by truthseeka
2. Why, in this case, was God so interested in sex when Christianity is a rather anti-sex religion?


Christianity is not an anti-sex religion. If that were true, Christianity would have died off as a religion because they'd have no children. There are some people in Christianity who are anti-sex, but you'd have to ask them as to why.


Originally posted by truthseeka
3. God is supposedly omniscient. Therefore, he knew that Onan would end it porno style even before Onan did. Yet, he kills him anyway. This applies to every single person as well. If God knows what you are going to do before you do it, why does he punish you anyway? I'm sorry, but that's sadistic. That's like a judge who knows a killer will kill again, so he sets the dude up, watches him kill someone, then gives him the chair or the needle. But it's worse, because God can see in the killer's mind AND he knew the killer's entire life story when the killer was still in the womb...maybe I should stay on topic here.


When my duaghter was 5, I told her not to touch the pot because it would hurt. If she were wise, she would not have touched it. She touched it, yelled "Ow!" and started crying. I said, "Why did you touch it when I told you it will hurt?" She sobbed, "I don't know". I know though. She needed proof in much the same way a lot of us do. Life is full of lessons. We're not only to learn from our experiences, but the experiences of other's as well. This is the heart of wisdom. God is the God of wisdom too.


Originally posted by truthseeka
I heard that some pro-life guy was arrested at a protest because he had a 13-15? week old fetus in a jar. Come on, yall.


Yes, this is nutz. I do not know why anyone would do this.


Originally posted by truthseeka
I doubt that a pro choice person would parade a dead fetus around in order to make their case. Pictures are one thing, but REAL dead fetuses? On a good note, he didn't kill anyone at the protest...


Glad he didn't kill anyone, but I think you have way too much faith for the people who wave the 'pro-choice' flag. No matter what flag flies over their heads, there are going to be some people who do something so asininely insane that the whole group is negatively stereotyped. Our prejudices help perpetuate this idea.



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 07:42 AM
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Originally posted by Mahree
[Are not Kimberly and Scott Haun Catholics now?
I believe they are converts and are on EWTN frequently.

Yep. What I read was something she did while still a Presbyterian.
(I hope I'm spelling that correctly). Both of them thought contraception
was just fine until she was asked to do a paper and a presentation
at a college defending the Catholic position (which she wasn't). She
did the research fully expecting to come up with nothing, but in the end
she convinced herself that the Catholic position on contraception was
biblically correct. Yes. NOW they are Catholic, but I was referring to
her work done while she wasn't Catholic.



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 07:45 AM
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Originally posted by ufo_believer
I think the abortion discussion here is whether or NOT it's a human being.


Well, he or she isn't a duck or a cow or a space alien ...
the preborn baby is definately human.


He or she sucks his or her thumb, opens his or her eyes, blinks, plays
with his or her toes, yawns, hiccups, and feels pain. Feels pain is true.
Doctors use pain killers on unborn children that they are operating on
in the womb.



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 07:50 AM
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Originally posted by truthseeka
I heard that some pro-life guy was arrested at a protest because
he had a 13-15? week old fetus in a jar. Pictures are one thing,
but REAL dead fetuses?


What is the matter? Can't look at what you are defending?

What is REALLY wrong here is that he got arrested for displaying
a dead body. DEAD BODY?? Okay ... so the court is saying that
a 3 month old preborn baby's body is just that ... a dead body?
The court sees the truth of the situation (the jar contained a
murdered child) when it is against a pro-lifer, but won't see the
truth when it comes to what is going on inside abortuaries.

Which is it folks? Disposable tissue or a dead body??



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Mahree
[Are not Kimberly and Scott Haun Catholics now?
I believe they are converts and are on EWTN frequently.

Yep. What I read was something she did while still a Presbyterian.
(I hope I'm spelling that correctly). Both of them thought contraception
was just fine until she was asked to do a paper and a presentation
at a college defending the Catholic position (which she wasn't). She
did the research fully expecting to come up with nothing, but in the end
she convinced herself that the Catholic position on contraception was
biblically correct. Yes. NOW they are Catholic, but I was referring to
her work done while she wasn't Catholic.


So you're saying that Christians aren't thick-headed, egotistical, 'always right', bible-thumping sheep who do everything THEIR church tells them to? But...but...that goes against everything that a lot people keep accusing them of here on the boards!


[edit on 18-3-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 08:42 AM
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Great reply to truthseeka saint, I didn't manage to stay calm and explain everything like you did.



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by Jakko
Great reply to truthseeka saint, I didn't manage to stay calm and explain everything like you did.


Thanks! It always feels good to get an encouraging word.



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 01:34 PM
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Well UFO, it started out about how people kill people because they think they have the right of god to do so. About how they do drive by shootings on a household because one is a nurse, or how they blow up hospitals(which I provided proof of with pictures) because one room did abortions killing everyone, doctors, nurses, patients, abulance drivers, surgeons, people in the ICR, wating room, everyone else in for a checkup, cough, back ache, you know, regular hospital stuff.



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 01:46 PM
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You can't prove those pictures are real, could be photoshop. That crater didn't look real to me. Besides, weren't any bodies on the ground so it has to be a photoshop. Liberal media at work again.



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 05:52 PM
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No bodies? Well, assuming any parts were big enough to be seen they were probably taken to be identified by the families of the victims...... Not photoshopped. Sorry Jestaman, not liberal media, which isn't liberal....



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 07:11 AM
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Originally posted by James the Lesser
not liberal media, which isn't liberal....

Oh gosh, I just choked up my morning coffee
all over my computer I busted out laughing so hard.


BTW ... it's the Culture of Deathers that are forcing a woman
to be painfully and slowly starved to death in Florida. It's the
Culture of Deathers that euthanize not-so-perfect-by-societies-
measure babies in the Netherlands. It's the Culture of Deathers
that painfully kill millions upon millions of unborn children
(most will feel the pain). It's the Culture of Deathers who advocate
euthanizing elderly people. It's the Culture of Deathers who
advocate assisted suicide for people ... all people ... even those
with curable diseases. The Culture of Deathers have a lot of
blood on their collective hands.

So A FEW pro-lifers get carried away and break the law.
Arrest them. Every sub set of people on this planet has kooks.
I can't believe this thread has gone on this long over an
'issue' that really isn't an issue. There are kooks everywhere.
EVERYWHERE. No subset is safe from them and those kooks
don't represent the core values or core beliefs of the set as a whole.

[edit on 3/19/2005 by FlyersFan]



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by James the Lesser
not liberal media, which isn't liberal....

Oh gosh, I just choked up my morning coffee
all over my computer I busted out laughing so hard.



This picture in my head got me laughing too. I hope your computer is okay
. I think the media plays sides of the fence depending on producers and benefits. I would agree though FlyersFan, the further north and east you go in this country, the more liberal it gets. For some reason it has a 'city' appeal. Don't know why. Just my observation though. I have no doubt there are nutjobs out there like James says. Sorry again James there are these people just looking for cause. Us pro-lifers as a whole aren't really like this.

[edit on 19-3-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 03:30 PM
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Yes, the media is soooo liberal it crucified Clinton for getting a blowjob while praising Bush for lieing about WMDs....... For Clinton AF bombing a asprin factory while saying Bush is god for killing 100,000 Iraqi civillians. So liberal........

Anyways, I can't believe I responded to him, JM is nuts, he is the kind who blow up hospitals, shoot people, so forth. Those pictures weren't photoshopped, they are the after math of a hospital bombed by pro-lifers..... Not so pro-life is it?



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