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Pro_Life Violence

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posted on Mar, 16 2005 @ 09:12 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Well .... not directly. Onanism is why many don't practice contraception.
It's in the old testament - I don't have the exact scripture quote in front
of me so ya'll will have to google up onanism to look it up. But to
paraphrase - God said that for humans to 'spill their seed' would mean
eternal death (hell).


This is interesting. I don't recall reading it (doesn't mean it's not there, but am lacking in photographic memory). I'd be interested in seeing the verse if you come across it. I know in Leviticus it talks about how to take care of the clothing and body should this happen for males. Hehe, imagine if we still adhered to that law with a bunch of guys shouting "Unclean!" when you approach them until morning.


Originally posted by FlyersFan
And since God is the same always, never changing,
when God says that something is a sin and punishable by death and hell,
then that sin is always a sin punishable by death and hell.


I'm down with it.


Originally posted by FlyersFan
That's the thought process behind Onanism. Something that was that big of a sin a thousand years ago wouldn't suddenly become acceptable now. That wouldn't be just to those who went to hell for breaking that law of God's a thousand years ago.

I know the Catholic church subscribes to this, but I also know many
Presbyterians and others who follow this thought process as well.
It's not just a 'Catholic' thing.


Thanks for the information, I never did understand the position on this and your posts helps clear a lot of it up. Here's some addition questions if you don't mind. What about nocturnal emission? What about hormonal age progression? It's easy for a sixty-year old to say how wrong it is with them answering "Sure, no problem", but trying to explain it to a 13-year old makes it a little more difficult, yes? All of the sudden they're living under a pressure head-ache of their daily sinful thoughts. Remembering of course Jesus saying "if your eye sins, gouge it out".

I've intentionally not addressed this issue in the past because I don't see where it is important to salvation from my readings, but if someone feels it is, then by all means let's discuss.

[edit on 16-3-2005 by saint4God]




posted on Mar, 16 2005 @ 11:32 AM
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AGAIN
Pro-choice does NOT mean pro-abortion.. it just means not imposing morals on others.



Question:

Following this line of thought, wouldnt that mean i can be pro-rape (an example), or pro-murder???...i'm OK with those who rape or murder because i dont want to impose my morals/views/laws on anyone...

well i guess i must be a block-head, in my eyes when it comes to subjects like abortion, if you're not against them you're with them...i guess my view is too much "black & white"...



posted on Mar, 16 2005 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by BaastetNoir
AGAIN
Pro-choice does NOT mean pro-abortion.. it just means not imposing morals on others.



Question:

Following this line of thought, wouldnt that mean i can be pro-rape (an example), or pro-murder???...i'm OK with those who rape or murder because i dont want to impose my morals/views/laws on anyone...

well i guess i must be a block-head,

Most definently. There is a big difference between rape, murder and abortion. The fetus is INSIDE someone's body.. I have no idea how it got there.. who it is, how old they are, their mental condition, their health, their finances, their relationships, what their other circumstances are, what impact it will have on their life.. besides which.. you made exceptions [rape, incest, health.. can't remember the others] which means YOU are PRO-CHOICE.. and since you painted ALL pro-choices as murderers.. I guess that makes you one as well.



posted on Mar, 16 2005 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Church says use condoms, condoms will be used.

Now that I think of it, I don't recall the church mentioning anything about it. Probably because the Bible doesn't talk about the relationship between condoms and salvation.


Well .... not directly. Onanism is why many don't practice contraception.
It's in the old testament - I don't have the exact scripture quote in front
of me so ya'll will have to google up onanism to look it up. But to
paraphrase - God said that for humans to 'spill their seed' would mean
eternal death (hell). And since God is the same always, never changing,
when God says that something is a sin and punishable by death and hell,
then that sin is always a sin punishable by death and hell. That's the
thought process behind Onanism. Something that was that big of a sin
a thousand years ago wouldn't suddenly become acceptable now. That
wouldn't be just to those who went to hell for breaking that law of God's
a thousand years ago.

I know the Catholic church subscribes to this, but I also know many
Presbyterians and others who follow this thought process as well.
It's not just a 'Catholic' thing.



So, if you beat your meat you are going to Hell?


This is so funny, I won't even respond to it.
All I gotta say is Hell is filled to the brim in this case...



posted on Mar, 16 2005 @ 01:47 PM
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OK FIRST OF ALL # EVERYONE WHO'D DENY THE RIGHT TO AN ABORTION FOR A RAPE VICTIM!!! If the woman was sexually assaulted the worthless parasite little scum growing in her is not her fault it's the #ing rapists fault! Maybe he should be the one to go through 9 months of pregnancy and then several hours of painful labour to bring the bastard he's responsible for into life! OR what if the woman's life is endangered due to a pregnancy? Is she supposed to risk her own life to bring some sack of cells into existence?! Well I know full well what a catholic response to this would be...those sexist #ers put the baby's life ahead of the mother's. They also believe if a woman who was raped gets an abortion she's going to hell!



posted on Mar, 16 2005 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by ufo_believer
... the worthless parasite little scum growing in her ...


If I were born from rape, would I be 'worthless parasite little scum'? How about if you were? Circustance do not dictate personal destiny. In other words, it don't mattter how you got here. The fact remains you are here. It's this kind of prejudice that perpetuates immigrant violence, genocide and hate. So to this I give a big thumbs down
.



posted on Mar, 16 2005 @ 02:14 PM
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So I don't give a # how evil I sound!!!!! # if someone is here as in already born from a rape that sucks for them but it' isn't their fault... However I see no reason why a rape victim should have to keep the little s*** or have to endure threats of hell for wanting to dispose of it!!!!!



posted on Mar, 16 2005 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by ufo_believer
# if someone is here as in already born from a rape that sucks for them but it' isn't their fault...


Thanks. That answers my question.



posted on Mar, 16 2005 @ 08:24 PM
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Children of rape victims, don't make me laugh, they weren't raped, and they wouldn't have had the kid for they are weak. They would have murdered the poor child for that is what they do.



posted on Mar, 16 2005 @ 08:34 PM
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So what the hell are you saying Jestaman? You think it's "poor child"? I think poor woman for getting pregnant that way. She has every right to dispose of the worthless sack of cells trying to invade her body!



posted on Mar, 16 2005 @ 08:56 PM
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That would be fine, UFO, if all abortions were just from rape cases, but that's not how it is. And it would be almost impossible to make abortion only legal in rape cases. The number or rape accusations would be tremendous.

On another note, for the one who said pro-choice isn't the same as pro-murder, pro-rape, etc., well it is for many people. Many people feel that the fetus is a living being, born to the world with a soul already, just finishing its first stage of growing to be ready for the outside world. Some cultures count age from the moment of conception.



posted on Mar, 16 2005 @ 09:27 PM
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I think he meant that pro-choice people don't go "What you aren't pro-choice? Well, this book written by men who feared lightning as god's anger and thought rain was god taking a piss says you should be pro-choice. What? Still aren't? DIE!!!!" Like Pro-Life.....



posted on Mar, 16 2005 @ 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by Jestaman
Children of rape victims, don't make me laugh, they weren't raped

Something like 1 in 4 women are raped.. are you calling them all liars or did they just 'have it coming'? You are such a pig.

[edit on 16-3-2005 by riley]



posted on Mar, 17 2005 @ 12:51 AM
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While some lie, or some weren't but it is considered rape(drunk girl having sex with drunk guy, it is considered she was raped cause she was drunk, but doesn't matter if the guy was, it is sexist, but thats the world) most rape victims are victims, how dare anyone force them to have the seed in them.



posted on Mar, 17 2005 @ 04:36 AM
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Originally posted by James the Lesser
While some lie, or some weren't but it is considered rape(drunk girl having sex with drunk guy, it is considered she was raped cause she was drunk, but doesn't matter if the guy was, it is sexist, but thats the world) most rape victims are victims, how dare anyone force them to have the seed in them.

If some lie I'd say it's in the minority as on 15% get reported anyway.. and if the the Pig's attitude is any reflection on society's [and the courts'] attitude.. no wonder they don't come forward.


[edit on 17-3-2005 by riley]



posted on Mar, 17 2005 @ 08:11 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God
What about nocturnal emission?

That's not a freely given decision by the person. It's a natural
thing the body does that can't be helped. The person is in an
altered state of conciousness. That's the modern thought.
Some older protestant thoughts considered 'wet dreams' to be
just as sinful as adultry. Now that people understand the
science behind them, they aren't considered as such by most
Christians who believe Onanism to be a sin.

Protestants Against Contraception -
www.catholic.com...

Excerpt (with bible quotes)-

LUKAS OSIANDER
(SIXTEENTH-CENTURY LUTHERAN)
"[Onan’s contraceptive act] was an abhorrent thing and worse than
adultery. Such an evil deed strives against nature, and those who do it
will not possess the kingdom of God (1 Cor. 6:9–10). The holier marriage
is, the less will those remain unpunished who live in it in a wicked and
unfitting way so that, in addition to it, they practice their private acts of
villainy" (Commentary on Genesis).

JAMES USSHER
(SEVENTEENTH-CENTURY ANGLICAN BISHOP)
"How doth a man exercise uncleanness in [the sexual] act? Either by
himself or with others. How by himself? By the horrible sin of Onan (Gen.
38:9), lustful dreams and nocturnal pollutions . . . arising from excessive
eating and unclean cogitations or other sinful means" (On the Seventh
Commandment).

*****************************************************
I only put this forth because someone here said that the bible doesn't
talk about condoms being a sin. Well .... some Christian faiths DO think
it does - Onanism. This isn't just a Catholic thing. I know some protestants
believe it to be a sin - some Presbyterians for example.


[edit on 3/17/2005 by FlyersFan]



posted on Mar, 17 2005 @ 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
I don't have the exact scripture quote in front
of me so ya'll will have to google up onanism to look it up. But to
paraphrase - God said that for humans to 'spill their seed' would mean
eternal death (hell). And since God is the same always, never changing,
when God says that something is a sin and punishable by death and hell,
then that sin is always a sin punishable by death and hell.


Ah that's an easy way of making your point. I don't have the exact text but if you google long enough you may find some loonatics site that explains my point further.
There is indeed a part in the old testament that says "do not spill your seed", but there is nothing about punishment, not even a clearification to what spilling seed means, and last but not the least, it's in the OT, and even though God did not change, the relationship between God and humans did change through Jesus, after the OT.

You may want to go a little bit more in depth before you try to make your point.



posted on Mar, 17 2005 @ 08:27 AM
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Originally posted by truthseeka
So, if you beat your meat you are going to Hell.
This is so funny, I won't even respond to it.

All I gotta say is Hell is filled to the brim in this case.


That is the thought behind Onanism. IF the bible is taken
literally, and IF God is unchanging forever, and IF God's laws
are just (what is punishable by death in the OT should JUSTLY
be punishable by death in the NT), then Onanism is a real sin
and that is why many Christians believe it to be.

(no, I don't believe it is, but I am putting this forth for
the purpose of this discussion)

The Catholic Catechism says that the offical position of the
Catholic Church is that the age of the Onanist and the
maturity must be taken into consideration. That, as well as
the fact that masterbation is an addictive thing. There is some
science that is taken into consideration with Onanism and the
Catholic Church. However, the Catholic Church position is that
using artificial birth control is the same as Onanism and that is
why it is not allowed in the Catholic church and it never will be.
God is the same and never changing. His laws are just and
therefore if he punished with death and hell Onanism in the OT,
then it is still punishable with death and hell now.

So, when you are discussing prolife and birth control issues, this is
something to keep in mind. This is why many Christians are
opposed to artificial birth control. It's part of their faith. Actually,
it is part of ALL the Christian faiths historically, but many have
forgotten it. I say forgotten it as opposed to 'moved along' because
it Onanism has never been officially removed from any protestant
church's beliefs. There has never been an arguement put forth from
any of the protestant churches to justify removing it from their
belief process. It was just forgotten about in many cases.

A couple of articles on this - PAY CLOSE ATTENTION JAKKO -

www.catholic.com...
www.catholic.com...

Excerpt from above article which shows clearly that God punished
Onan with DEATH for 'pulling out' during intercourse and not allowing
contraception to take place.

The Bible mentions at least one form of contraception specifically and
condemns it. Coitus interruptus, was used by Onan to avoid fulfilling his
duty according to the ancient Jewish law of fathering children for one’s
dead brother. "Judah said to Onan, ‘Go in to your brother’s wife, and
perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your
brother.’ But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he
went in to his brother’s wife he spilled the semen on the ground, lest he
should give offspring to his brother. And what he did was displeasing in
the sight of the Lord, and he slew him also" (Gen. 38:8–10).

The biblical penalty for not giving your brother’s widow children was public
humiliation, not death (Deut. 25:7–10). But Onan received death as
punishment for his crime. This means his crime was more than simply not
fulfilling the duty of a brother-in-law. He lost his life because he violated
natural law, as Jewish and Christian commentators have always
understood. For this reason, certain forms of contraception have
historically been known as "Onanism," after the man who practiced it, just
as homosexuality has historically been known as "Sodomy," after the men
of Sodom, who practiced that vice (cf. Gen. 19).


[edit on 3/17/2005 by FlyersFan]



posted on Mar, 17 2005 @ 08:33 AM
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Originally posted by Jakko
You may want to go a little bit more in depth before you
try to make your point.


What I posted was just fine. You don't like it? That's your
problem. I gave the name of the 'sin' and told him to
google it up for more info. That's enough. Go nanny
someone else. I'm not listening.


BTW - bible quotes with commentary are provided in the
post above yours.



posted on Mar, 17 2005 @ 08:53 AM
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Heres some images for all you f##ks that support abortion - I tell you all, any abortion docter that has the misfortune to cross my path will regret it for the last few moments of their life.

Images below are graphic (click the first link)

www.google.com.br...

[edit on 17-3-2005 by smokinjoe]



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