Pro_Life Violence

I'll give it a go....

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
All those people put to death for crimes are vile disgusting humans who had the ability to think unlike a foetus, so paying for their crime by death is a fair punishment, correct? Anti-abortionists for the most part defend the death penalty for these scum.

I don't agree with the death penalty. I guess that throws me into yet another minority.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
Well, those very same scum could have been, or turn out to be, the very life you fought to have sustained and passed through the birth canal oh so many years before. So my questions are:

1)If it is learned that someone on death row was not wanted by his/her mother but was birthed either because of the mother's Christian values or was talked out of abortion by you anti-abortionists, how do you reconcile with yourself that your prior actions are directly responsible for his/her having a life and his/her taken life, and you are now more than happy to take theirs from them?

I'm anti-death penalty as well, so I see what you're saying. There's a kind of double-standard there in my mind too. I've heard the rebuttal but don't find it morally convincing.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
2)If the mother was denied the right to kill a life as you call it, by the anti-abortionists, what right do you have now to approve of killing that same life?

None whatsoever.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
3)If women who "killed a life" are murderers, what are anti-abortionists who sanction the death penalty? The law is no excuse to hide behind, for women who abort legally have the law on their side.

Murderers. Did I win?

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
4)If your daughter/sister/wife/mother is brutally raped and beaten resulting in pregnancy. Do you also demand she birth the child, and if so how do you encourage her to carry this thing to term and you remain a loving, caring parent, and would you want her to keep it?

I don't make demands, but I would advise her to keep the child. It's not the child's fault for these occurences. Hopefully the mother can come to see that and/or love the child for the beautiful individual that s/he is when born.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
5)If you are an adoptee advocating against abortion and you are told that that you are a product of a violent beating and rape by a man or men unknown to your mother, how would you feel about that?

Sad that my dad was a spiritually horrible person, but I'd consider myself to be a different person.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
Any anti-abortionists willing to answer every single one of these 5 questions?

Maybe there will be more *shrug*. I know I've been considered rather unpopular for being anti-death penalty, but reading Amnesty International's reasoning and statistics on the death penalty not being a deterent is very convincing in my perspective. For those who haven't seen it yet, here goes:

web.amnesty.org...


[edit on 5-3-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
4)If your daughter/sister/wife/mother is brutally raped and beaten resulting in pregnancy. Do you also demand she birth the child, and if so how do you encourage her to carry this thing to term and you remain a loving, caring parent, and would you want her to keep it?

I don't make demands, but I would advise her to keep the child. It's not the child's fault for these occurences. Hopefully the mother can come to see that and/or love the child for the beautiful individual that s/he is when born.

Considering that you are a pro-lifer and against the death penalty, the questions were not aimed at you, albeit I say you are in the minority, and would say you are fair. However, You did not address the entire question. Please review.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
5)If you are an adoptee advocating against abortion and you are told that that you are a product of a violent beating and rape by a man or men unknown to your mother, how would you feel about that?

Sad that my dad was a spiritually horrible person, but I'd consider myself to be a different person.

Nor have you addressed this question as put forward.

He did. Look above it. Besides, you are asking people who are against abortion to meet very demanding terms. Maybe anti-abortionists can do the same for pro-abortionists.

Also, maybe we as humans getting more civilized every day have gone astray from our animal instincts. If we evolved from some sort of mindless cavemen, then maybe all people were born from some sort of "barbaric rape" case. Hey, I'm not defending rape here, I guess I'm only trying to make a point that I understand. NM, strike my last comments.

Uh, just because they weren't as advanced as us doesn't mean they didn't have rules. How many dogs do you see raping other dogs? Cats? Birds? Apes? You don't, for animals don't rape, a female goes into heat, males usually compete to see who gets her, and the winner mounts and mates. So to say rape is animalistic is wrong.

Also, cavemen/cro-magnon had rules, they were quite civil. They knew that fighting was wrong, along with killing, and stealing. The had rules, just because they didn't speak english or worshipped the christian god doesn't mean they were raping stealing killing animals.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
Considering that you are a pro-lifer and against the death penalty, the questions were not aimed at you, albeit I say you are in the minority, and would say you are fair.

Wohoo! I think I'll print and frame this. Thanks!

Thanks also steggy for backing me up.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Uh, just because they weren't as advanced as us doesn't mean they didn't have rules. How many dogs do you see raping other dogs? Cats? Birds? Apes? You don't, for animals don't rape, a female goes into heat, males usually compete to see who gets her, and the winner mounts and mates. So to say rape is animalistic is wrong.

Also, cavemen/cro-magnon had rules, they were quite civil. They knew that fighting was wrong, along with killing, and stealing. The had rules, just because they didn't speak english or worshipped the christian god doesn't mean they were raping stealing killing animals.

I told you to strike my comment. But, since you didn't, I shall respond. I've seen dogs rape people's legs, so yeah, I've seen them rape other dogs also. I've seen female animals in the monkey kingdom at zoos try to fight off male monkeys. Maybe you just don't get to see many animals.

And since you were alive to know exactly how cro-magnon people lived, then I guess I have no argument here. But, let's say 3 cro-magnon men compete to take this cro-magnon woman. Now the one that wins is the one that is least liked by the woman, but the man has the right to take her. Now, as nature tends, she does her job, but is unhappy with the man that took her.

Which type of monkey? There is a type of monkey from japan that will only have sex if forced. Scientists say it something to do with small dose of estrogen or whatever and a almost non-existence part of the brain that deals with urges and the need to pro-create.

Also, at least you not like some christians who think before christianity women lived in packs to protect themselves from men for there were no rules or morals about killing, rape, stealing, so forth. Even though the whole greek civilization kinda had rules/laws against rape, killing, stealing..... So did the Roman Empire, which went strong for hundreds of years, until the christians took over, next day, no more Empire.(not really next day, but compared to the loooong life it had, the few years it lived after christians took over was barely a day)

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Which type of monkey? There is a type of monkey from japan that will only have sex if forced. Scientists say it something to do with small dose of estrogen or whatever and a almost non-existence part of the brain that deals with urges and the need to pro-create.

No, that's my wife. I have scientists working on a potion right now to fix this problem. Anyways, like I said before, I am not a Christian, yet I hold many of the same values they do, yet I like to drink and cuss and I do not keep Jesus in my heart. Although I do like what he preaches, he was a very humble and peaceful man and we can all learn some things from him, even if he was just a story.

So, I am beginning to come to a point in my life though where I will no longer argue the abortion issue. The way I see it, those who perform abortions will meet their creators in the after-life, whatever that may be. Then the creators shall judge accordingly. I suppose the good news is that those souls that are not able to enjoy their earthly lives will have done no evil and they shall be judged accordingly, whether it be re-incarnation, heaven, spending time with god, whatever.

Thats another thing, if they perform abortion, and it is killing, won't they be judged by god? Something the bible says is god's job, not peoples? So when someone kills a doctor/nurse/blows something up, they are doing god's job and are sinning. Well, more sin with the killing of people.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Thats another thing, if they perform abortion, and it is killing, won't they be judged by god? Something the bible says is god's job, not peoples? So when someone kills a doctor/nurse/blows something up, they are doing god's job and are sinning. Well, more sin with the killing of people.

Those people will have to answer to god as well, when they die.

Answer to god they will, and be rewarded for defending those who can't defend themselves. God will judge you when you are dead, we will judge those who kill babies while they are alive.

Also JTL, you have said you aren't a christian, so stop using the bible to defend baby killers.

Originally posted by Jestaman
God will judge you when you are dead, we will judge those who kill babies while they are alive.

So you consider yourself above god? I thought Jesus said judge not etc.. who are you to undermind Christ's words? You are the perfect example of a christian hypocrite. You are not interested in 'devine justice'.. only mortal vengence.

Originally posted by steggyDHe did. Look above it.

I bring to your attention the full scope of the first claim he/she does not address with notations for you to follow; “If your daughter/sister/wife/mother is brutally raped and beaten resulting in pregnancy. Do you also demand she birth the child(A), and if so how do you encourage her to carry this thing to term(B) and you remain a loving, caring parent, and would you want her to keep it?(C)” The response was;

I don't make demands,(A) [Is a non-answer given the preface to my questions, as it is a typical open-ended and non-commital response] but I would advise her to keep the child(B) [answered in part, advising is not the same as encouraging] It's not the child's fault for these occurences. Hopefully the mother can come to see that and/or love the child for the beautiful individual that s/he is when born.[C] [Is a non-answer in that this does not respond to wanting her to keep same.]

Further, question 5 was totally avoided relative to answering the question as put forward.

Besides, you are asking people who are against abortion to meet very demanding terms. Maybe anti-abortionists can do the same for pro-abortionists.

You bet I am, because you are asking people to birth the child despite the very demanding terms you lay out. This is not a one-sided arrangement where you get to sit from afar and think you know what they go through. If my questions are demanding, what exactly are your demands calassified as, pork?

[edit on 3/7/05 by SomewhereinBetween]

I would like to say something about pro-choice. Once you have another life insi of you it is no longer just your decision. You are no longer just one person, you are carrying a human life. You cannot say that at a certain point that life is now human, if you do you do not hav spirituality.

You become human at conception. This is the magic of life, it is when the soul and the flesh are conceived. To listen to anything els is playing the game of the controllers to make you blieve you are just an animal that has higher thought. We humans do not have limits as to what we can achieve.

Pro-lifers I will bet are not behind the violence. I will bet it is the pro-choice playing the shell game in order to demonize the pro-life movement. Sure there are probablly a certain percentage of insane pro-lifers that are behind the violence, but it was started by controlling forces to demonize pro-lifers as a way of taking the publics psyche that much closer towards the human animal thought procces and that much further from you internal power of the soul.

Even rape and incest. Look this is a life. Sometimes a person has to have courage, and be a hero and save a life. Not unlike lets say the firefighter that bust through a burning building knowing he/she may be maimed for life or killed, because of the will to SAVE a life.

Here is a quote for you, remember this quote everyday you live for it is what makes mankind above all else. This is what, more than anything else seperates us from animals. Here is the quote:

"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear"

Never forget it!

You're right about question 5 now. I don't think he avoided it, probably just answered it the wrong way. Now that I reread it, I see that. But guess what. I don't lay the laws of the land here on Earth, so it is not by my demands. But life is a journey, full of tests and challenges. So, even the unwanted child should be allowed to take this journey through life and gain whatever experiences the child wishes. But as I have stated more recently, I am not here to judge, that's for their makers. I don't know how their makers feel about this whole situation. I have also stated that I am against using violence to stop abortions and I feel that I am not the only pro-lifer who is against violence to stop it. As I have already received responses that I am not alone.

Code 3 touched another topic here. This is another reason that I don't like abortion. I think that the powers to be in this world are so behind it because it is a form of population control. They don't want us to be too many in numbers, too many for them to control. Make us feel that they are not even humans, I've seen some terrible references to what some of you in here call fetuses. But this is just my conspiracist side of me, which I wasn't touching in this thread.

Originally posted by steggyD
But life is a journey, full of tests and challenges. So, even the unwanted child should be allowed to take this journey through life and gain whatever experiences the child wishes.

Wonderfull stament, life was made t be a journey and it is tough. Otherwise we would just be a bunch of plants tended by a gardner.

We are here for our souls to learn. This is why sometings seem so horrific and some lose faith in our maker. We must help each other no matter what the cost is. If that cost is to have a child then that is the sacrifice fate has chosen for you.

Originally posted by Code 3
Even rape and incest. Look this is a life. Sometimes a person has to have courage, and be a hero and save a life.

And sometimes there is a bruised and battered woman lieing in a hospital bed needing to have the result of semen being brutaly forced into her body removed before she can even contemplate recovering from such a traumatic violation. She has got a right to start the healing process- many would not be able to do start healing until that 'little piece of him/them' is removed.. and forcing her to wait till it's born would be just as deplorable as the rape itself.

Not unlike lets say the firefighter that bust through a burning building knowing he/she may be maimed for life or killed, because of the will to SAVE a life.

Yes it IS unlike a firerfighter. A firerfighter volunteers to put his/her life on the line.. it is his JOB.. rape victims do not volunteer to be raped.. and it is not their job to ensure the survival of rapist's offspring. Comparing rape victims and firefighters only trivialises rape.. but given that rape is something that justifies abortion I'm guessing that was your intention.

The reference to a firefighter was the reference to courage. A human life being saved is something that should be held above all else. The mind DOES heal. the dead baby does not.

Rape is a horrible thing, but killing an unborn child is worst. Even is it is the offspring of the offending rapist.

LIFE IS NOT EASY.

Somtimes a person weather they volunteered or were chosen by fate, needs to do the right thing. omething this world seems to have forgotten. Was the soldier that was drafted into WW2 a volunteer? Did that drafted person do the right thing in the face of German pillboxes and flamethowers and lots of things that are wost than rape?

LIFE IS NOT EASY.

We must do what is right. No matter what wrong has been done to us.

"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear"

Originally posted by James the Lesser
LadyV, abortion as BC is a myth.

Oh, you think so? I knew more than one girl that had multiple abortions in high school alone. It may not be common, but there are women out there that have convinced themselves that it's just a "lump of cells", what-ev. I personally have known many girls that are more worried about catching a VD then getting knocked up. Maybe not the majority, but there are some pretty messed up people in this country now-a-days.

I find it funny that most of you "enlightened" people take ending a life before it can begin so lightly. Like it's a silly joke the evil Christians believe. Not everything can be pigeonholed. Although I wish Christians would take the "rights of the unborn" route - too many valid arguments are written off due to religious scoffing (ie: :@@.

Life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness for everyone - unless your mother was just being irresponsible.

I wonder how many of us were accidents or had irresponsible parents.