The conversation that needs to happen.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: strongfp


Mass shootings weren't really a thing until one technology became mainstream.

The internet.

Just some food for thoought.

Ten of the worst occurred before the ubiquity of social media.

but we all know the names of the big ones. they were made to be household names, and even "heroes" to those who would think like them. yet another aspect of this to ponder.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Peeple


Yes, because he/we are Masons.

That's so freaking awesome this was exactly the answer I was going for. You Mason are very transparent.

a reply to: network dude

America has had guns since it was called America. So what has changed?

Ask yourself, who are these people committing mass murder?

The mentally ill?
Criminal low lifes?

The common denominator is, it's our neighbors. People from our own community. We stopped caring for each other.

You never have to leave the house nowadays as long as you have internet so F- the outside world.

It's all become service to self. We've lost our way.

You wanna stop mass shootings?

Let's focus on fighting homelessness, cutting back the number of single parent households and obese Americans.

When we care about those topics enough to want to change ourselves, this issue of the weekly Columbine will phaze out a bit.

But in order to get that to happen, it isn't going to come from more legislature, people are going to have to get involved with each other to want to live in a healthy environment together.

a reply to: network dude

I remember my childhood in the 70s/80s as well. Channels on our tv were limited. Families actually did things together for the fun. Time spent with extended family members and neighbors. Photos were taken but were not the focus of the fun.

When you needed someone to talk to...you had a variety of options. You could not hide your emotions as well, since so many would easily recognize something was off with you.

Nowadays, so many are more isolated. Kids come home from school and entertain themselves in their virtual worlds. Parents come home from work seeking escapement as well. They see no reason to go visit extended family since they can simply share online. Thus, reality is replaced with a faux pseudo version of truly understanding and knowing.

Unfortunately, understanding that the breakdown of the sense of real family and community is a big contributor...does not offer any easy band aid solutions. One can see that many factors has created this. Material things are not necessary responsible, but the idealism and value placed on it. We have created a society that divides the sovereign family structure.

My grandchildren impress me with their knowledge of technology, but they see the world through an instant gratification lens. They get frustrated easily when I tell them things take time. Obviously, technology can be helpful and entertaining, we as a society do need more of a balance though or future generations will really lose it and not know how to handle the real world. The real world cannot be controlled with a simple swipe and has its own cycles of time.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: network dude


We need to change the way we teach and raise our children.

They have no coping skills. They have no problem-solving skills.

Some respond in a juvenile manner with adult tools.

They have been coddled and trophied since birth so when they encounter the harsh realities of the real world or run into issues that are hard, they react disproportionately.

Life is hard. Life is tough.

But no solution to a problem should ever include shooting up a school.

Sometimes the problem is screaming out for attention, time to take serious heed of the warning signs...

a reply to: Sublimecraft

all this government surveillance and all we can do with it is spy on our political opposition......
you know cause getting elected/reelected is all that is really important

a reply to: SecretsoftheBlueApples


i think there are likely many reasons for these things happening. but i strongly think that these drugs like SSRI's play a big part in them. they may help some people. but in others it can make them truly dangerous. they may even start off helping, but in the end causing the same people to become dangerous.

being on SSRI's is rather strange. you end up being purely a spectator to your actions. it's almost like you are watching a movie, and are seemingly powerless to stop yourself. rather like yelling at person in a movie not to open that door. but of course they do so, because they can not here you. even when you know what you are doing is wrong, you lack the power to stop yourself. or adversely to make yourself do something that you know you need to do. it's like you are just along for the ride. and having no control of yourself. even worse, you become highly suggestable, and may even act out, without being able to stop yourself, even to a suggestion someone makes as a joke. you will even do this when the person is not someone you respect or value the opinion of, before you were put on the drug. or a situation you can normally laugh at, like that jerk cutting you off. becomes a reason to try to kill them. and just trying to speak too a doctor about what is going on is almost impossible, since you do not have enough control to make yourself do so. you virtually find yourself trying to fight for control of your actions. in all seriousness, anyone taking these dangerous meds should always be in the care of doctors, in a controlled environment so you can not hurt yourself or others.

originally posted by: network dude
but we all know the names of the big ones. they were made to be household names, and even "heroes" to those who would think like them. yet another aspect of this to ponder.

Like Columbine or Virginia Tech? Those predate the ubiquity of social media. Having an iPhone back (2007) then was a big deal and the big media platforms were just getting started.

That's not even counting the ones that were household names like the McDonald's massacre of the ones that led to people using the phrase 'going postal'.

It isn't social media, although it is part of the issue, it's a combination of many factors.

One of the big problem is there's no love and no sense of community. Children almost never see their parents, and their parents never saw their parents growing up. No one knows their neighbors, and most kids are thrown in front of a screen and never interact with their community outside their door. Everyone is so distant from each other in any real sense that it's hard to really connect to each other as people. Both mom and dad work all the time just to put bread on the table, when they get home they're too exhausted to do anything and as the second generation of this wouldn't know what to do anyway.

Kids are plunked in front of screens, and are never really allowed to go out and play, adult supervision is mandatory at all times now until kids are practically adults so kids get almost no experience thinking on their own while young. They are raised by schools and day cares where they are just a face, where there is no real love. As such they never learn how to really love, in fact their brains are forced to rewire to adapt to that lack of love that's so necessary at that age to become a healthy adult.

No one knows their neighbors, there's no neighborhood barbecues or get togethers, everyone is so busy and closed off they never interact in such ways. As a result there's no sense of community, no one has any real sense of being part of something. This is true for adults and kids. The kids being trapped because adult supervision is mandatory just to go outside and interact in ones own neighborhood, which restricts the child's ability to explore and interact on their own.

I could go on, but I need to head to work.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus


It isn't social media, although it is part of the issue, it's a combination of many factors.

I think that is the key here, and also the most frightening aspect. We as a society have gotten so used to "instant fixes", that when faced with something this challenging, we don't know how to deal with it, so we punt.

I am humbled and thankful for all the wisdom that exists in the replies here. I wish this concept could expand past ATS.

originally posted by: network dude
Empathy. Without it, taking life indiscriminately is easy. You need not have any guilt, any sadness, no feelings at all, but satisfaction. We have moved away from caring about others to such a degree that some of us not only possess the ability to kill, we are excited by the opportunity. That is a sickness.

You can't have a war culture if people have empathy. This country is a product of the military industrial complex propaganda. There's a reason why Republicans control every level of government from local to the presidency and all the judges are corrupt for the corps. The common Joe of this country is the lowest priority, hence mass shootings.

a reply to: network dude

Here's my thoughts:

In this instance (i haven't looked at prior instances with the lens of my current distrust of the FBI) we see that the FBI was contacted about his threat. He was never contacted by the FBI, although the personw ho reported it was.

The behavior of the FBI in other cases, such as in Dallas, is questionable.

What, exactly, does the FBI do again, besides entrap mentally challenged muslim boys?

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: network dude

Here's my thoughts:

In this instance (i haven't looked at prior instances with the lens of my current distrust of the FBI) we see that the FBI was contacted about his threat. He was never contacted by the FBI, although the personw ho reported it was.

The behavior of the FBI in other cases, such as in Dallas, is questionable.

What, exactly, does the FBI do again, besides entrap mentally challenged muslim boys?

**CAUTION - SOURCE IS UNRELIABLE**

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: MostlyReading

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: network dude

Mass shootings weren't really a thing until one technology became mainstream.

The internet.

Just some food for thoought.

Fact is that the internet is available for people all over the world. Still, the US is the only country where these school shootings or other mass shootings happen on a regular basis, once a week or so, based on the numbers and statistics I've seen.

Makes little sense to blame the internet for the senseless killings, IMO.

but we need to look at all aspects of the change that led to this kind of "normal".

I understand but a glaring and undeniable aspect of this is still that these mass shootings do not happen "routinely" in other countries. So blaming the internet or social media is just... weird. A poor excuse. Pesonally I think these mass shootings will continue to happen as long as so many Americans are in love with their guns. That is not "normal" in other countries either, and you know what they say about love. It makes you blind...

I live in a Scandinavian country (that is as much personal info I am willing to give on an open forum), and I can ensure you that here, if you had guns stashed around your house, people would assume that you are either a criminal or insane. I'm sorry it that hurts some Americans' feelings, it's just a fact.

And with that, let the "shut up, you person from small country that can not be compared to the US cause sumthing, you have no right to speak, you furriner, and muh American rights, etc. etc." posts begin. I'll get some work done now and come back later and take my beatings.

a reply to: network dude

What you seem to be talking about is that the value of human life is not instilled in our culture anymore--without understanding the value that human life has, how can one be expected to have empathy.

Contrary to the seeming belief of some on this site, I suffer from an overabundance of empathy. Every time that I hear about a terrible situation affecting people, especially young, innocent people (and the elderly), it affects me to my core and it makes me lose it emotionally almost every time IF I allow myself to dwell on the issue.

But no one is taught to actually THINK about things anymore (including, but not limited to, the value of human life), and so there is no dwelling on tragedies that happen. Many people think that typing out the words "thoughts and prayers" or something equivalent absolves them of the duty to truly consider what may have just happened.

This leads into what DBCowboy said in the first response to this OP: Without critical thought put into things like this, people don't understand how do deal with inevitable life situations, emotionally and/or physically. We are looking at societies (plural, because not all societies in America are the same) where over-protective rules and regulation are increasingly producing human beings who do not have the life skills to constructively handle personal issues, and we're at a point where that includes many adults as well.

You are correct in saying that this discussion needs to happen, but I certainly don't believing that dumbing down our protected freedoms to compensate for a generation of people who are unable to cope with life's adversities is the appropriate way to go. We have been chipping away at our nation's standards for decades, and the empirical evidence shows that it's not doing anything positive.

Yes, killing just needs to stop, but if you're being honest, you will admit that this hope is an impossibility. As the Cain/Abel story even references, there wasn't even one generation removed from Adam and Eve before murder was a thing. Unfortunately, violence and killing is a known part of human nature, and there are no laws, rules, regulations, or limiting of rights that will change that.

The superintendent of that school district was right in referencing mental health as being a big part of this problem--probably the core issue--and until we are willing to accept the catalysts causing the increased problem with mental health in this country, we are trying to put a Band-Aid on a severed carotid. I'm more than happy to talk rationally and constructively about this issue, but sadly, most are not able to rationalize their discussions through logical approaches, and so it makes it nearly impossible. (see the point about people not being taught to think critically anymore for a reason why that is)

ETA:

originally posted by: network dude

We as a society have gotten so used to "instant fixes", that when faced with something this challenging, we don't know how to deal with it, so we punt.

Exactly, and this is a point that I've made uncountable times talking about modern society's inability to handle complex issues...hell, even its inability to handle small issues, at this point.

Maybe if the government showed that they cared about protecting it's own citizens against an invasion of immigrants or exploitation by corperations then that might show that people are worth caring about. If our own government doesn't protect it's own citizens or seem to care about them, why should the younger generation? Talk about mixed messages.

a reply to: MostlyReading

I believe Many society cultures around the world have not devalued the idea of family as we have here in America. They celebrate and nurture the idea that family is important. The frustrating violence we are experiencing here in America is not about the weapon of choice, but due to the lack of acknowledgement striking out.

a reply to: network dude

It's so much bigger than guns, or ADHD drugs, or video games, but it's all those things, and more. Empathy. The ability to care about the life of other people, or animals.

Emblazoning everyones mind with Media blitzes during tragedy is how we de-empathize the human soul. Its also how we tempt the next fence sitter to carry out the same thing for their fifteen minutes of fame.

They are watching, being emboldened by and leaning towards their BIG Debut with every minute of coverage they see about the last mass killing.

The glaring dichotomy? Masses of innocent women and children die every day in endless wars in foreign lands, but not one mainstream peep about that mass murder spree.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

The first report, from YouTube, has been corroborated on multiple outlets.

I truly believe that the "shooter" phenomenon is fueled by government forces. But thats why im on ATS, I guess. LOL

originally posted by: MostlyReading

nevermind...it's not a worthy path of discussion right now.

edit on 15-2-2018 by SlapMonkey because: deleted my comment