I Can't Take The Big Bang Seriously

a reply to: Nothin

I have doubts about all human endeavors of course. Scientific knowledge is always being overturned and updated by new discoveries and so we should be open minded enough to adjust our views in accordance with the best information available as that information continues to expand.

Yes to laypeople such as ourselves there are aspects of even simple technology and natural phenomena that we don't understand. As I mentioned about lightning earlier scientists are still studying how lightning forms. Recent discoveries show that lightning strikes can actually produce anti-matter. We're learning new things all the time.

I can see what you are getting at but the fundamental leap of faith is different from that of religion. We can all objectively observe technology at work. We can go online and watch the same video as someone else, we can fly in a plane and safely reach our destination, but we don't see the same objectively verifiable results from religion. A religious person can claim a miracle took place, even hundreds of witnesses can say they saw the miracle happen, but we don't see the observable objectively verifiable/measurable reality of the thing.

Science works, it is a tool that has led to wonderful and terrifying discoveries alike and while it is limited because it is the product of flawed often biased humans it is designed to weed out those flaws and work in spite of them. Science is capable of miracles that religion can neither deliver or even conceive of.

There's a reason the Pope is driven around behind bullet proof glass and not simply surrounded by a wall of his own religious conviction that God will protect him. Ironically even the religious will often put their faith in the reliability of science while paying lip service to God.

We don't know anything about the future, all we can do is observe the present.

This too may be a thing of the past in a century or two as the world becomes even more integrated and connected and Artificial Intelligence more powerful. Already companies around the world are working on AI algorithms that are trying to predict how humans will act.

As far back as 2014 a company had an AI on their board of directors making investment decisions. Algorithm Appointed Board Director

That isn't to say these future predicting machines will be perfectly accurate or be able to match the complexity of a world of billions upon billions of humans but I think underestimating the potential for this sort of thing has far worse consequences than overestimating.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy
No proof anything happened besides some idiot saying it did and the rest of you just melting about it.

What are you talking about? There's plenty of evidence to suggest *something* happened 13 odd billion years ago, where the universe as we know it, expanded outwards.

What does 'melting' about it mean? Is that some urban street youth patois?

It's here, innit?

BTW, what's the alternative?

We don't know, that's the point of science -- to find out how things work and how things happened.

The whole life thing is BS?

No. Who said that? I don't think that. I'm no emo.

originally posted by: Murgatroid
There is NO lack of evidence, the real problem is that most are scared spitless of what will happen to them if they actually BELIEVE said evidence.

WHo is? I'm not. I'll believe in something if there's evidence to imply it exists. There is zero evidence for the case of a God.

Fear and ridicule are massive tools used by TPTB to hinder people from finding the truth about everything that matters.

Ah. Like how the Church killed people who tried to use science to show the failings of the church?

a reply to: Barcs

That’s like saying bread dough is inifinite because you can stretch it out and then put it back into a ball over and over.

originally posted by: fatkid
a reply to: Barcs

That’s like saying bread dough is inifinite because you can stretch it out and then put it back into a ball over and over.

I tell my wife our dishwasher is infinitely sized.

She always wants to turn it on when it's barely full, but me (being frugal) think that I can always fit one more item inside. So if I'm right, and you can always fit one more item into a dishwasher, then that means it must be of infinite size.

originally posted by: Titen-Sxull
a reply to: Nothin

I have doubts about all human endeavors of course. Scientific knowledge is always being overturned and updated by new discoveries and so we should be open minded enough to adjust our views in accordance with the best information available as that information continues to expand.

Yes to laypeople such as ourselves there are aspects of even simple technology and natural phenomena that we don't understand. As I mentioned about lightning earlier scientists are still studying how lightning forms. Recent discoveries show that lightning strikes can actually produce anti-matter. We're learning new things all the time.

I can see what you are getting at but the fundamental leap of faith is different from that of religion. We can all objectively observe technology at work. We can go online and watch the same video as someone else, we can fly in a plane and safely reach our destination, but we don't see the same objectively verifiable results from religion. A religious person can claim a miracle took place, even hundreds of witnesses can say they saw the miracle happen, but we don't see the observable objectively verifiable/measurable reality of the thing.

Science works, it is a tool that has led to wonderful and terrifying discoveries alike and while it is limited because it is the product of flawed often biased humans it is designed to weed out those flaws and work in spite of them. Science is capable of miracles that religion can neither deliver or even conceive of.

There's a reason the Pope is driven around behind bullet proof glass and not simply surrounded by a wall of his own religious conviction that God will protect him. Ironically even the religious will often put their faith in the reliability of science while paying lip service to God.

We don't know anything about the future, all we can do is observe the present.

This too may be a thing of the past in a century or two as the world becomes even more integrated and connected and Artificial Intelligence more powerful. Already companies around the world are working on AI algorithms that are trying to predict how humans will act.

As far back as 2014 a company had an AI on their board of directors making investment decisions. Algorithm Appointed Board Director

That isn't to say these future predicting machines will be perfectly accurate or be able to match the complexity of a world of billions upon billions of humans but I think underestimating the potential for this sort of thing has far worse consequences than overestimating.

So knowledge evolves then, as new info comes-along, just like opinions and beliefs do?

Why should miracles, religion, or anything else other than science, be subjected to the scientific method?

How does predicting the future equal knowing the future?

originally posted by: strangechristian777
Them: Where did God come from?

Me: He always existed.

Them: That's impossible. God had to come from somewhere. Nothing can always exist.

Me: Where did the material for the big bang come from?

Them: It just always existed.



Mind blowing how people can be so oblivious to what they actually believe.

But who said matter "always existed"?

That's just dumb

We don't know anything about what happened before, and assuming anything at all in both cases is just way worse than just simply saying "i don't know"

And the fact is, we don't know, in any of the two possible choices we may be right or wrong. You want for God to be real, but all you have is what's inside you, and you don't know if your experience is more real than mine, i could tell you a thousand things that would either validate your experience or cause you to completely reject me as a crazy mind, depending on what you were taught.

I've been way too close to death and reached far beyond most people do in their life time, yet i don't know, nothing i've seen or felt proves anything to anyone else but me

But you know? It doesn't matter, at all

a reply to: WarriorMH

Welcome to the discussion.
The OP has not returned since their opening spew.

Nice to see someone else who knows that they don't know nothing!

originally posted by: Nothin
a reply to: WarriorMH

Welcome to the discussion.
The OP has not returned since their opening spew.

Nice to see someone else who knows that they don't know nothing!

Well no one does

We came here looking for that, at least i did

Too bad the OP disappeared, hate when it happens like this, bummer

originally posted by: fatkid
a reply to: Barcs

That’s like saying bread dough is inifinite because you can stretch it out and then put it back into a ball over and over.

Yep, which is why I don't buy into that idea.

a reply to: Nothin

Yes in a sense knowledge evolves. As new and better information is gathered we discard or update our base of knowledge accordingly.

Why should miracles, religion, or anything else other than science, be subjected to the scientific method?

Well given the way religion is declining around the Western world it's clear that something is causing people to lose their faith. If I can find real miracles out in the world without the aid of religion of what purpose is my religious faith? I can go on social media and be connected instantly to a loved one who is half way around the world instead of praying for their safety and waiting months for a letter that may never come. I can go to a doctor and see a seemingly miraculously recovery done using medical science instead of supernatural means.

It's not so much that the claims of religion ought to be subjected to the scientific method but that when compared side by side one is clearly of more pragmatic use than the other. It's clear that if I want my child to get well when they are sick I take them to a doctor, because parents that don't sometimes end up killing their kid. It's clear that if I want to help those devastated by tragedy and natural disaster my monetary and material donations go farther than mere thoughts and prayers.

That isn't to say religion has nothing to offer in terms of mythology, morality, emotional comfort and spiritual experiences but when it comes to claims about the natural world science obviously has the upper hand (and many believers would likely agree with me there).

How does predicting the future equal knowing the future?

Well we can't ever know the future with certainty however if we can get highly accurate predictions we can at least be ready for possible outcomes. Having some reliable data about possible futures is better than having none at all right? Your weatherman might get it wrong but it's better to know when you might need the umbrella than be caught out in the rain.

I suspect that as the world gets ever more interconnected and computing power grows those predictive algorithms are going to be eerily accurate.