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originally posted by: Titen-Sxull
I know of no such fact.
However even granting this it still creates an infinite regression wherein God's consciousness must have an origin in consciousness as well. There must be an Uber God and an Uber Mega God above that and an Uber Mega Super God above that. And in the end it really is turtles all the way down.
Rather it seems the case to me that consciousness emerges from the ground up and the idea of God out of that consciousness. The story of Adam and Eve seems, at least to me, a story of human beings grappling with becoming conscious. The knowledge of good and evil is tied to the emergence of consciousness and the discovery of the future and that discovery, called the Fall in the story of Eden, prevents human beings from partaking of the fruit of the tree of everlasting life. In other words we discovered our own mortality and by extension the effects we have on others and the future consequences of our actions thereby discovering morality/good and evil as well.
It may be human intuition to assume order is imposed from the top down but in nature we usually see order emerge out of chaos, bottom up.
Interesting view, but I still disagree that consciousness could emerge from "the ground up"
How does one explain or show evidence of the non-physical world? You cannot do so using empirical evidence, it is something you have to experience yourself.
originally posted by: noonebutme
a reply to: strangechristian777
You're missing a fundamental problem. There is zero evidence for your God but there substantial evidence to suggest there was some massive explosion of matter 13 odd billion years ago.
And no real person of science claims to know what was before the big bang, or what we call that moment, 'the big bang'. They theorise, hypothesise, etc. No one knows. No one.
Yet the religious - oh, well - *they* know. God did it. He always existed.
According to your lot, God put forward a universe so big, so vast, so immense....all for us. Or lives aren't even a spec on a spec of time in the grand scheme of things.
Galaxies collide with each other, black holes devour stars, stars explode and consume their solar systems -- all these massive events of utter destruction and chaos....
...and god made it all for us.
Yeh. That makes perfect sense.
originally posted by: Titen-Sxull
How does the non-physical world even manifest itself in any real tangible way? If its manifestations have no measurable effect than from a pragmatic standpoint they are irrelevant. However you suggest it can be experienced. How? Consciousness, as near as we can tell, is a function of brain activity. If the non-physical has a measurable effect on brain activity than we should be able to measure some anomalous interactions with this realm. If the non-physical has absolutely NO measurable effect on reality it is indistinguishable from the non-existent in every practical sense.
originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: Incandescent
The Infinite is probably the only void of space we dont need Scientific facts about to know that it exists.
Anyone With common sense would know. We all know that there is Space byond Our observable universe of 13.799 billion years. What kind of void of Space there would be is a fact we scant ask science about. Science wouldnt know.
Some People... not all of you... would probably also know that if we back up the finite timeline enough, we will end up With a single point.
originally posted by: strangechristian777
Them: Where did God come from?
Me: He always existed.
Them: That's impossible. God had to come from somewhere. Nothing can always exist.
Me: Where did the material for the big bang come from?
Them: It just always existed.
Mind blowing how people can be so oblivious to what they actually believe.
Do we not also have a "trend" of people saying that there is a subset of facts about the Cosmos that can only be explained by some as yet unknown, but potentially knowable scientific data?
What's the difference between that, and any other belief system
But does that truly justify believing that science can explain everything?
"I believe in the big bang...I just know who banged it" ~ Frank Turek
Until about the time of Einstein, atheists could comfort themselves with the belief that the universe is eternal, and thus did not need a cause. But since then, five lines of scientific evidence have been discovered that prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the universe did indeed have a beginning. And that beginning was what scientists now call “The Big Bang.”
commonquote.com...
originally posted by: noonebutme
a reply to: strangechristian777
You're missing a fundamental problem. There is zero evidence for your God...
The man who tells the truth is universally disliked by every person because every person has an agenda and is hiding behind a fantasy which the truth penetrates like an arrow and leaves him stripped naked before the whole universe, and he does not like that." ~ Milton William Cooper
There are few nudities so objectionable as the naked truth. ~ Agnes Repplier
I think it's fairly true that most people aren't that interested in recognizing the truth and orienting 100 percent around it. To do so could be fairly disruptive to the status quo and even to how the person is getting their needs met. ~ Thomas J. Leonard
Could This Change How We Think About God and The Universe?
Recent scientific discoveries have physicists and philosophers alike radically revising their ideas on the nature of the universe, and indeed the existence of God. Countless years and hours of calculations and mind-bending theories continue to reach the conclusion that the universe has a beginning, and did not occur by chance. In 2004 notorious atheist, Andrew Fleet, announced his retirement from the stringent rhetoric of atheism, based on these conclusions. He changed his mind.
Research into DNA has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce life, that intelligence must have been involved. – Andrew Fleet
Many Scientists now believe the existence of God is not only possible but probable. From their perspective, an intelligent force predating our universe initiated creation. And what’s more, scientific minds have drawn clear links between this force of intelligence and the spiritual realm.
Has Science Proven the Existence of God?
Reviews of Books with Scientific Evidence that God Exists
My Belief in God Began with a Book Recommendation
My Favorite Books
The Young Earth by John D. Morris, PhD (Read online)
By Design by Dr. Jonathan Safarti
Darwin’s Black Box by Michael J. Behe
Darwin’s Enigma by Luther D. Sunderland
Bones of Contentionby Marvin L. Lubenow
Buried Alive by Jack Cuozzo
Icons of Evolution by Jonathan Wells
The Case for a Creator by Lee Strobel
In Six Days Edited by John F. Ashton PhD.
On the Seventh Day Edited by John F. Ashton PhD.
Many Infallible Proofs by Henry M. Morris
The Answers Book by Ken Ham (Read online)
More Recommended Books
My Belief in God Began with a Book Recommendation. After over 40 years of not believing that God exists, I was dared by a Christian friend to read a book. I was surprised to find that there was scientific evidence for the existence of God. After that first book, I found other books with more scientific evidence. After nine months of reading, I suddenly believed in God and became born again as a Christian. (See My Testimony)
Reviews of Books with Scientific Evidence that God Exists