Enough is enough. Public massacres and school shootings must stop.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: CharlesT

Just like locks on doors, laws are only for honest people. Locks don't stop burglars and more laws won't stop criminals.

Let's just get rid of laws. Make murder legal. Make rape legal. Why not.

Laws don't stop them, so let's get rid of the laws that don't prevent.

Laws are present to deal with people who violate the social norms. The punishment for breaking those laws is suppose to be the deterrent. The point is laws dont matter to a person who has decided to ignore them and those laws dont matter to a person who is faced with an active shooter.

We don't need seatbelts or speed limits or dui laws or pilots licenses or material safety data sheets or etc et etc... whatever dude.

a reply to: Violater1

Dont forget about the Costco in Lenexa KS.

Having watched the scene play out today, the following can be stated:
While yes I agree with what the op has stated, this has gone too far. Another school shooting.
However, this is a dance that is going on and has gone on. And here is how it will play out in congress:
First there are the hopes and prayers for the people of that community. Then there are calls for a discussion and the demonization of those who would call for a discussion. And accusations on politicizing the dead and wounded, and the blood on the ground. Always wait until tomorrow, when it will no longer be politically convenient, and it goes quiet until the next mass shock shooting and it starts up again.

And what is even saddest of all is that the politicians are not interested in doing anything to help or stop this or even reduce it down, as it does not affect them. This is a political issue that they have used before and will use again. And as this is a political issue, it is muddied by political divide, combined with money, and a population that is either not clear on what is at stake or is following that divide into a personal life.

Here are the ones who are responsible.
The first is the shooter. That shooter did the deed, knew what he was doing and did such. As to why , we do not know, as to where we got the weapons, here again, we do not know. That has yet to be determined. However, whoever he lived with, and knew he had a gun, they too must bear some of the guilt for the blood spilt.
The next is the NRA. How many millions are donated to stop gun laws of any kind? Would the politicians on either side, who accept those donations, had voted different if they did not receive millions of dollars in political donations?
Then it goes to the congress. They do make the laws, they are suppose to upkeep on the general welfare of the country. Divided by political lines, between those that want stronger laws, and those who want more guns out there. And what is even sadder, is that neither want to agree that the other side may have a valid point, can’t do that cause it would mean going against the party line.
And finally society for spurring this on. A person who is white walking down the street with a loaded weapon is not viewed as a threat, but a minority, well then there are dozens of cop cars around and the person is read the riot act, thinking that the person is up to no good.

I do not agree that having more guns out there on the street is a good idea. Far too many people with grudges and thinking that just cause they have a gun, they will be the hero and it causes far more problems than it solves. Add into it those that are adamant about some social issues, and now you have a recipe of where someone innocent is going to be shot or worse, more events like what we saw today.

But there does need to be a rethinking of the gun laws that are out there. The first thing to consider and reconsider what is the purpose of firearms in society. Now many will say the second amendment, and to prevent a government gone too far, however, when was the last time anyone had to rise up against the federal government? Now there are those who have legitimate use of such, like those who are hunting, that should be allowable.

The next needs to be the kinds of weapons, the damage done and the grains used. Do we really need to have out in the public a weapon, that mimics military hardware? Do you need a weapon with the same firepower as a military bullet would have? Should there be loopholes on getting ahold of firearms? Should there be people that should not have access to firearms? Time to rethink those questions, and come to a consensus.

I do not believe in banning all firearms, nor do I think that it should be more out there. Nor should we have to carry firearms to any location or venue out there, that there should be places where firearms are illegal to have. Why would you want to have a firearm at say a bar, or a restaurant or the zoo or a movie, or in a church or even in a school where there are children?

Far too often we are seeing where people who should not be getting ahold of firearms are, and those who have, while in some cases, are the good guy with a gun, but far more often, turn around and use it to intimidate others, thinking that might makes right.

originally posted by: Harpua

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: CharlesT

Just like locks on doors, laws are only for honest people. Locks don't stop burglars and more laws won't stop criminals.

Let's just get rid of laws. Make murder legal. Make rape legal. Why not.

Laws don't stop them, so let's get rid of the laws that don't prevent.

Laws are present to deal with people who violate the social norms. The punishment for breaking those laws is suppose to be the deterrent. The point is laws dont matter to a person who has decided to ignore them and those laws dont matter to a person who is faced with an active shooter.

We don't need seatbelts or speed limits or dui laws or pilots licenses or material safety data sheets or etc et etc... whatever dude.

Wanna try that again and maybe make sense this time?

You guys aren’t listening

Your hearing only what you want to hear.


You want an argument about guns and children are dying. F___ guns!


I’ll repeat for the last time what I’m trying to convey

If you don’t get it this time, so be it.

I'll go watch the Knicks.


My point is that the PTB are so dogmatic their side is right, nobody wants to compromise therefore nothing gets done to try to solve this terrible problem.

I’m not God, I don’t have a sure solution, I do have an opinion but would be willing to try intelligent means to deal with this issue outside of my solution.


Would you be willing to do the same thing?

a reply to: MOMof3

Classic divide and conquer. Ex.

a reply to: Willtell

I gave a solution and you shat all over it because it didn't include a gun ban.



*flips Willtell the bird*

so this country has gotten to the point where the only solution to deter gun violence is by having more guns...

is that the gist of 6 pages of discussion?

a reply to: Xcathdra

Laws are present to deal with people who violate the social norms. The punishment for breaking those laws is suppose to be the deterrent. The point is laws dont matter to a person who has decided to ignore them and those laws dont matter to a person who is faced with an active shooter.

I know.

I was making a rhetorical point for those who say laws don't prevent anything.

a reply to: odzeandennz

Nope.

Dr. Phil in the thread wants to have an intervention, and talk about feelings.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

What felony were you going to charge him with? Just make one up so he cant buy a gun? As for mental illness, that is a slippery slope.

The kid was expelled and teachers told not to let him in the building because he had made threats of bringing a gun to school.

You do realize threading with deadly weapons is a felony right?

And if you're mental illness let's you spout out you're threatening with a gun, you don't have any grasp. Much less the maturity to own a gun.

originally posted by: MOMof3
I would rather keep my rifles and outlaw war weapons. I would rather the NRA become a extinct business. I would rather vote out all Republican Congress. They are letting people die and our children are targets.

What is a rifle and what is a war weapon?

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Willtell

I gave a solution and you shat all over it because it didn't include a gun ban.



*flips Willtell the bird*

Nonsense. I did no such thing.

Id be willing to listen to anything.

You want guns in every school, Id try that.

Today I went to a HS where they have armed cops

maybe that will work


Will you be willing to abandon that if it doesn't work and try something else?

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Guyfriday





If you don't change the behavior, then the person will just use a different weapon.


People don't get that if you change the behavior, then that eliminates the shooting before it even starts!

Just denying a killer a weapon does not stop the person's mentality.

Exactly, Look at England. A knife or a bat can be just as deadly as a gun. The good point that Willtell said was about mental health. That does need to be addressed in the country, and I feel that it could help stem some of these shooting. Other than that Willtell hasn't really put forth much of an idea.

originally posted by: Willtell
You guys aren’t listening

Your hearing only what you want to hear.


You want an argument about guns and children are dying. F___ guns!


I’ll repeat for the last time what I’m trying to convey

If you don’t get it this time, so be it.

I'll go watch the Knicks.


My point is that the PTB are so dogmatic their side is right, nobody wants to compromise therefore nothing gets done to try to solve this terrible problem.

I’m not God, I don’t have a sure solution, I do have an opinion but would be willing to try intelligent means to deal with this issue outside of my solution.


Would you be willing to do the same thing?

I think that people have stop compromising since all that happens is less legal rights for law abiding citizens, and more general freedoms for criminals. Again you said one thing that I can agree with, but you did state that you have no idea as to what could be done. You stated that you work at a school, without going to far into it, does your place of work have good policies for an active shooter situation, or is it a bad one? Do you know? (I'm not picking on you with the "Do you know" it's just that many people really don't know what their place of business's policy is for and active shooter situation)

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Harpua

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: CharlesT

Just like locks on doors, laws are only for honest people. Locks don't stop burglars and more laws won't stop criminals.

Let's just get rid of laws. Make murder legal. Make rape legal. Why not.

Laws don't stop them, so let's get rid of the laws that don't prevent.

Laws are present to deal with people who violate the social norms. The punishment for breaking those laws is suppose to be the deterrent. The point is laws dont matter to a person who has decided to ignore them and those laws dont matter to a person who is faced with an active shooter.

We don't need seatbelts or speed limits or dui laws or pilots licenses or material safety data sheets or etc et etc... whatever dude.

Wanna try that again and maybe make sense this time?

Your deterrent seems to be murder laws, I am suggesting gun laws. Pretty straightforward

a reply to: odzeandennz

Our society, and politics has gotten very sick. Not sure if having more guns will help, in this society we live in at this present time. Unfortunately it I think has more to do with the moral breakdown in so many ways. Because it is the mind not the gun in the ultimate end of the story that was the catalyst. Their is allot wrong with American society right now. Not to mention our politics.yet violence has always been a part on mankind’s story.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

a reply to: Willtell

You guys aren’t listening

Your hearing only what you want to hear.

I'm sure we're the only country with kids dying.

(queue in you saying we have more die... We are the third most populous country).

I agree it should be harder to get a gun, but not impossible.

There are so many guns in this country there's no way we're getting rid of them.

originally posted by: odzeandennz
so this country has gotten to the point where the only solution to deter gun violence is by having more guns...

is that the gist of 6 pages of discussion?

As opposed to Australia and the UK, who have extremely strict gun control laws yet still have gun crime?

a reply to: Xcathdra

Tell him to treat the first amendment the same way as the second.

Their heads explode.