Enough is enough. Public massacres and school shootings must stop.

a reply to: dragonridr

Which is why I'm trying to stick to firearms related deaths, but unfortunately some on here seem stuck on 1776 mode and resorting to bringing ip issues which are not relevant.

a reply to: PaddyInf

As I said you guys are wasting time comparing two countries. What I will say is people willalways find ways kill people . Without access to guns they just find another method.

Police find body in search for alleged crossbow killer

Officers say body is believed to be that of Anthony Lawrence, who had been sought after a 30-year-old man was killed

www.theguardian.com...

originally posted by: PaddyInf

originally posted by: RalagaNarHallas
a reply to: PaddyInf

because the USA has 5 times (roughly) more people then the UK and the UK is an island

You seem to have a problem understanding statistics...
I don't profess to having a solution to the problem, but until you acknowledge there is an issue then you will never have a solution either, and people will keep dying.

You seem to have a problem yourself. Let's call it reality.
This is from www.theguardian.com...
"Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show ...Police record 10% rise in crime in England and Wales, with 18% increase in violent crime and significant rise in murder rate. Police-recorded crime has risen by 10% across England and Wales – the largest annual rise for a decade – according to the Office for National Statistics.

The latest crime figures for the 12 months to March also show an 18% rise in violent crime, including a 20% surge in gun and knife crime. The official figures also show a 26% rise to 723 in the homicide rate, which includes the 96 cases of manslaughter at Hillsborough in 1989.

More alarmingly, the statisticians say the rise in crime is accelerating, with a 3% increase recorded in the year to March 2015, followed by an 8% rise in the following year, and now a 10% increase in the 12 months to this March."


"The home secretary, Amber Rudd, at Southwark police station in London this month. There has been a 20% surge in gun and knife crime."

a reply to: Violater1

As I have repeatedly stated, there are problems with violence in the UK. Again, you are focussing on the UK instead of the US.

Is there a reason you don't want to talk about the high levels of gun violence in the US and insist on focussing on the UK? After all, the thread is about a mass shooting in America, not gang rape in the UK.

Care to suggest any methods of addressing the proportionally high levels of gun violence in your cointry, or would you prefer to keep deflecting?

Would you rather just leave things as they are to protect the 2nd amendment and accept that there will be thousands of deaths each year? Genuine question.

Violater1:

...including a 20% surge in gun and knife crime.

There's simply no comparison with UK gun crime with that of American gun crime. Take a look, because your postings are utterly disingenuous...

Between 2014 and 2017, 56,755 Americans were killed by guns, including 2,710 children under the age of 12.

www.theweek.co.uk...

Now give me the statistics for UK gun deaths between the same years? In fact, don't bother, I'll give them you.

The gun homicide rate in England and Wales is about one for every 1 million people...

www.usatoday.com...

Gun homicide rates are 25.2 times higher in the US than any other high-income countries.

edition.cnn.com...

Americans can only dream with envy at having the same ratio of crime statistics as the UK.

a reply to: Violater1

While It is true that non sociopaths and non psychopaths as a rule of thumb, have a right to bear whatever arms are needed to solve problems (such as pit bulls that kill their masters, burglars, gangs, or foreign invasions) it is also true that the environment of high school is a pressure cooker for stress, a powder keg that mixes puberty, ideology, and coming of age stories with bullies, corrupt teachers, date rape, and, not surprisingly, gang violence at the same age that people are being actively recruited in the military and get permission to see R rated movies.

Therefore, it may be a better idea if the types of weapons available to children practicing with first person shooters do not lend themselves easily to killing whole class rooms, until they are out of the class room and had time to simmer down for a few years, with a few exceptions.

In essence, while a child is enrolled in school, or for a period immediately following suspension or expulsion, their access to the types of firearms should be Restricted, in the same way vehicle types are restricted. For example, at 16-18 you can drive an automobile. This is an appropriate age for a deer rifle, shot gun, or revolver, much the same as a .410 or 16 gauge shotgun or .22 rifle might be appropriate for a Boy scout.
At 21, you can drive a bus, or get a commercial pilot's license, or enter a strip club.

Since this type of restriction automatically sunsets at 21, and since the restriction can be modified for students who graduate early with a GED, declare independence, join the military, or enroll in college early successfully, it seems logical that this extra buffer could benefit society without significantly impacting the lifetime rights of citizens, and without completely disarming existing youth.

Such a program could be coupled with hunting courses made available on campus or hunting and competitive shooting clubs on campus, to enhance rather than diminish gun culture. Additionally, more concealed carry staff and principles, janitors, and other potential first responders would greatly benefit the school system.

When a school shooting happens, and we hear stories about two dead parents, a psychologically deranged kid, or bullying, are we honestly surprised? If it wasn't a gun shooting up the class room, it would be a truck plowing through the high school band. The only difference is the killer has to be 21 to drive a bus.

a reply to: skynet2015

I think that conversations over changing the age to 21 are meaningless tripe. It's the sort of do nothing regulation that we pass to solve a problem, but that doesn't actually do anything. High schoolers already can't purchase guns legally, they either get the guns off the black market or they steal them from adults. Pushing the age to 21 does nothing to their supply.

If we want to reduce guns in the hands of kids, it means we have to make them inaccessible on the black market, which generally means limiting supply enough that prices rise to unaffordable levels. Part of that also means getting already legal guns out of the hands of adults.

I think it would be a good step forward, but there are a lot of people who love their guns who would put up a big fight to implement that. Just read this thread for proof.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I've noticed.

We tried banning alcohol once upon a time... How well did that work out?

People turned to criminals for their booze. Speakeasies flourished. Organized crime, while already present, became ever more powerful and influential.

Prohibition was codified into the Constitution as the 18th amendment. It was such a roaring success that it was removed by another, the 21st, was passed to repeal it.

I would challenge my fellow Americans who think that their views are the majority, that handguns/rifles etc... should be banned, or far more strictly controlled, to attempt to put it before the people. Amend, or repeal, the second amendment...I kinda double dog dare ya.

It worked against the 18th amendment, why wouldn't it work against the 2nd??

a reply to: seagull

The automatic weapons ban has been very successful. Despite mass shootings occuring daily, they never occur with automatic weapons. That's proof we could do it.

a reply to: Aazadan

You mean they never occur with legally acquired automatic weapons. Plenty of auto AK's and SKS's in the hands of criminals.

originally posted by: cynicalheathen
a reply to: Aazadan

You mean they never occur with legally acquired automatic weapons. Plenty of auto AK's and SKS's in the hands of criminals.

And how many of the illegally acquired ones are used in mass shootings? What percentage? How about school shootings specifically? How about petty crime like robbing stores?

a reply to: Aazadan

Occurring daily? Y'all can't help yourselves, can you? Hyperbole on top of hyperbole. Yes, I know, all too many on my side of the fence practice the same thing.

No, you don't want to have it all on the table at once, you prefer to chip away, a piece at a time, little bit here, little bit there.

It's worked? Really? What are these mass shooting accomplished with? Haven't noticed a single solitary automatic weapon among the weapons used. I'm still seeing mass shootings, unfortunately. I mean that is what's triggered this most recent series of arguments, is it not?

No. Put it before the people. An all or nothing proposition. Would you care to lay odds on the results?

How about instead, and I'm beginning to feel like a parrot, rather than a seagull with all the repetition, we concern ourselves with the real issues. Mental health, and its associated areas.

This unreasoning fear of a tool is, frankly, getting to be absurd.

originally posted by: spy66
If we want this to stop maybe we should pay attention to School harassement, where teens harass other teens to the brink of insanity. Where harassed teens get pushed to to the point where their only option is to kill their stalkers.

Are you honestly saying that harassment is a new thing to teenagers? Really? That their "only option" is to kill the people they don't like?

I'm dumbfounded. Absolutely blown away by that attitude.

My brother got glasses in first grade. They were the "coke bottle" glasses that allowed him to see to be able to learn to read but a few of the older boys began to harass him about them. He was very self-conscious about it for a time but my parents encouraged him to "let it go" or make a joke about it....just as we cyber-citizens know that ignoring trolls is the best path, so is ignoring in-person bullying/harassment.

My parents had the same response to me when I was harassed for my height/weight. I was tall and skinny---got called all sorts of names. But my parents didn't coddle me and say, "Oh, you poor little girl." They explained to me as they had to my brother that the people doing the name calling were idiots. Ignore them and they will go away. Responding to them just encourages them.

There were plenty of guns available and there was plenty of harassment/bullying in years gone by. IT IS PART OF THE HUMAN CONDITION because there will always be idiots out there who want to make others feel bad. Stuffing the victim full of pills has not changed anything for the better.

Filling hormone-raging teenagers with brain-altering chemicals doesn't seem to be working now does it? Not unless your plan was to create schools that act more like prisons than places of education and provide a lot more jobs for security guards and builders of fences.

How about we treat children like humans who will one day have to face the stress of adult life. Teach them how to deal with people who don't respect them, teach them how respect is EARNED---not handed out like free coupons to McDonald's. Teach them to ignore idiots. Using bullying as an excuse to resort to violence is simply insane behavior.

From the time the first school was built there have been bullies and there have been guns. What happened in the 1980s that changed the situation? Introduction of mind-altering drugs in the form of SSRIs being dispensed to kids. As long as the medical industrial complex is allowed to keep the practice of handing out these chemicals like candy on Halloween, the "disturbed" kids will keep harming themselves and others.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Wardaddy454



Like I said, people aren't concerned by the huge number of dead and displaced , the destruction of Infrastructure, and the decapitation of Sovereign gubments, replaced with a puppet state, loyal to the Oligarchy.

How do you make a "Colony" of ruins, bloated stinking bodies buried under tons of rubble, sown with mines?

I thought we were spreading Democracy and helping the people and children and all?

Do tell.

I didn't say you make a colony out of ruins. It can easily be done when you "mass murder whole countries". So, which country that we've "mass murdered" has become a colony, or puppet state, if you prefer?

originally posted by: seagull
Occurring daily? Y'all can't help yourselves, can you? Hyperbole on top of hyperbole. Yes, I know, all too many on my side of the fence practice the same thing.

Yes. Occurring daily (well, close to it)
www.shootingtracker.com...

2017 - 346 mass shootings
www.gunviolencearchive.org...

2016 - 383 mass shootings
www.gunviolencearchive.org...

2015 - 333 mass shootings
www.gunviolencearchive.org...

A mass shooting is defined as an incident with 4 or more gunshot victims.

All that's horrible, and shouldn't have happened. What? You thought I'd say otherwise?

Is that going to change my thoughts on the matter of you, and those who agree with you, attempting to circumvent the Constitution, and the methods laid out for changing it? Nope.

I didn't do any of those shootings. Not one of my weapons were utilized in any of those shootings. Yet somehow, or other, I'm guilty?

When was my trial before a jury of my peers? Must have missed that notice...

You want to change the Constitution, do it the right way. Put it before the people.

ETA: Couldn't help but notice you ignored the rest of my post...

a reply to: Wardaddy454

I didn't say you make a colony out of ruins. It can easily be done when you "mass murder whole countries". So, which country that we've "mass murdered" has become a colony, or puppet state, if you prefer?

Puppet states are the desired outcome. If they refuse to submit, then they become Libyas, destabilized regions of infighting between minor groups vying for power.

We are currently doing the same thing in Iraq and Syria. Google Mosul ruins, Iraq.

Millions of tons of rubble, rotting corpses, sown with unexploded ordnance and mines.

Medieval.

image search result

a reply to: Xcathdra

Why should anyone care what a guy from Hollywood thinks..right?, I'm just making a point about the hatred of Hollywood peeps, and how their opinions are sh#t..IF they are left leaning.

I don't believe there is a chance in hell of controlling the gun issue at this point anyway, so I'm not making to the point for any reason other than to point out hypocrisy(not from you per se.)