Enough is enough. Public massacres and school shootings must stop.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I never suggested a utopia.

This is about dealing with a severe societal problem.

A severe problem requires a severe solution

America is number one on this one

www.cnn.com...

Why the US has the most mass shootings

When it comes to gun massacres, the United States is tragically exceptional: There are more public mass shootings in the United States than in any other country in the world, according to a study publishedrecently.
Between 1966 and 2012, there were 90 mass shootings in the United States. Mass shootings are defined for the study as having four or more victims and don't include gang killings or slayings that involve the death of multiple family members. These shootings include the Pulse nightclub shooting in Orlando in June 2016 -- the worst mass shooting in US history -- and others in an Aurora, Colorado, movie theater and at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, both in 2012.


Active shooter reported at Ohio State University; several hospitalized, suspect killed
The 90 US mass shootings are nearly one-third of the 292 such attacks globally for that period. While the United States has 5% of the world's population, it had 31% of all public mass shootings.

This is an old story. America has increased its bloody lead further

Enough is enough. Public massacres and school shootings must stop.

But wont as people feel the need to self-publicize and believe they will live forever in infamy

originally posted by: toysforadults
*everyone* why do these shootings keep happening?

*also everyone* treat's everyone around them like a human ATM's and sees other humans as resources with zero to no empathy

What is different now than it was a couple of decades ago when kids did not kill other kids at school???

There's on one answer...God was kicked out of the schools...There's now no fear of God...No fear of Hell...

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: Konduit

If you have a society that needs to arm and train teachers then you have a broken society that more guns will never fix

Disarming the law abiding citizens won't fix it either...So what do you suggest???

originally posted by: Iscool

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: Konduit

If you have a society that needs to arm and train teachers then you have a broken society that more guns will never fix

Disarming the law abiding citizens won't fix it either...So what do you suggest???

It’s a little more complicated now.

Look at the violence in the movies, or media in general.


All we do today is about materialism, smart phones, instagram, and face book.

Money, money, money.

Religion is fine IF it teaches love and brotherhood

I suggest a national conversation about our country. A national campaign to advertise like we sell soap, love, unity and empathy.

Lesson the violence and division. A first step.

Less violence on TV and movies

All this voluntary.

How about WE LOVE YOU on a billboard once in a while

Weve had war on drugs

War on crime

How about a good war on violence, hatred, and division

originally posted by: Xcathdra

No they wouldn't.

We have the death penalty for committing certain crimes and yet people, knowing the consequences, still commit those crimes. The death penalty is not a deterrent.

But the death penalty will deter some people, just not all.

If we could save one life....

Here's a partial solution. Same one I post after every one of these mass shootings.

If it shoots more than one round at a time, that weapon should be only in the hands of the military, or the police. Control multi-shot guns just like rocket launchers and hand grenades.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

We can't solve today's tragedy.

But we can solve tomorrows tragedy if we start now.

If we really start looking at our kids and start teaching them better ways to cope than shooting up a school.

Don't you get it, yet?

Shooting up the school, was the solution.

It just wasn't "your solution."

When something like this happens I can't help wondering about the PARENTS of a kid that shoots up a school.

I realize that as a parent, you can't always know what a kid is thinking, but how could parents that have a healthy, loving relationship with their kid miss it so completely?

At least in MY case, I can't even FATHOM missing something like this with one of MY kids. And I'm not saying that my kids are "Saints", or anything like that, but it seems to me, at least in MOST cases, there would at least SOME kind of warning signs if a kid is far enough off the reservation that they would shoot up a school.

I know that there are no absolutes, and I'm sure that sometimes kids can just "break", it seems to me that all things being equal, maybe the kid's parents pretty seriously dropped the ball.

I'm not sure I'm explaining it properly, but do you guys get the gist of what I'm saying?

originally posted by: MteWamp

At least in MY case, I can't even FATHOM missing something like this with one of MY kids.

Not every parent gets to spend lots of time with their kids.

Especially, in Florida, where many parents work two jobs to make ends meet.

So, kid-parent contact is often just not there, or is minimal.

That leaves the kid free to roam and develop into his own person, while mom and dad are sweating it out at work to bring in the dough, to feed and clothe and educate the ruffians.

originally posted by: MteWamp
When something like this happens I can't help wondering about the PARENTS of a kid that shoots up a school.

I realize that as a parent, you can't always know what a kid is thinking, but how could parents that have a healthy, loving relationship with their kid miss it so completely?

Why didnt Hitlers parents know?
Why didnt Stalins parents know?
Why didnt Dahmers parents know?
Why didnt Ed Gaines parents know?

Can we reasonably expect a mother or father to stop loving their children for what their children do? Can we expect parents to view their children as potential mass murders?

Sometimes it is difficult to see the trees when you are standing in the middle of the forest.

Ultimately the only person responsible is the person who commits the crime.

originally posted by: Iscool
There's on one answer...God was kicked out of the schools...There's now no fear of God...No fear of Hell...

Yes, of course. God was kicked out of schools, so he comes in back again and again blazing guns.

Just as he says ...[Genesis 9:5]

a reply to: Willtell

If you have a society that needs to arm and train teachers then you have a broken society that more guns will never fix

Starred that one.

Your comment pretty much sums it all up. I would also like to add: if you have a society that needs to train children within the school system re: active shooter drills; metal detectors, onsite police, etc than that society is absolutely broken.

a reply to: Liquesence
But you did not answer the question.

I am sure that many people who own firearms are not going to shoot up a place or murder people, however, it still does not answer the question.

I am not saying ban all of the firearms, however I am saying that it is time that we start reevaluating why we need firearms, in the quantities and varieties in this country. Every time there is legislation to ban people from owning them, who should not, every time they try to limit to try to prevent people from getting them, there is push back and the cries of the government is going to take our guns.

Would you not agree, that there are some venues that one should not be bringing a firearm to, or where firearms should be banned?

Mistakes happen, and sometimes with far more tragic consequences. So if you are not wanting to have the difficult and complicated arguments that are surrounding this issue, do tell how many more children have to die before something is done? And are you willing to risk that of your own family for avoiding it?

What if it was your child that was in that school or situation, would you then want to have that conversation if not start to look at that question?

originally posted by: Konduit
Which one of these is more likely to deter a criminal.

Neither if they are determined enough.

Let's not pretend that legal gun carrying citzens are super heroes. They're not.

Most will run in a mass shooting incident. They are not trained to handle it.

I'm not against responsible gun ownership.

But enough is enough. My right to live trumps your right to own a gun.

originally posted by: carewemust
Here's a partial solution. Same one I post after every one of these mass shootings.

If it shoots more than one round at a time, that weapon should be only in the hands of the military, or the police. Control multi-shot guns just like rocket launchers and hand grenades.

Logically that's the answer. But sadly at this point there's too many guns already on the streets to start now. The world we live in now just flat out sucks.

originally posted by: sdcigarpig
a reply to: Liquesence
...
Would you not agree, that there are some venues that one should not be bringing a firearm to, or where firearms should be banned?
...

How did that work out by banning firearms on school grounds?
How did that work out by preventing trained military personnel from carrying sidearms on base?
How did that work banning firearms from churches?


Fact is it didn't All it did was to create a safe zone for the determined criminal looking for an easy soft spot to attack.

So, my answer to your question is, a resounding........ no.

a reply to: Xcathdra
I have not missed the point of your argument. You however missed mine.

I am not saying that we need to ban guns. I am saying that we need to have the conversations and re-evaluate both the laws and the place of guns in this society. That we need to sit down and figure out if the people really needs weapons that can fire bullets that do the same kind of damage that say a military weapon can do.

I know that there is more than one kind of caliber of weapon and weapons. I am fully aware of that, but I am correct that it is an arms race out there. And as one side gets a bigger, better, newer weapon, the other side more often than not, gets one that is either the same or one class better. That is the very essence of a weapons race.
And yes I have looked at this and researched it out. I remember a crime that happened, where it was apparent. Do you remember the bank robbery in the 1980’s? 2 bank robbers robbed a bank, and the police were outgunned. Their vehicle was bullet proof, they wore body armor, and were carrying semiautomatic firearms, thousands of rounds, and several homemade bombs. The police could not take them down at all, they were ill prepared, and it was unexpected, and after that police were starting to get better equipment. So yes it is an arms race that is happening. It is not out in the open but it is there.

Nor you did not answer my question either, as to what should have more weight, your right to carry a gun, or the life of a child. It is a difficult question, but one that needs to start being asked and answered. I know it is not a fair question, but if people are going to cling to the second amendment, they should at least be willing to answer that question and explain why.

Now as I stated before and in the first post, I am not for banning firearms. I am saying it is time to get proactive. In the last year of Obama, a new regulation was pushed to where those with mental illness would not be able to get a firearm. It was passed, and then in Feb Trump and the Congress, pretty much blocked that last minute regulation. And funny how people who are on the terrorist watch list, and the no fly list, can still get a firearm. And also how one can go to a gun show and still get a firearm without any sort of check.

The reality is that there is a real serious problem in the USA with firearms. And tomorrow has come, and now is the time to start questioning and looking for solutions. This should not be a partisan issue, nor should the NRA hold so much sway that it affects potential solutions.

Now I am not saying that everyone with a firearm is going to go out and commit a crime. However, facts are that far too many of them act in a way that is unsafe, and people end up either hurt or dead due to their negligence.

a reply to: spy66

If any School needs a Security guard there have got to be something really wrong With the community. These are teens/kids. Where is Our responsability as parents?

I went to a school with a security guard. In fact not a very good one, the dude sold drugs to kids as a side job. Pretty sure kids there had guns, or at least just the bad kids. But the school? Was actually pretty good, in fact it was more then a decent school and one of the better ones out there. But really the only death that I can remember is that one of the kids at home or at a park or somewhere was standing behind a horse and got kicked in the head, and brain dead, puled the plug type of deal.

But there is your answer. Were is the parents responsibility? Most of them to busy working no doubt, the 40 hour work weak leaves little time for anything else, and most work more then that, and teachers no doubt got enough on there plate. And well kids will be kids, and if kids have access to guns? Well a lot of them do, but only a few go wacko like this and start shooting other kids.

And in other places of the world? Well they may not have there issues with this, but believe you me they have plenty of other issues. You can not look at one place or country or even town and say, oh these people don't have this problem, why do these other guys have this issue. Its all different circumstances everywhere.

When I was a teen I knew kids, and teens, who had guns both legal and illegal, some of them I would not trust to turn by back on. In fact one in particular I hanged out once in a while, was so out of it that he had his lawyer on speed dial on his phone because he was in and out of joovy and jail, all the time for stupid criminal behavior.

I think everybody knows one of those type of guys, in high school, or possibly college, you know the guy with the FBI baseball hat, and in small print, Female Body Inspector hat they wear everywere and in school. The dude was very popular with the ladies as well.

Well! One day I was at his place hanging out, I let him borow my PSX went some 3 weeks prior, and later to get it back at his apartment complex. Ended up getting drunk, and whatever else he gave me, and staying longer playing videogames, and I saw his brother and some other guy acting all none shalant outside the complex looking at my car. Eventually it hit me. These #ers were trying to jack me.

I told him straight up. Hey give me my PSX, I got to go. Also I think your brother is up to something, and your all just waiting for me to pass out, and I also think and a little voice is telling me that I just may have to go into the kitchen and take one of those knifes there and put it in his head, and yours, if he tries pulling something out on me.

His response was after a minute of staring at me and blinking. "YA".... So I took my stuff, and left. Passed by his brother in the parking lot. Said hi to him, he mubled something back to me all pissy, and his buddy was all itchy in the back, both of them him and his brother I know got car jacking on there records, in fact the guy I knew the only way he stayed up as he could not get a job with his record, was by making speed and selling it to construction workers and bussiness men and the like.

Anyways. I got in my car and left. And yes that is a true story, #ers were trying to jack me after I was out of it.

As you can see all kinds of shady kids and wierdos out there. But it seems the type I wrote above do not have a tendency to shoot up a school, even though the guy I wrote about had like 3 guns one a desert eagle, and none of them legal, but both him and his brother would never think of shooting up a school, they would be way to suspect.

The only kind I have found who do that, are the troubled ones, the ones bullied to much or are half going through puberty and dont know how to deal with the world, so maybe if the guy who decided to shoot up that school had a little more time to think things through or was more mature he would have gotten over it.

So really as you can see, there are issues and there are issues, and then there are people living in gingerbread houses who are clueless to the world outside in so many ways that its a wonder there still alive, and some of them do live and grow up to become parents, in fact a great majority of them.

But banning guns may have some effect on school shootings, but its not likely to effect many other aspects outside that. In fact it may shift the dynamic in untold ways. So we will see I suppose, or more the case you all will see.