Shooting reported at Florida high school

a reply to: Soulece


So do you trust the fed to pick and choose what rights you keep?

I ask because last time we did that we got the patriot act...

We have lots of laws already surrounding ownership of guns, what I read is the guy was not supposed to have a gun... yet he did, So what law would fix that?

a reply to: Soulece

Handguns are for close range combat.

Carbines like the AR or AK pattern rifles are for short to intermediate ranges.

Rifles are for extended range.

Every weapon has its contextual applications.

I need my rifle, my carbine, and my pistol. Don't let your relative comfort fool you. This isn't just something that happens to other people. I don't train for what I expect to happen, I train for the unlikely, the worst case scenario.

I train to patch up holes, stop bleeding, and restore breathing. I also train to cause those things because violence is a tool used by good people and bad people.

The vast majority of AR15s were not use and will not be used to hurt anyone. I train to prepare for the asshole who thought I'd make an easy target.

a reply to: Soulece

I dont think you understand.

No, sir, it is you who does not understand. There is no difference between the capacity and firing speed of a semi-automatic pistol and a semi-automatic rifle. None. If anything, the pistol is faster to swing around and aim. There is absolutely no reason to believe that a pistol instead of a scary black rifle would have caused any less damage.

I could never do it, of course... I could not even conceive of doing what this kid did... but given a hall full of moving paper targets, I could easily take out 20-30 of them within 3 minutes with a revolver. That gun is slower to reload than a semi-auto pistol or rifle (but can fire almost as fast using double-action).

Thus far, I can't recall a single statement you have made about firearms being accurate. Please, just try reading up on firearm operation and safety (and no, I don't recommend using NRA propaganda). Firearms are simple mechanisms and are not difficult to understand, if one keeps an open mind. You have an entire Internet at your fingertips. Use it!

Here's a link to get you started.

TheRedneck

Guns of all sorts are out there by the millions...no amount of laws can recall them...the only defense for these school shootings is armed security at the front door...there's lots of retired police who would work these jobs for a reasonable salary and you won't have to pay them benefits as they already have them as part of their retirement packages..smarten up people.

originally posted by: Im2keul

originally posted by: starviego

originally posted by: projectvxn
High school ROTC.

If you think you get the same training in high school ROTC that I did in basic combat training, then you are delusional.

He was probably pulled aside and given the 'special' training. Note the shooter is also alleged to have had a gas mask and smoke grenades.

Got a link for that?

www.miamiherald.com...=cpy
U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson told reporters that Cruz pulled a fire alarm and then, wearing a gas mask, began tossing smoke bombs and shooting people as they ran through the haze.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Soulece


So do you trust the fed to pick and choose what rights you keep?

I ask because last time we did that we got the patriot act...

We have lots of laws already surrounding ownership of guns, what I read is the guy was not supposed to have a gun... yet he did, So what law would fix that?

Do we know how he got the weapon? Did his parents own it?

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Soulece

I dont think you understand.

No, sir, it is you who does not understand. There is no difference between the capacity and firing speed of a semi-automatic pistol and a semi-automatic rifle. None. If anything, the pistol is faster to swing around and aim. There is absolutely no reason to believe that a pistol instead of a scary black rifle would have caused any less damage.

I could never do it, of course... I could not even conceive of doing what this kid did... but given a hall full of moving paper targets, I could easily take out 20-30 of them within 3 minutes with a revolver. That gun is slower to reload than a semi-auto pistol or rifle (but can fire almost as fast using double-action).

Thus far, I can't recall a single statement you have made about firearms being accurate. Please, just try reading up on firearm operation and safety (and no, I don't recommend using NRA propaganda). Firearms are simple mechanisms and are not difficult to understand, if one keeps an open mind. You have an entire Internet at your fingertips. Use it!

Here's a link to get you started.

TheRedneck

You say that the Las Vegas shooter would do the same amount of damage with a handgun from where he was. I mean there's no difference, right?

a reply to: Soulece


I honestly don't know, any information at this point could be proven wrong tomorrow.

But for instance the Vegas shooter passed multiple background checks didn't he (its late I'm tired memory could be off), if someone has the criminal connections to get a fire arm, or a clean record to get a firearm and decides to kill people there is not a law in the world that will stop them.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Soulece


I honestly don't know, any information at this point could be proven wrong tomorrow.

But for instance the Vegas shooter passed multiple background checks didn't he (its late I'm tired memory could be off), if someone has the criminal connections to get a fire arm, or a clean record to get a firearm and decides to kill people there is not a law in the world that will stop them.

I acknowledge this and would never argue against it.

EDIT: Im all for gun ownership. I just believe there are unnecessary guns out there easily accessible.

Its in the mind, its in the soul. The soul of the country is sick.

originally posted by: Willtell
Its in the mind, its in the soul. The soul of the country is sick.

We don't agree on much, but I am with you here.

We have a problem, something has fundamentally changed in our country and a law wont fix it. But I will be danged if I know how to figure it out and fix it, maybe we need to get back to interacting with each other as much as we interact online.

I dunno its late I'm tired and not sure I can sleep at the moment.

Gentle reminder...

Please keep to the topic of the school shootings, and not make this a debate about gun control.

You are responsible for your own posts.....those who ignore that responsibility will face mod actions.


and, as always:

Do NOT reply to this post!!

a reply to: starviego Thank you for the link.

originally posted by: Irishhaf

originally posted by: Willtell
Its in the mind, its in the soul. The soul of the country is sick.

We don't agree on much, but I am with you here.

We have a problem, something has fundamentally changed in our country and a law wont fix it. But I will be danged if I know how to figure it out and fix it, maybe we need to get back to interacting with each other as much as we interact online.

I dunno its late I'm tired and not sure I can sleep at the moment.

Look my friend, were all in this together.

I work in schools everyday. I will go to work tomorrow with a heavy heart and a prayer


we have to find an answer. It wont be easy

a reply to: uninspired

How many people per year have to use their AR-15 for defense? It’s not like it’s Red Dawn out there.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m in the middle of this debate. I grew up in Idaho and was handling firearms very early in life and still own several.

That being said there is no perfect fix for this problem. One thing is for sure, our current system isn’t working. I mean if I went out and spent $1000 dollars on my debit card at McDonalds my bank would call me checking on fraud and check up. Dude in Vegas purchased enough AR’s in 1.5 years to arm a small country. There is no legitimate reason one person needs 20-30 assault rifles.

a reply to: Soulece

If he was a good shot, yes. The only advantage the rifle gave him was that a rifle is more accurate at a greater range than a pistol.

Use me as an example. If something that needs shooting is within 60 yards of me, I want a pistol. I have better aiming speed and the accuracy is good enough that whatever I'm shooting at will wake up dead the next morning. Farther way I want a rifle, because I have more time to aim before it gets too close to me and I have greater accuracy at that range.

Hunting... if I am in open areas, I want my .223 Mini-14. It has a flat trajectory (the bullet is actually used for military sniper ops) and plenty of power to take down most game. If the area has some brush, I need a bigger bullet so I use my Thompson Contender 30-30. Not only is it lighter, but the heavier bullet will go through light brush, but has a shorter range... and if there's brush, I am not going to need to take a 200 yard shot. I also need something like a tree limb to steady it on beyond 50 yards (it's a pistol), but there's usually plenty of those.

Protection at home... all I normally need is the old 12-gauge pump by the front door loaded with 000 buck magnums. One shot will take out an entire group of people... and remind my shoulder why I don't use it that much. Between that and a pistol, I am able to protect myself.

Specialty... I also have a lever-action .444 Marlin. It's literally a bear gun, originally developed for the US Parks Service to take out rogue grizzlies with one shot. I use it for a bear gun... or will, should it ever be needed for such. We do have bears, and I don't cotton to the idea of tangling with one under-armed. Luckily, they have never decided to tangle with me.

The whole point is that every gun has a purpose and an intended range of conditions it is optimal for. Humans exist across all terrains and lands, so no matter which gun you decide is deserving of being banned, there will be plenty of areas left where other guns will work better than it. Ban rifles and close range handgun massacres will still exist. Ban pistols and killers will start sniping. Ban them both and you'll see a jump in shotgun murders. You'd have to ban every single gun, including all those that already belong to people who will go to great lengths to keep them, to make a difference... and then you have to worry about people making guns in their garages and basements. Yes, it really is not only possible, but also not even that difficult.

In the meantime, more innocents will die because of the same reason we see these school shootings... no guns allowed except for the ones the killer brings.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Irishhaf

Well teaching right from wrong Is hard right now Right and wrong seems to have been blurred in our society I think politics right now in d.c is a good example things we thought were right 30 years ago are wrong now.

What makes a 19 yr old kid go out a get a gun to go into a high school to kill people, is really hard to understand. It’s easy for us to blame the gun, maybe it was to easy for this guy to get the gun but before we get to this point what triggered this kid to do something he knew was wrong? At this point we know mentally he has problems, we also know there were warning signs. We know he was expelled from the school, and for whatever reason he wanted to make the kids feel his pain. I digress I think there is something in our culture and society that is pushing these people to the point of no return and settling with killing people and doing something wrong. OR perhaps these people are wired similar to serial killers? Perhaps it’s a mutation psychologically or perhaps it’s just the infamy. I think this guy knew this was wrong, I think he was inspired by the enemy he got hurt in some way by us or the kids at that school and chose to go into that school and make them pay.. I would assume in the end this was revenge and the act vindicated him. Back to the blurred lines of right and wrong.. I await the additional information we learn about this mass murderer.

Enough for me.

Peace.

a reply to: roadgravel

I've been following this thread since the news broke. Great thanks to you, roadgravel, and the rest of the contributers for booting this to the front page. It needs a lot more flags, and you need more stars.

This is a another painful day in America, and we can't let this be the "new normal". We have to figure something out, and in all honesty, I am alongside so many other people who have spoken in this thread: I don't have an answer.

I believe in mostly unrestricted access to guns because of common sense. In a nation with so many firearms and such a long history of lax control, there is no good way to guarantee the "bad guys" are as restricted as the "good guys" with just the stroke of a pen. There are so many guns in America that could be considered "assault weapons" that there would need to be a special program to gather and transfer all "assault weapons" that would require an act of congress to push through as well as a willing president and judicial branch. We know how that works. It won't happen.

Everyone who feels the need to be protected by a firearm deserve it. The few who simply seek to harm (threaten/injure/kill) others will always exist, whether or not they can inflict the harm by firearm.

Guns are ingrained into our culture. They make us part of who we are as a nation. However, this is the price we face with such a freedom. Is there another way? I feel the real compounding problems of an ever shrinking pay base low to medium skill job (fast food to upper scale food serve and basic mechanic/technical work) and ever rising cost in rent/food/utility and lack of growth in the higher level jobs are the basic roots which lead to the "decline" of our society.

This is what opens the door for one disillusioned person to take advantage of a basic freedom. It is absolutely a mental health issue. And if you believe in unrestricted firearm access (like I do) you had better factor in some caveats that prevent this situation. I feel better work environments and a leveling of the pay field is in order. I don't know if that will help, but I think it would be a start to reversing the hopelessness that leads to these actions.

a reply to: mzinga

I am with you on an AR for defense. But, I would be hard pressed to raise an eyebrow to anyone who had an AR for target shooting. They're simply a lot of fun and are key for certain target shooting situations. Shooting is a sport in America, we're not all just out there LARPing in camo pretending to be militiamen.