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do not rescusitate .............

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posted on Feb, 10 2018 @ 02:33 AM
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I have an "if I don't die, kill me" order.

A DNR86.








posted on Feb, 10 2018 @ 02:43 AM
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I know that in the UK paramedics have very clear set of criteria for not attempting to do CPR, typically if the patient has not had any CPR in a set amount of time and if they have obvious injuries that are incompatible with life then there is no CPR

I have also taught resus skills in hospitals and to the public and when it comes to this our advice was always pretty simple; when in doubt start CPR and only stop when you cannot physically keep going or help arrives to take over.

Your odds of surviving a out of hospital arrest are pretty slim at the best of times, even in hospital it’s pretty poor. I think there is a lot of people who don’t understand this and think of CPR as some kind of silver bullet.



posted on Feb, 10 2018 @ 02:46 AM
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Perhaps i can explain a DNR order... from a different perspective

Imagine a person with osteoporosis, which is a bone density issue...

Said person has a heart attack... the person doing CPR (chest compressions) on this person will likely break ribs, and cause internal bleeding because of it...

IF said person survives they will be in a dire situation, having to deal with the repercussions of the heart attack, and the rest of the issues caused by CPR

what would you do?




posted on Feb, 10 2018 @ 02:51 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

This is what I mean by how I think people have miss understandings around CPR.

Just last week I was doing compressions on a woman, I felt her sternum crack under my hands.

Not nice,



posted on Feb, 10 2018 @ 02:56 AM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Akragon

This is what I mean by how I think people have miss understandings around CPR.

Just last week I was doing compressions on a woman, I felt her sternum crack under my hands.

Not nice,



Right.. sorry you had to experience that



posted on Feb, 10 2018 @ 09:03 AM
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a reply to: saint4God




Otherwise a DNR seems like a get-rich-quick or die trying scheme to sue someone because they didn't know about a piece of paper


That cant happen, good Samaritan laws prevent anyone being sued from an unknown DNR or injury that might have been incurred when the person doing the "saving" was trying to help the victim



posted on Feb, 10 2018 @ 09:12 AM
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When revival is impossible.

My uncle hit a telephone pole at 100mph on a harley, bounced off and hit a steel fence post (snapping it off) then continued flying another 200 feet before landing on his butt(compressing his spine into his brain).

The fence post held up a barbed wire fence, which ripped his right arm off, leaving it hanging by the connective tissue in his anterior deltoid. When EMts arrived he had bled out. They pumped him full of plasma and restarted his heart twice on the way to Odessa Regional Hospital.

After a 5 months in am induced coma, a gang of surgeries to remove tissue that died from trauma shock, and another brush with death from VRE, he has survived. That was 17 years ago.



posted on Feb, 10 2018 @ 10:08 AM
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originally posted by: SailorJerry
That cant happen, good Samaritan laws prevent anyone being sued from an unknown DNR or injury that might have been incurred when the person doing the "saving" was trying to help the victim


This is good, I didn't realize the law would apply in this case.

I also wanted to clarify my questioning/challenging isn't under the presumption that I know right answers on this topic, but to better understand the situation and paradigms. I really apprecate the testimonies here from patients, family and medical personnel in addition to ethical theory.

On topic of religion as brought up by Buvvy, is there a Christian here who believes that DNR is okay according to faith? I've read many articles saying this is Biblically inappropriate, so scripture to support pro-DNR would be an interesting study I think.
edit on 10-2-2018 by saint4God because: Added last paragraph

edit on 10-2-2018 by saint4God because: Clarity



posted on Feb, 10 2018 @ 10:11 AM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
When revival is impossible.

My uncle hit a telephone pole at 100mph on a harley, bounced off and hit a steel fence post (snapping it off) then continued flying another 200 feet before landing on his butt(compressing his spine into his brain).

The fence post held up a barbed wire fence, which ripped his right arm off, leaving it hanging by the connective tissue in his anterior deltoid. When EMts arrived he had bled out. They pumped him full of plasma and restarted his heart twice on the way to Odessa Regional Hospital.

After a 5 months in am induced coma, a gang of surgeries to remove tissue that died from trauma shock, and another brush with death from VRE, he has survived. That was 17 years ago.


Was the conclusion of the experience to never give up? Do you think it applies to the other cases as well such as elderly with additional or presumably fatal conditions?



posted on Feb, 10 2018 @ 10:14 AM
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a reply to: saint4God

Well...if the head is destroyed or detached there is no use.



posted on Feb, 10 2018 @ 10:57 AM
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Why should someone want to be saved...just to die later? We can't live forever.



posted on Feb, 10 2018 @ 01:59 PM
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originally posted by: Ursushorribilis
Why should someone want to be saved...just to die later? We can't live forever.


For that matter, why live at all?



posted on Feb, 10 2018 @ 02:28 PM
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a reply to: saint4God

Quite a buddhist notion



posted on Feb, 10 2018 @ 02:34 PM
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Everyone is forgetting the most important thing here... it doesn't matter what any of us think. It's not our body it's theres. If for w/e thats what they believe and want then so be it. Respect their wishes and worry about yourself.

I've debated DNR for myself. some people don't have great healthy lives. some people like myself live in chronic pain and require a machine to stay alive. I'm on dialysis because i have a genetic illness.. people don't know what they don't experience first hand... I can see why some people choose DNR and i respect their wishes



posted on Feb, 10 2018 @ 04:50 PM
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To attempt CPR or not is, in my experience, largely a practical decision. If the odds are good (or even uncertain) you go ahead.

If the odds are not good a decision not to attempt CPR and defibillatrion might be taken.

It's a pretty #ty decision to have to make, and usually quite a few people are involved. If you are on your own, I agree that you should do your best as long as you are able until help arrives or you cannot any more. As long as your own safety and health is not in danger. Or there are other compelling reasons not to go ahead.

Doing CPR for an hour is heavy work, and the odds for the patient are pretty slim if you have to keep his brain cells supplied with oxygen for that amount of time, but he might survive. And even have a worthwhile life afterwards, and if you do nothing, you can be pretty certain that it will haunt you later.

As to DNR it is very seldom a consideration in a first aid scenario because you will probably not have that kind of information available in these kind of scenarios (which are pretty chaotic at the best of times).

But obviously, keeping someone alive against their express wishes ( if sound of mind - another quagmire there) is ethically problematic.

BT
edit on 10-2-2018 by beetee because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2018 @ 10:00 PM
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a reply to: Buvvy

I stated clearly that I didn't always know the whole 'back story' - that I didn't always know ALL the details. But when you're trained to save lives, and you have to sit and watch someone die because it's against the law to even touch them? It just so goes against my heart. I've seen SO MANY miracles where people were saved. To watch someone just 'go away' is very difficult. And then I watch the pain in the eyes of the loved ones who are SCREAMING AT ME AND MY PARTNER TO DO SOMETHING - because they all thought a DNR was GREAT - until those finally last breaths were being taken.

And honestly? I can't remember ONE FAMILY MEMBER who 'Agreed' with a DNR - who didn't take it back - when they saw their loved one dying.



posted on Feb, 10 2018 @ 10:00 PM
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NO idea why that was a double post? I guess ATS knew I meant it!

Sorry oh.
edit on 5001Saturday201813 by silo13 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2018 @ 10:11 PM
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a reply to: silo13

Sorry but to say that you cannot recall a single family member who agreed with a DNR to me suggests one of two things. Either you have never actually worked in health care or you just want to push some kind pretend that DNRs are a bad idea for whatever reason.

A DNR is essential fir a peaceful and dignified death. I don’t know of many families who wouldn’t want that for a loved one



posted on Feb, 10 2018 @ 10:16 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

In the 'heat of the moment' as they say - when people are watching their loved ones actually DIE - in 'real life,' dealing with death right their in their face and not just a 'kind'a notion' they agreed with when said loved one was all toodles up and fine?

No, I've never had any family or friend not beg me to 'do something'!

And I could give a sod if you believe me or not.



posted on Feb, 10 2018 @ 10:24 PM
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a reply to: silo13

Fair enough.

I am just saying that what you are claiming does not sound right from the perspective of someone who works in health care and is regularly involved in decisions around resuscitation.

Could just be a UK/US difference or something



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