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POLITICS: Bush Puts Jobs Ahead of Climate Treaty

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posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 01:32 AM
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eaglewingz, don't you understand that denying that type of ignorance would shatter the worlds of so many liberal progressive anti-Bu#es here? Really, get a grip and embrace ignorance with the rest of them!




posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 02:02 AM
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Originally posted by eaglewingz
Bush administration, Bush administration, Bush administration!

Why doesn't anyone ever mention the 95-0 vote by the U.S. senate in 1997 against the treaty?


Great point
I would like to just add John Kerry was one of those 95



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 03:46 AM
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I used to believe that the Kyoto treaty was BS, until I my girlfriend rented the movie The Day After Tomorrow. It then became eminently clear what horrors are in store, if we do not stop messing around with the environment.












Just kidding.


[edit on 05/2/16 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 01:38 PM
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Do not do that any more, Grady; I am an old man with a weak heart. When I was the top line -- and then your avatar -- I almost swallowed my dentures.



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 01:45 PM
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I'd like to invite you all to come to

www.abovetopsecret.com...

and tie in your views on global warming (pro or con) to the alternative energy thread. My colleague Horacid and I would love to see some input there!



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by Umbrax
My second line Custom Title used to read "Who Benefits?"


Umbrax - I think you should change it back as it is oh so a propos. In fact that the question to be put to most everything talked about here on ATS!!!

Its always the same people/corporations/banking cartels that benefit from everything nasty that happens in the world.

Any anyone who tell you saving jobs is the priority is a lying SOB.




[edit on 16/2/05 by AlwaysLearning]



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Great point
I would like to just add John Kerry was one of those 95


Yes, because they're all from the same elite club at the end of the day.



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
Thank God he puts American interests ahead of this stupid idiot treaty!!!


Thank God he puts American interests ahead of proof of WMD too. It is clear that that kind of reasoning is first and foremost in everything and f*ck the world basically. But I ask you, what's the real concern here...your little job, or the interests of big oil and corporations?

If you, for one moment think its the former, I'm very sad for you.

PS India has signed onto the treaty as far as I know.



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by AlwaysLearning
Thank God he puts American interests ahead of proof of WMD too. It is clear that that kind of reasoning is first and foremost in everything and f*ck the world basically. But I ask you, what's the real concern here...your little job, or the interests of big oil and corporations?

If you, for one moment think its the former, I'm very sad for you.

PS India has signed onto the treaty as far as I know.


And if you think the US would be what is now without big corporations i am also sad for you.

Do tell me where would big corporations be without the regular citizens of the US?... The big corporations wouldn't exist and the US economy wouldn't be what it is now. People complain about the economy now? Try to imagine the US as a third world country.

Big companies need the regular citizens of the US just as much as we need them. Look around your room, there are all sorts of products that are made from plastics, and plastic comes from oil. Look at the food you eat everyday....the process to make that food uses also products which derive from oil, they are also transported by trucks that use oil....

How many people in here have artificial pacemakers? Although there have been some improvements in artificial pacemakers which are made of adult human stem cells, there are older people that still have the plastic artificial pacemakers. They wouldn't be here if there was no oil.

In capitalism you are going to have people that are richer than others. The beauty of capitalism is that anyone can succed if you have a revolutionary idea, or if you excell in any field. Not only big companies succed through capitalism, the regular citizens can excell too.


[edit on 16-2-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 02:40 PM
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Yes Muaddib...and that's reason enough to not to try and do anything to improve the environment, or anything else for that matter without considering how it affects the world as a whole.

Remember...no man is an island. We have to share this planet.

I'm not saying that capitalism is a bad thing...I just want you to look at who benefits the most from the things that are done or not done in this world. Its not you and me and that's for sure.



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 02:40 PM
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Yes Muaddib...and that's reason enough to not to try and do anything to improve the environment, or anything else for that matter without considering how it affects the world as a whole.

Remember...no man is an island. We have to share this planet.

I'm not saying that capitalism is a bad thing...I just want you to look at who benefits the most from the things that are done or not done in this world. Its not you and me and that's for sure.



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by AlwaysLearning
Yes Muaddib...and that's reason enough to not to try and do anything to improve the environment, or anything else for that matter without considering how it affects the world as a whole.
..................


Did i say that?.... Did you bother to read what I said in my previous post?....

Some people are expecting an overnight change from oil to a more environment friendly source of power....it is not going to happen.... changes come slow, they don't happen overnight, and more so when the economy of many countries in the world revolves around oil.



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 02:48 PM
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This topic is rife with links to propaganda and disinformation.

It's not "capitalism" or "jobs" that causes the US's position - it is being locked into obsolete heavy plant and machinery and gas guzzlers - all petrochemical dependent - with no long term vision.

The US remains the world's largest producer of pollution by far, and it's totally unsurprising given the Bush family's oil interests and the core business of so many crony companies that the Bush administration would continue to be out of step with the world on this amongst other things.



[edit on 16-2-2005 by MaskedAvatar]



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
... it's totally unsurprising given the Bush family's oil interests and the core business of so many crony companies that the Bush administration would continue to be out of step with the world on this amongst other things.



Ding, ding, ding, ding....give the man a prize 'cause you hit the nail on the head.





posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
Some people are expecting an overnight change from oil to a more environment friendly source of power....it is not going to happen.... changes come slow, they don't happen overnight, and more so when the economy of many countries in the world revolves around oil.


Yes, I read your post and to me it said what I responded to. I always try to look beyond the aspect of me, me, me...and look out for number 1, even though it will affect my comforts. Maybe I'm in a minority.

Change is not expected overnight, of course that would be unrealistic. Its a long time goal...a forever goal. And we've got to start somewhere. All of the nations who are able. My question is why not get on board and help Kyoto to become something positive. The U.S. is a major force in the world and could help lead the way... It will never rise to the challenge though because of the interests mentioned previously.



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
It's not "capitalism" or "jobs" that causes the US's position - it is being locked into obsolete heavy plant and machinery and gas guzzlers - all petrochemical dependent - with no long term vision.


You hit the bullseye MaskedAvatar!

Our country is HEAVILY dependant on consumer fuel taxes and the revenues it generates towards highway expansion, road repair etc. So for our nation to reinvent the wheel, being a switch to hybrid car technology that has been readily available since the 90's, would cause catastrophic damage to our economy and our politicians know it, and fear it!

For all you kyoto scabs who think otherwise, read this fools..

www.cbsnews.com...



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 04:28 PM
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Originally posted by AlwaysLearning

Yes, I read your post and to me it said what I responded to. I always try to look beyond the aspect of me, me, me...and look out for number 1, even though it will affect my comforts. Maybe I'm in a minority.
...........................


So you think it's all about comfort? i guess people with pacemakers were getting them to be in the trend and for comfort. I also guess that all the food that you are able to get to your table is for comfort...

It's not about me, me, me.....it's about finding suitable ways to change our dependancy in a manner that won't bankrupt the US or any other countries.....

If you want to talk about pollution, as another member mentioned, what about the clouds of pollution, and dust, that has come all the way to the states from China?..... We did not make those pollution clouds which we had last year or in 2003....

And you also think that countries like China and others are thinking only about the good of the environment?.....


The following is an excerpt about what the Chinese government exactly has in mind.


I. Unrestricted War

Unrestricted War: China’s Master Plan to Destroy America is a treatise for world domination written in 1999 by People’s Liberation Army Colonels Qiao Liang and Wang Xiangsui. In order for China to become a dominant global power over the United States, the PLA emphasizes “The Final War over Resources”, must be won.

The Colonels state that the aggressor nation “must adjust its own financial strategy, use currency revaluation or devaluation as primary weapons, and combine means such as getting the upper hand in public opinion and changing the rules sufficiently to make financial turbulence and economic crisis appear in the targeted country or area, weakening its overall power, including its military strength. Whether it be the intrusions of hackers, a major explosion at the World Trade Center, or a bombing attack by bin Laden, all of these greatly exceed the frequency bandwidths understood by the American military..."


Excerpted from.
www.321energy.com...

Let's see what the senior Colonels of the PLA had to say about 9/11...which casually they included in their book 3 years before it happened as a way for terrorists to wage war and as a way to take power away from the US....



Editor: Following the September 11, 2001 terrorist attack in the United States, the authors of the seminal 1999 Chinese People's Liberation Army text on 21st Century "assymetrical" warfare, titled Unrestricted Warfare, were interviewed in the September 13, 2001 People's Republic of China-owned Ta Kung Pao newspaper in Hong Kong. The following are excerpts from the interview with the military theorists, Senior Colonels Qiao Liang and Wang Xiangsui:

September 25
Hong Kong Ta Kang Pao: Qiao Liang and Wang Xiangsui foretold such a scenario of terrorists using high technological means to carry out attacks beyond the military scope in the 21st century to achieve military goals in their book Unrestricted Warfare, published in 1999. The large-scale terrorist attacks in Washington, D.C. and New York unfortunately were just like what they predicted.

Those carrying out the attacks were terrorists but not career military personnel, what they used were civilian airplanes but not military weapons, and what they attacked were international trade buildings but not military targets; however, the casualties and shock caused by the attacks were even more serious than those caused by a war. This is "unrestricted warfare" -- it goes beyond the scope of a military warfare but it achieves the objectives of fighting a war.

Colonels Qiao and Wang: "The series of attacks taking place in the United States were very dreary and terrifying, but they must not be viewed from a single perspective. While the thousands of innocent people killed or injured in the attacks were victims of terrorism, they also were victims of US foreign policy. The September 11, 2001 very likely is the beginning of the decline of the United States, as a superpower."
...........
Qiao Liang and Wang Xiangsui: "The attacks demonstrated the United States' fragility and weakness and showed that essentially it is unable to stand attacks. The National Missile Defense [NMD] system cannot save it.

"The United States, a giant 'tiger,' has been dealing with mice; unexpectedly, this time it was bitten by 'mice'; it has been wielding a large hammer but has been unable to find the flea. From a short-term perspective, the attacks in the United States will very likely have some effect on China's economy -- they might affect China's economic growth. However, from a long-term viewpoint, they could be favorable to China."


Excerpted from.
www.afpc.org...

You cannot seriously say that China wants any change so that they can be friendlier towards the environment.... The goal of the Chinese government is to have total control over resources, as they themselves are saying resources are running low...and of course to have the US bankrupt so they can be the next world power...


---edited for errors and to add comments---


[edit on 16-2-2005 by Muaddib]

[edit on 16-2-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by AlwaysLearning

PS India has signed onto the treaty as far as I know.



Ofcourse they are going to sign they dont have to cut back on emissions on bit just like China.

They get a free ride



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 07:19 PM
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Originally posted by Umbrax
Junkscience.com is registered to Steve Milloy.
You may of heard of him. He is a Fox News Commentator. I also pulled this info from the internet.



"Junkman" Steven Milloy has made a career of lobbying for polluting industries, heading corporate front groups to deny environmental concerns, and ridiculing individual environmentalists on behalf of corporate interests.
www.clearproject.org...





As documented by John Stauber, the Director of PR Watch, in his upcoming
book, Mr. Milloy is a long time tobacco lobbyist who has worked for Philip
Morris (since 1992) and Brown and Williamson. In 1997 he was named head of the
Philip Morris-created group The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition. This
was based at Milloy's lobbying firm, EOP, where clients also included the
Nuclear Energy Institute, Dow Chemical, The American Crop Protection
Association (pesticide manufacturers), the Chlorine Chemistry Council and the
American Petroleum Institute.
lists.isb.sdnpk.org...


Who benefits?


Classic 'ad hominum' tactic and strategy, Umbrax.

As such, care to debunk what they are saying or indicating?
Maybe you and syntaxer:

as posted by Syntaxer
For all you kyoto scabs who think otherwise, read this fools...

....could debunk Cato.org (Cato Institute), also while avoiding debunking what they are saying, as well? As related to the:


...testimony on the science of climate change as it pertains to the Kyoto Protocol to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change.

Kyoto Protocol: "A useless appendage to an irrelevant treaty"





seekerof

[edit on 16-2-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 07:35 PM
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The task of critiquing the Cato Institute has been delegated to me.

It is done very well here:

world.std.com...

As in all such things, the Cato Institute "says" and "indicates" what dominant interest groups tell it to "say" and "indicate". It is a front for lobbying the positions of dominant corporations, nothing more nothing less.



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