Munchausen by proxy possibly on the rise in the US and world?

I listen to report after report about parents with children who have horrific conditions and some that have conditions that have become much more common recently. When I hear that a child of 14 months being diagnosed with ADD/ADHD and autism I have to really wonder if the child was ever given a chance to find themselves and work through any internal struggle or dialouge which I believe is natural for every child and every child will develop skills and traits at different rates. If I remember correctly Einstein was thought to be retarded as he didn't speak until almost 4 and I believe Winston Churchill was similar in that fact. Many children have trouble expressing themselves and I think a lot of that has to do with their enviornment and how they see others interacting.

Now when I say Munchausen by proxy could be on the rise, I'm not necessarily saying that it is in the traditional sense where a care taker is out right poisoning the child or causing physical harm, though putting a toddler on stimulants is, in my opinion a form of abuse especially when I hear the reasons from the (usually mother) about the reasons that they need it such as, "they don't sit still, they are always getting into things, they act up, they don't let me get any rest (and by this I think they mean they don't get their 8-10 hours of beauty sleep and not 2-3 hours or rest between feedings/sleep/naps). I've heard mothers talking about their children as if they expected a super human delivered out of the box (saying these mothers have a womb is being generous).

On top of all of this, almost all of them seem to give their children formula and often a vegetable base (soy) formula of some kind instead of traditional animal milk like goat, sheep or cow and it seems totally out of the question for some of these women to actually breast feed their children. I think breast feeding may be one of the most important aspects of an infant's and toddlers life and it is one of the most important times to bond with the child and form a life long intimate relationship and I can garuntee that when the child doesn't get this it leaves a huge void in their life and I suspect it increases the chances for psychopathy and sociopathy on top of a lot of other mental illness conditions (schizophrenia and bi-polar have been suggested as well).

Just because a child can't communicate on the same level as adults, it doesn't mean that they can't communicate and I beleive that other infants and toddlers have the ability to communicate clearly with each other and especially with animals. i've seen some amazing things with young children (say 3 and younger) interacting with what most adults would consider viscious animals (usually dogs) and they seem to be best friends and naturally protective and loving of each other.

I think this phenomenom stems from the "ME ME ME" mentality that has permeated our society since the beginning of the Boomer generation and it has been passed down, been augmented and in many cases magnified to the extent that they only think of children as a symbol for social status, a way to prove to others that they are "good", fertile, loving, etc or else they wouldn't have been able to have children - and worst of all as a means of getting a larger governement check, more child support or as a way of tratping a man. Some of these types really look down on couoles who can not conceive and think themselves so superior but I'd like to point out that not everyone has the same path in life and those people should mind their own Fin business.

As I said before there are different levels of this "disease" (is it really a disease or a disorder, or what??) and I have to wonder if I was victim of this for many years of my childhood as there were SO many unexplained sicknesses which doctors could not explain yet I was in terrible agony until I left for college and then things seemed to just clear up for the most part. I also had 2 guardians/caretakers/parents who went to the doctors more than anyone I've ever met, had more surgeries between the two than an entire NFL football team and I had to constantly hear about their ill's, pains, hardships and they were always "yeah but this pain is so much worse than what other people have because I have such a high pain tolerance" and other things such as that. There was always a miricale story about how the doctors couldnt' beleive they could walk into the office with the amount of pain that XXXX injury was causing. Having watched this grow up I learned to not complain about pain under any circumstance unless it was something where I thought I was in serious life or death situation. Have a severely sprained ankle? Play the entire football game (having to walk 1/2 mile to and from field 4 times during game (Suitup in locker room -> warmups on field -> locker room -> out for first 1/2 -> locker room for 1/2 time -> field for 2nd half -> locker room because of lightening striking stadium lights blackout -> back to field to finish game -> back to locker room - for total of 4 miles plus the drills and game! this was all in 2-3" of thick mud that formed suction on ankle on every step - I just wanted to die but I would not say a word about the pain or complain - I REALLY should have asked to have it wrapped by the trainer instead of just lacing up high top cleats really tight) This lead to bad damage of my ankle and maybe an extra 3 weeks in healing. But that was my seinior year and that was my choice - but it stemmed from my enviornment.

Every Christmas my large family would gather at my grandmothers on Christmas day. Being the "black sheep" (so I was told by my cousins) I was always picked on and tourtured somewhat. In 4th grade I found myself extremely ill about 20-30 mins after arriving (stomach bug like no other - severe pain & irritable bowls, 103 temp, vomit, etc) I was put in a room on the far end of the house for the entire day from 11am till about 12am with a couple visits over the day. An inner voice told me that they didn't want me down there and this wasn't natural.

365 days later to just about the minute, I got the same symptoms and was quaranteined in a room by myself for the rest of the day with nothing to do but read my grandma's magazines. I was given some nasty soup (a kind I would never eat - tomato) and oyster crackers, which I absolutely hate, while they feasted all day, played games, opened presents, etc. I'd be lucky if someone stopped up every 3 hours or so.

Well, wouldn't you know it, but 365 day again, to the hour, I suffered the same symptoms and now I was older (6th grade) and they had finally gotten cable in one room (basic) so at least I could watch some crappy TV. I think that may have been part of the plan because I only saw a few people a coupld times over the day. When I asked, how could this happen to me 3 years in a row and no one else has ever gotten sick, and we had all eaten the same meals (as far as I know) I was told by my parents about how many times they were sick as a child, how many holidays they spent by themselves sick and that some others downstairs didn't feel "so hot" for the whole day (could have been the massive amounts of alcohol, buckets of shrimp and pounds and pounds of cheese, hourderves, heavy meals (prime rib) while I was served chicken broth soup with saltines on 2 occasions along with 1/2 water 1/2 gingerale. When I said I think I was poisoned I caught the ire of my

Continued:::: When I said I think I was poisoned because no one else is ever sick on this day and we all eat the same thing, I was told that I was being an ungrateful child and I had no idea how much they did for me and that I was being extremely selfish for even thinking that they didn't have my best interest at heart.


What I found out later was that during these days, my cousins and sister got LOTS of Christmas presents (I got some as well, but it was no comparison when looking at who received what - My grandmother gave me a fork from an airline flight meal service utensil that had the air lines logo stamped on it, I was like WTF... Was I really supposed to say thank you for this? But no matter how #ty the gift (meaning it was something that was just rude or something that I would NEVER want or ever use - they didn't care to buy something I would like) I was forced to "kiss the ring" (which was kissing an old lady with halitosis that made me want to vomit every time) and if I didn't, I'd get reamed out on the way home and at home punished some how and have to do things to make up for it. It felt like total extortion. I also found out that there were very large checks being handed out to the grandchildren and parents and I was told "you never discuss gifts or money with others, it is just not proper and a gentlemen doesn't do these things." I was also told that everyone was treated fairly and equally, but IDK what that means, because I've seen some checks that had a couple to few more zero's than mine but if I brought that up, I'd get in trouble for snooping and that would mean the end of any future gifts and punishment in the future.

What was so F'd up about all of this, I was the child (in my house) that did the lions share of the house work, like 25/1 between me and my sister from cutting wood, splitting, stacking, hauling, stacking, bringing inside, to lawn care - mowing 3-4 acres every 3-5 days in the spring & fall (on top of mowing 2 neighbors lawns, one of which always tried to get out of paying) and tons of other stuff on the large acreage (43) that we had. On top of playing 2-3 sports a year and having a REAL job from the time I was 16 - where my sister didn't do anything around the house work wise, maybe clean a bathroom once every month or 6 weeks and never had a job until after her sophomore year of college! Yet I was always the problem child (father made a point of this by irate tirades on a regular basis for some of the most minor things to things that I was told to do but after being done, he didn't like the outcome so screaming and berating me in front of 30 family friends (many of my peers) seemed like the best option for him to save face.

So many years have past and I have poor health and I think it is from having to bottle up all the animosity and emotional and physical pain I've had to deal with all my life all while seeing my parents either not work, or "work from home...." and telling me about how the job market works even though fathers first job out of college was with his father then took over the company and then was pushed out (so I'm told) b/c people couldn't get along with him so he sold and "worked for himself" but is somehow an expert in the job market even though I've had at least 12 jobs (all good reviews except 1) and 8 contract positions. I have to listen to their medical problems when I see them just as active as they were 30+ years ago while my body, soul and persona have been ground into the ground by them (i've left out 90% of the worst stuff) and have to deal with such severe pain that I can barely function on days but hear them complain about their EXTREME pain but then I see them do things I could only dream of doing on a good day of pain management.

They are both boomers and I have to say that one of the biggest disappointments of growing up is learning who my parents are, and that they don't know everything, don't have all the answers and that many of their answers/suggestions seem to be worst that those I would get from a 2nd grader at times. I even question their college diplomas when I can answer questions about their majors better than they and I studied in a FAR FAR different field. It feels like they are COMPLETELY different people than they were even just 4 years ago, like they have been replaced with some burnt out stoners who eat more food between the two of then than I could ever think of (at 1/2 the amount and they are 35 years older than me!!) They have trapped me financially in some ways it feels and the same thing is playing out that happened with Christmas presents with Sis & cousins getting nice new expensive homes while, well I won't depress myself by writing this.

I have plenty of ideas, have a business degree and a natural knack for all sorts of business (and electronics, computers, chemistry, Wood working, metal working, DIY just about everything) and I just want to have something that can support myself while providing a service or good that others will enjoy (that doesn't detract from society) but the amount of positive support from those who are supposed to be close to me seems condescending, belittling and most other negative connotations you can imagine - though it is sometimes cloaked in positive responses but it turns into passive aggressive negativity subtly explaining anything I ever did wrong or when things didn't work out. The think is I learn well from most mistakes (as long as there is hope for improvement) but some people just want to keep that one person in the family as the failure so it makes their failures look less drastic or horrifying and my dream is to invert this and have them be as horrified as I have been suppressed and maligned over the years.

I'm sorry you've endured so much pain and angst over this, and I hope it becomes clear to you soon, today hopefully, that you need to purge all them from your life. Sever the ties altogether, and don't inform them if it's really been as bad as you say. Just do it.

edit - nothing you've described sounds like Munchausen by Proxy. Mothers do that for attention for themselves "the good mother". For example, the day were sick instead of putting you in a back room, she would have rushed you to the hospital and wept and been so concerned and upset that you were ill, for the attention for herself, you see.

Sounds like you are the family scapegoat, which is hard to fix, and often not successful. As I said earlier, just sever the ties. If they want you back, they will let you know, and maybe then you can talk.

originally posted by: angeldoll
I'm sorry you've endured so much pain and angst over this, and I hope it becomes clear to you soon, today hopefully, that you need to purge all them from your life. Sever the ties altogether, and don't inform them if it's really been as bad as you say. Just do it.

edit - nothing you've described sounds like Munchausen by Proxy. Mothers do that for attention for themselves "the good mother". For example, the day were sick instead of putting you in a back room, she would have rushed you to the hospital and wept and been so concerned and upset that you were ill, for the attention for herself, you see.

Sounds like you are the family scapegoat, which is hard to fix, and often not successful. As I said earlier, just sever the ties. If they want you back, they will let you know, and maybe then you can talk.

I agree with you about my situation not being MBP but my opening few paragraphs seems to be a forms of it, possibly not the traditional form where the parent seeks comfort from medical staff due to a child's illness, but where they seek attention from others to pity them, support them, etc much like an emotional vampire.


As for my situation, it is really difficult to tell what is right/wrong because it is all I have ever known and when I see other families, I only see glimpses and snapshots of them. One thing that was really eye opening to me was the first time I had a very serious girlfriend and I think I fell in love with her family as much (or maybe even more at times) and I enjoyed spending time with them, could actually talk about REAL things (not just "captain obvious statements which seems to be what I get in my family, nothing personal, but statements of the obvious on their part, while on my part, I tell them things that are real and if I need advice or suggestions or help, it's always "I don't know", or they never listen to me when I tell them that I don't think a DR's diagnosis is right - they just fight me and want me to get surgery and try to scare me into it by telling me that it could get so bad that you could go to the hospital and there is nothing they can do for you - and it isn't such a major issue - gall stones - which I don't think it is/was at all - nore did the doctors at a hospital from when I was out of country - buy they then just get pissed and say "then why the hell woudl you even ask me if you weren't going to take my advice. Figure it out yourself" - My response would be, "I was trying to explain where I was coming from and why I think how I do and why I feel this way" - the rebuttal would be something like "you just do what you want and live with the consequences".

I've tried to make lists of situations and conversations where they totally disrepect my thoughts or opinions and either become violent (extremely angry and verbally belligerant), threaten to have me evicted or arrested from my house (which they have told me for 12 years that the house is mine, but it is in parents name) and use money as a weapon (on top of possibly interfering with my social assistance application then making me feel guilty about not being able to get it). When they are mad at something and I explain the reason for the situation (which often stems from actions or more like orders from them) they just tell me I always have an excuse. The funny thing is that when I was healthy and lived by myself (with roomates and girlfriends), I never had one single problem like this and people came to me for help, sure there would be occasional disagreements but not like what comes from my family. I just don't know how to get out of the trap that I've been put into and don't even know the first place to look to get out of this.

I'm wondering if there are any exercises to determine what kind of relationship I have and how much of it is my fault vs how much is manipulation to make it feel like my fault. I read a book called Toxic Parents about 15 years ago and after the first chapter, I stayed up for about 18 hours to finish it, if that says anything.

I'm on the Autism rollercoaster right now.

My son didn't even try to speak words until he was 2.5... He turned 3 last month, and he was diagnosed with Autism at the start of the year.

Fast forward to yesterday- His speech therapist told me he hates that diagnosis being thrown around, and that my son has come so far with his speech since he started talking that he suspects we won't need his services past this summer. Now, if you're not me or his father, you'd still have a great deal of difficulty understanding him but as his therapist sees it, he said he wouldn't be surprised if we are told in the future that he was misdiagnosed or at the very least if they keep the diagnosis that hes so high functioning he isn't worried about him in the least.

Its amazing to think he went from no speech, hardly even cried as an infant, to the little chatter box he is now. He can't make a lot of consonant noises when he is speaking English, but as I've mentioned before in other threads he's taught himself the Russian alphabet with his tablet, which forced mommy to learn as he wants me to sing it to him EVERY DAY. He says those sounds perfectly. I don't understand, but I guess I don't really care as long as he can take care of himself and function with minimal assistance.

At this point I've decided if he has autism then so do I. and If I'm "normal" then so is he.

I will say the thing about the diagnosis I'm thankful for is all the help it's qualified him for, and got him right into preschool with out having to deal with the "lottery" system our district does. Thats the only thing that changed. Lincoln is still the sweet and amazing baby he has always been. The only reason I had him evaluated was pressure from family that he wasn't like a typical newborn and admittedly they were right on all accounts. We were quite worried about his speech, all of us were talking by 1 year (me and my siblings) I just wanted to make sure he would get whatever advantage in life he could.

Then his paternal grandmother told me that Linc's father did not speak words until 3.5 and went to full blown coherent sentences at 4. I've chalked it up to it is what it is, and it will be what it will be. All I can do is try to be the best mother no matter what words or labels are suggested and get him every step up in life that I can, while teaching him to do it for himself as time goes on.

Your thread is very interesting. I'll probably read it over a few more times and do some more thinking on it. Thanks for sharing this suggestion.


-Alee

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

The keyword is proxy.

It's probably a mother's way of expressing her emotional state in the worst possible way-through her children.When I was about four I nearly got sucked into a storm water drain and nearly drowned, and the last thing I saw was my mother grinning at me, luckily a young lad pulled me out and my father was very grateful to the kid and very angry at my mother (my father did something worse to me but that's another story) but I believe that my mother was just trying to reach out and get some love and attention at my expense. I don't blame her, it's not entirely her fault but it is her fault when I get panic attacks when I have a shower.

I think MBP is a sick way to garner love or attention, or possibly it could be another form of post natal depression. But deliberately making a child sick is a worry and perhaps the rise in MBP could be linked to financial troubles.

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
a reply to: DigginFoTroof

The keyword is proxy.

It's probably a mother's way of expressing her emotional state in the worst possible way-through her children.When I was about four I nearly got sucked into a storm water drain and nearly drowned, and the last thing I saw was my mother grinning at me, luckily a young lad pulled me out and my father was very grateful to the kid and very angry at my mother (my father did something worse to me but that's another story) but I believe that my mother was just trying to reach out and get some love and attention at my expense. I don't blame her, it's not entirely her fault but it is her fault when I get panic attacks when I have a shower.

I think MBP is a sick way to garner love or attention, or possibly it could be another form of post natal depression. But deliberately making a child sick is a worry and perhaps the rise in MBP could be linked to financial troubles.

Awh man. I'm sorry to know that happened to you. Wish it hadn't. My parents have always said my sister has Munchauesens ever since she was a pre teen. I figured they were just joking because our parents can be assholes like that but then I had my son, and every time she is near him she is obnoxious gets in his face, takes him out of the room and "Surprise" he gets hurt somehow.

The most recent time she said she was going to help him use the potty because supposedly he said he need to "potty" so 3 mins later i hear SCREAMING. I mean screaming like I heard when he split his face open and needed stitches.

I RAN to the bathroom at my moms and as soon as I opened the bathroom door she starts cussing me out as if I did something wrong. Cussing me out for swinging the bathroom door open too quickly. She said she didn't know how but somehow in this tiny bathroom that can barely fit one person she turned her back on my 3 year old long enough and he somehow climbed up onto the sink that he isn't tall enough to reach, and turned on the scolding hot water. Now that facuet takes a good 30 to 45 seconds to heat up to the point where its warm enough for use. So my son is sitting here screaming because his hands were held under scolding hot water. Theres no effing way. She held him there and burned him with the water. That's all I can believe, knowing how she is. That was the last straw for me when it comes to her being around my child alone. I don't understand if he wasn't on the toilet and she wasn't on the toilet (sitting on the toilet faces the door and the sink. There is no way to not see what is going on in the bathroom from the toilet) then wtf was she doing?!

Sadly Lincs father said she could move in with us when she was tired of living with our mom and dad and now I just live with constant worry that I cant leave my own sister who i love around my kid unsupervised because there is SOMETHING going on with her and I don't like it.



-Alee
-Alee

Munchhausen's disease by proxy is a very real, very serious psychological disorder, and not at all what you are describing. Those parents cause their children to develop actual physical symptoms of diseases by poisoning or other methods, and it typically results in the death of those children before the underlying cause can be discovered.

What you are talking about is a form of hypochondria mixed with entitlement and laziness. It's simpler to medicate than to actually parent a child. It is absurd, and disturbing that physicians actually support this. And it is extremely prevalent in society today.

Munchhausen's by proxy is not prevalent. It is still, thankfully, fairly rare. Autism and such used to be fairly rare too...until people started forcing it to fit something that it actually is not, and in the process cheapened what is actually a very serious disorder that only affects a small percentage of children. Kind of the same way the OP is cheapening a very serious condition by claiming it has become commonplace, when it has not.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

I am so sorry you had to grow up this way and have all that still swirling through your mind. The unanswered questions, the constant need for validation, the ongoing mental torture. Remember when you are feeling lost or down that just because they are your "blood" you do not have to put up with it, or keep such people in your life. You are now the master of your life and future! All the best to you.

Toxic families/bullying/scapegoats
This may help: www.mentalhelp.net...

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Everything is in your mind. Just influence your life. You should experience only positive emotions every day, no matter what. So please just spent less time on what makes you feel bad