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originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: silo13
Any chance you're heard faith alone is dead?
Meaning faith without works is dead...
Grace is a whitewash... Paulianity is a whitewash
Jesus did not teach grace... In fact he didn't even use the word once in the gospels
You seem to make everything he actually taught null and void
originally posted by: Ursushorribilis
Modern day Christianity preaches of Eternal Hellfire. In my opinion this concept of Hell was created to scare and convert people of different beliefs.
Logically it just doesn't make sense.
1. The punishment doesn't fit the crime.
30 years of adultery, or whatever your vice is, doesn't equate to eternal Hellfire.
2. It's anti-christian. Christianity preaches love and forgiveness. Hellfire is in direct conflict with the entire message of Christianity.
What do you think?
There the wicked cease from turmoil,
and there the weary are at rest.
Captives also enjoy their ease;
they no longer hear the slave driver’s shout.
The small and the great are there,
and the slaves are freed from their owners.
originally posted by: silo13
The fact is - when we are under the grace of Jesus, we will naturally want to do good works -
Grace is whitewash? Seriously? Want to explain that?
Can you even imagine? Standing before a judge when you KNOW you are guilty? When you know you're going to the electric chair or the gas chamber, the noose or the firing squad... And JUST BEFORE the judge pronounced sentence - In walked a man who said, 'Your honor, I'm willing to take the place for this poor soul who's facing death'. The judge gangs his gavel and tells you to walk free in peace. And that man, takes your death on himself.
originally posted by: Agree2Disagree
a reply to: Soulece
Not a Christian... but if you were to subscribe to my system of beliefs... if this theoretical person were to actually exist, they would enter directly into Gan Eden, or the modern day equivalent of heaven...
Hold on there. Repeatable observation prove no such things as "under the grace of Jesus, we will naturally want to do good works"
We "naturally" do good works because of realization and experience.
We learn to respect others and earn other people's respect in return, NOT because the grace of Jesus, but because of our parents, teachers, friends and others. All this good will, is also taught by Hindu, Buddha, Tao, Confucius, Shinto, Ancient Sumerian and Babylons , etc.. long before Jesus even exist. A pagan mother does not require Jesus grace to naturally teach her children how to behave and do good things.
"Naturally" We are still part of animal that drive on basic instinct for survival and reproduction, by any means necessary including doing bad things. Competition drive greed and jealousy which in turn motivate us to "cheat" and do many bad things. We are very still that part of animal. The only difference is we have better control over what we perceive as "good or bad"
t doesn't need to be in Jesus grace to "naturally will do good works".
Earthly Jesus doesn't live eternally to offer his grace.
Neither he's everywhere. Jesus didn't even leave Israel during his lifetime. Without faithful people who continue to do his missionary works, Jesus words and grace will never reach worldwide.