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The Myth of Hell

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posted on Feb, 9 2018 @ 01:23 PM
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a reply to: Akragon

We'll be angels. Free to explore the universe and have the knowledge of knowing where all the hidden relics and treasures on Earth are. Free to come and go as we please and visit our living friends and relatives, have conversations with Spartacus and found out how the pyramids were really built, see our old animals we loved so much, and best of all, we'll be able to float.




posted on Feb, 9 2018 @ 01:32 PM
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originally posted by: WeRpeons
a reply to: Ursushorribilis

I agree with your perspective. However, if God created everything we know, he also created good and evil. The bible has some conflicting statements when most of us believe in an all loving God. The question I always had, "if God wanted everyone to follow his word, why didn't he create clear cut scriptures and concrete evidence of his wishes? Why did he allow various interpretations of his sacred scriptures to occur? Why not establish one unequivocal true religion?

I also have a tough time understanding evil spirits. Why would he allow them to exist and temp his creations?

Whether everyone wants to admit it, we're all clueless on why we are here let alone the impact and reason of the universe on our lives. Sometimes I and I'm sure many others feel our life on earth is hell. We sure have a lot of violence, murders and evil preventing us from having world peace.

It's a scary thing to even think Hell could be real. After all, isn't God also supposed to be an all forgiving God?



Freedom to choose, and have faith. God IS the all forgiving God, do you believe in Him and have you ever asked for forgiveness?



posted on Feb, 9 2018 @ 01:35 PM
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originally posted by: dug88

originally posted by: CreationBro
a reply to: Ursushorribilis

Im fairly certain a sort of tailored "Hell" exists.


On that note, I've personally come to believe any visions of heaven or hell come from the flash of '___' that goes through your brain when you die. If you feel at piece and lack regrets or a guilty conscious you'll have a heavenly end of life trip if not your own brain will torture you.


That was a good movie. You're talking about Flatliners, right?



posted on Feb, 9 2018 @ 01:36 PM
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I am of the opinion that "hell" refers to two situations, one while alive and the "afterlife."

While alive, we can choose to live in a very real hell. Simple enough, and many do just that.

After death, I view it as referring to a very real "separation from God." Where, the only way to achieve this when dealing with an omnipresent system is the complete and total dissolution of said being. This would be an eternal result, innately.

I suppose we will all find out eventually, or.. not.



posted on Feb, 9 2018 @ 02:06 PM
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a reply to: Ursushorribilis

Here's a thought I found interesting if you'll bear with me for a few moments.

Iain M Banks was a great sci-fi writer who published a book about a world with an artificial Hell. It was a simulated Hell that had all the reality of the Hell you refer to.


In Surface Detail, thousands of races throughout the universe are consigning the souls of their people to eternity within digital hells. These virtual hells have become connected and are now host to a virtual war between supporters and opponents of the hells, including the Culture, who understandably regard torturing the damned as a rather uncivilized practice.
Sci-Fi Writer Iain Banks Talks Surface Detail's Hell, Creationist Heresy

I won't spoil the ending...

There's a radio show called The Infinite Monkey Cage with astrophysicist Brian Cox as host. Last year they discussed the concept of 'simulated reality' and they couldn't debunk the possibility that we live in one. It's not an idea I subscribe to, but it's a hypothetical possibility. They weren't saying we do live in one and, if you've heard Cox before, you'll know he's a very rational thinker.



*If* we exist in some constructed reality, it's possible to include a Hell. It would side-step the arguments of fairness or proportionate consequences for what are deemed as immoral or blasphemous thoughts and deeds. It'd be down to the architecture and ethos of whatever created it.



posted on Feb, 9 2018 @ 02:23 PM
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originally posted by: Thirty6BelowZero
a reply to: Akragon

We'll be angels. Free to explore the universe and have the knowledge of knowing where all the hidden relics and treasures on Earth are. Free to come and go as we please and visit our living friends and relatives, have conversations with Spartacus and found out how the pyramids were really built, see our old animals we loved so much, and best of all, we'll be able to float.


That sounds wonderful

Lets hope eh




posted on Feb, 9 2018 @ 04:35 PM
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a reply to: Soulece

Naw, buddy. You said the following:

I challenge you. Say a person does nothing but good things in their life, helps out the needy, sacrifices their own well being for the comfort of others in a time of need, etc. They are also not a believer in Jesus Christ. Do they "burn forever" in hell?

EDIT: In fact, I present this challenge to anyone who says they are an intelligent religious person.

Maybe you originally meant your question for Christians. But in your admitted arrogance, you edited your post & expanded the scope of your challenge to "anyone" that claims to be "an intelligent religious person". Hence my response.
edit on 9-2-2018 by enlightenedservant because: format



posted on Feb, 9 2018 @ 04:56 PM
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originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: Soulece

Naw, buddy. You said the following:

I challenge you. Say a person does nothing but good things in their life, helps out the needy, sacrifices their own well being for the comfort of others in a time of need, etc. They are also not a believer in Jesus Christ. Do they "burn forever" in hell?

EDIT: In fact, I present this challenge to anyone who says they are an intelligent religious person.

Maybe you originally meant your question for Christians. But in your admitted arrogance, you edited your post & expanded the scope of your challenge to "anyone" that claims to be "an intelligent religious person". Hence my response.

Ok, fair, I can see where you'd say that. I should change that to christians and not religious people. I do believe in God, its not satan, its not like everyone else's god either. But I love challenging beliefs.



posted on Feb, 9 2018 @ 06:05 PM
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originally posted by: Abednego
a reply to: Lazarus Short

I understand the issue. But we have to take into account what the writer was seeing. The writer saw two separates places, not the same one. That is why he describe them using different words.

The burning sulfur; Here the writer describe this lake of burning sulfur, that tells us that the writer knows what sulfur is. Also it burns different that just fire.

The lake of fire; Here the writer saw a lake of fire, but he does not describe it of been of sulfur.

And being so close in the same text
, it would has been better to write "...they were thrown into the same burning lake..."


I have given this some thought, and I suspect the answer lies in the mathematical needs of the text, a la Panin. At any rate, God's fire (the Lake of Fire is not Hellfire, just as the LoF is not ID'd as Hell) is for refining and purification, and so was brimstone (sulfur) in those days. However, I will leave room for your interpretation to be correct.



posted on Feb, 9 2018 @ 06:53 PM
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a reply to: Soulece


I challenge you. Say a person does nothing but good things in their life, helps out the needy, sacrifices their own well being for the comfort of others in a time of need, etc. They are also not a believer in Jesus Christ. Do they "burn forever" in hell?

EDIT: In fact, I present this challenge to anyone who says they are an intelligent religious person. Either you cannot explain it, accept the ideals may be wrong, or you find a way to send a good person to hell, in which is being anti christian. It's an arrogant win-win for me in this scenario. This is something I love presenting to people who believe they know the answers because of the bible saying so.


Let me start when you're a child. Have you ever told your child, or were told as a child, not to eat the sweet before a meal? And when you were found out, you hid the sweet behind your back?

We were all born in a 'sin nature'.

Later - well... Have you ever lied? Looked on a woman or aman with lust? Stollen?

NO ONE is sin free. No one.

I've got a great friend, love him to death, and he's a 'devote agnostic.' He takes people to cancer appointments, feeds the poor, gives credit to those who have no money.

Regardless? He's a sinner.

If we were to think we could 'earn' our way to heaven? That achievement would be subject to our WORKS.

WORKS can NEVER get us to heaven.

Only the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ can.

And it's offered freely.

Can you even imagine? Standing before a judge when you KNOW you are guilty? When you know you're going to the electric chair or the gas chamber, the noose or the firing squad... And JUST BEFORE the judge pronounced sentence - In walked a man who said, 'Your honor, I'm willing to take the place for this poor soul who's facing death'. The judge gangs his gavel and tells you to walk free in peace. And that man, takes your death on himself.

Just think about that a minute.

How greatful would you be?

It's that simple. Christ is that simple. By His grace, you are saved.

There's nothing 'foul' in that, nothing cemented in religiosity.

It's just a simple fact that you're on death row - because you cannot ever 'earn' your way into heaven - and on death row, Christ steps in ans says "I'll take your place. Now go on to eternity with no tears, no fear, no hate, no terror, no affliction...and on and on'.

It's the best.



posted on Feb, 9 2018 @ 06:56 PM
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originally posted by: Thirty6BelowZero
a reply to: Akragon

We'll be angels. Free to explore the universe and have the knowledge of knowing where all the hidden relics and treasures on Earth are. Free to come and go as we please and visit our living friends and relatives, have conversations with Spartacus and found out how the pyramids were really built, see our old animals we loved so much, and best of all, we'll be able to float.


You're on the right tack but we will never be angels.

First, men were made just a 'little less' than angels.

Also - the reason why Lucifer left heaven with 1/3 of the angels was the angels were told - 'Man will command you. Will be your 'better' (loose translation).

Well Lucifer was going to have NONE of that.

And - there are no female angels in the bible - yet - women will go to heaven, be 'raised up', as will men.

So no, we'll not be angles. We'll be better.



posted on Feb, 9 2018 @ 07:49 PM
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originally posted by: silo13

Second - Sin - is sin. Without Christ? You're going to be toast. It's not a pleasant thought, but it's a truth. There can be no justice without consequences.

That is why sin is illogical. If you do not receive Christ, you are sinner. There were billions people on earth before Christ even exist. Is everyone of them sinners? What about aliens? Are other sentients sinners too?


originally posted by: silo13
Yes, Christ is the message of love and forgiveness. Without it? You will take the consequences of sin.

Isn't it great that all we have to do is believe on Christ - and we bypass all the hellfire crap?

Pretty simple message that.

Unfortunately, Christ did not message the first human ever created by God, that is Adam. God didn't even tell Adam what the hell Christ message is about. No baptism, No salvation through Christ whatsoever, etc.. Does that mean Adam and Eve are going to hell too?

I seriously doubt it. Not to mention early Adam's children committed incest because there were no one else exist at that time. And incest is a sin. But it's god's will for human to "multiply" according to Genesis. So, god command Adam to sin, then throw him to hell for that?


originally posts by: silo13
For God SO LOVED the world, He gave His only begotten son, so whosoever believes in Him will NOT perish, but, have EVERLASTING LIFE!

WOOOHOOO!

Best. Thing. Ever!


If God so love the universe and life He created, He would not do that stupid thing. God creation is not ALL about earth, Israelites and Jesus. There are far more to it then anyone could imagine. Not even Christ knows what beyond our galaxies and our universe.

If Christian believe in angels, devils and monsters, then they should also believe that Jews is not the only creation that God love. Neither do Christian and Jesus.

Love is universal. It does not discriminate anyone no matter what you believe in. Just ask any parents. It doesn't matter what their child believe, they will love them equally and will never condemn their child forever.



posted on Feb, 9 2018 @ 07:58 PM
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originally posted by: Soulece

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: Soulece



EDIT: In fact, I present this challenge to anyone who says they are an intelligent religious person. Either you cannot explain it, accept the ideals may be wrong, or you find a way to send a good person to hell, in which is being anti christian. It's an arrogant win-win for me in this scenario. This is something I love presenting to people who believe they know the answers because of the bible saying so.

You know that there are other religions in the world that have a "Heaven" yet don't worship Jesus, right? In other words, your "arrogant win-win for me" scenario fails when applied to virtually any religion that isn't Christianity.


Well my question is for all these people in this thread saying if you dont believe in Christ you go to hell. So no, it does not fail. I'm well aware there are other religions in the world.


Well in reality you go to hell (separation from God) because of the law. Belief in Christ frees you from the law.



posted on Feb, 9 2018 @ 08:01 PM
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a reply to: silo13

You're dodging the question but giving me an unnecessary amount of analogies that is related to "being a sinner" and "salvation through christ can be learned" and "jesus is the only way"

Well, lets get back on track. This excellent human I brought up in my original challenge to you dies not accepting Jesus as their lord and savior. But this person, again, has some nothing but good in their life and helped others. Does this person not get granted into the supposed heaven instantly upon death? If he/she does not, that is contradicting. See this question is hard. It's for the intellectual that isnt just speaking words, but thinks. And this is why I like challenging people with it. 9/10 times the person will dodge it.
edit on 9-2-2018 by Soulece because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2018 @ 08:03 PM
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originally posted by: SkeptiSchism

originally posted by: Soulece

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: Soulece



EDIT: In fact, I present this challenge to anyone who says they are an intelligent religious person. Either you cannot explain it, accept the ideals may be wrong, or you find a way to send a good person to hell, in which is being anti christian. It's an arrogant win-win for me in this scenario. This is something I love presenting to people who believe they know the answers because of the bible saying so.

You know that there are other religions in the world that have a "Heaven" yet don't worship Jesus, right? In other words, your "arrogant win-win for me" scenario fails when applied to virtually any religion that isn't Christianity.


Well my question is for all these people in this thread saying if you dont believe in Christ you go to hell. So no, it does not fail. I'm well aware there are other religions in the world.


Well in reality you go to hell (separation from God) because of the law. Belief in Christ frees you from the law.



So a good person can go to hell. That is not God. Thats an asshole with pride issues. Hey, that sort of sounds like somebody else...
edit on 9-2-2018 by Soulece because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2018 @ 08:10 PM
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a reply to: Soulece
According to christian, everyone is a sinner by simply being born. It does not matter what you did. You need to be a Christian to save yourself, which is ironic, because most christian do not believe in what they are taught. Otherwise, they wouldn't become hypocrite.



posted on Feb, 9 2018 @ 08:13 PM
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originally posted by: Soulece

originally posted by: SkeptiSchism

originally posted by: Soulece

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: Soulece



EDIT: In fact, I present this challenge to anyone who says they are an intelligent religious person. Either you cannot explain it, accept the ideals may be wrong, or you find a way to send a good person to hell, in which is being anti christian. It's an arrogant win-win for me in this scenario. This is something I love presenting to people who believe they know the answers because of the bible saying so.

You know that there are other religions in the world that have a "Heaven" yet don't worship Jesus, right? In other words, your "arrogant win-win for me" scenario fails when applied to virtually any religion that isn't Christianity.


Well my question is for all these people in this thread saying if you dont believe in Christ you go to hell. So no, it does not fail. I'm well aware there are other religions in the world.


Well in reality you go to hell (separation from God) because of the law. Belief in Christ frees you from the law.



So a good person can go to hell. That is not God. Thats an asshole with pride issues. Hey, that sort of sounds like somebody else...


All Abrahamic religions are assholes with pride issue. It's not the deed that's matter. It's about conquest and control.



posted on Feb, 9 2018 @ 08:13 PM
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a reply to: silo13

Which would be real cool...if there were no strings attached. But there are expectations, conditions, policies. You get a one size fits all get out of hell free card, but it isnt really free. It costs your soul. One way or the other, you are selling your soul, signing a contract every time you eat the cracker and sip the wine. You are trading your fate and your soul for security because someone told you that simply being a good person for good reasons isnt enough. And hell was made for people who dont buy into that BS. The stick and the carrot, custom made to keep chattel in their quiet rows. Its exploitation, pure and simple. Blackmailing you for being exactly what god intended you to be. He never wanted any of us to be good people because that means he stops being useful. He needs us to be broken because that means we need him. Like electing a loan shark as national treasurer. Supply in one hand, demand in the other. Its a god damned racket and no amount of sugar coating changes that. Hell is god's version of holding your family for ransom. He killed his own son to prove a point. Not sure that point reassures me any, especially when that death is conditional uppn our surrender of control and awareness. We are not asked to be perceptive or to take charge or to master our potential, we are demanded to submit. Demanded to submit, folks. What kind of leader does that?
edit on 9-2-2018 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2018 @ 08:20 PM
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a reply to: Soulece

No worries then.

But for the record, some examples would be Naraka and Diyu. They're non-Christian "Hells" where the individual who did "bad" things during their lifetime may end up spending billions to trillions of years (or more) being tortured. Technically, I think neither is taught as being truly "eternal" though since both or their torture periods are meant to eventually cleanse the soul until the being is ready for its next reincarnation. But to a human mind, a trillion years of torture might as well be eternity when compared to our meager lifespans on Earth.



posted on Feb, 9 2018 @ 08:20 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm
Lol.

Well put. I couldn't write any better. It's reflect exactly what I have in mind.






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