North Korea says U.S. considering limited pre-emptive strike

originally posted by: JustaBill

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: JustaBill

Isnt the most humane thing to sue for peace !
or not enter into a war in the first place

Sure, if that was a logical option once the United States was attacked. We were not in war at the time so the United States entering the war was actually forced apon us, it wasn't a choice.

As far as suing for peace, that's been debated quite often. Some sources state talks began before the bombs were dropped. Other sources state anyone who made mention of surrender or peace would have been killed by fanatical military officers. Personally, I am truly torn on both issues and their validity. The Japanese viewed the Emperor as a god and a direct descendant of the sun goddess, Amaterasu. Taking that into consideration and their fanatical mindset at that particular time, I find it hard to believe Japan would have talked peace or surrender. Their mindset was to protect their "God" at all cost. That doesn't mean they didn't or wouldn't have.

Almost every source, whether they are for or against the use of the bomb, acknowledges Japanese leadership was absolutely opposed to surrender, with a few exceptions. You'll see a few sources saying they were willing to entertain conditional surrender, but only under absolutely absurd conditions that the allies would never accept - such as keeping their armed forces, keeping some of the territory they had gained, etc. It's easy to Monday morning quarterback it but there really was no choice. There was no realistic path to peace through negotiation that wouldn't have led to them rebuilding and launching another war in 5 or 10 years.

a reply to: BlueAjah

I think that would be great but every country where the President is taken out someone inevitably that country usually falls apart because the newer dictator is usually worse. China does not want the responsibility of taken on millions of refuges. China is keenly aware that a nuclear with with Korea would be terrible for them from a humanitarian standpoint let alone fiscal. War will not happen as some may hope but saber rattling will continue from both sides just as it continues between Russia and the United States.

We cannot afford to occupy another country if the North Korean dictator is killed and secondly China would not want us bordering the town. This has to be a slow and methodical change within the North Korean administration and I'm quite confident that has been going on for some time. I'm sure China would work with South Korea when it's all said and done to redraw the county lines in exchange for south Korea getting total control under the guise of reunification of Korea...and I'm ok with that.

originally posted by: SickWave

originally posted by: vinifalou

originally posted by: odzeandennz
the US doesn't want anyone else to develop nukes whilst the POTUS just removed a previous EO restricting nukes development. iirc, the us plans to up its arsenal, the only power to recklessly use nukes before exhausting all options, is going to up its nuke armament..

under what pretenses is the US going to preemptively attack another country when they have never ever done anything to the US?
the rules if war must have changed...

That's what you do when you feel like you're the police of the world.

How does one consider oneself to be morally superior when...

2. Now the US starves North Koreans because they support terror.

A socialist dictator starves his own citizens by throwing every dime the country has into pursuing nuclear weapons and supporting his own lavish lifestyle.

But yeah, the US is responsible for every death worldwide somehow, right?

originally posted by: chrismarco
a reply to: BlueAjah

I think that would be great but every country where the President is taken out someone inevitably that country usually falls apart because the newer dictator is usually worse. China does not want the responsibility of taken on millions of refuges. China is keenly aware that a nuclear with with Korea would be terrible for them from a humanitarian standpoint let alone fiscal. War will not happen as some may hope but saber rattling will continue from both sides just as it continues between Russia and the United States.

We cannot afford to occupy another country if the North Korean dictator is killed and secondly China would not want us bordering the town. This has to be a slow and methodical change within the North Korean administration and I'm quite confident that has been going on for some time. I'm sure China would work with South Korea when it's all said and done to redraw the county lines in exchange for south Korea getting total control under the guise of reunification of Korea...and I'm ok with that.

There aren't 2 options, do nothing and a full scale war and invasion. There are a lot of options in between. If we do hit them it's likely to be a limited strike.

a reply to: JustaBill

Just to ask bill

did the Japanese at that point know the US had the atomic bomb ?
did they know they were going to drop it on them ?

As I think if the US just stated , we have the most destructive power known to man , and we will drop this atom bomb on your imperial palace killing everyone within a 50 mile radius and reducing the imperial city to ashes along with your God and his entire imperial court.

That would possibly force them to surrender

Did they even try that ?

The threat of wiping out the entire Japanese royal family and their history in one go!
maybe that would have forced the Japanese to surrender

a reply to: VictorVonDoom

Pence: "Aggressive" new N. Korea sanctions coming "soon"

Yup, they're pushing that speech again.

Even with no more tests and launches from NK... So far.

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: JustaBill

Just to ask bill

did the Japanese at that point know the US had the atomic bomb ?
did they know they were going to drop it on them ?

As I think if the US just stated , we have the most destructive power known to man , and we will drop this atom bomb on your imperial palace killing everyone within a 50 mile radius and reducing the imperial city to ashes along with your God and his entire imperial court.

That would possibly force them to surrender

Did they even try that ?

The threat of wiping out the entire Japanese royal family and their history in one go!
maybe that would have forced the Japanese to surrender

First, I apologize for not replying sooner. I actually forgot to check back in on this thread. I will do my best to answer you as honestly as possible with my understanding of events. I will also add this site here that helps explain what warnings may or may not have been given in advance. I have read the information provided on that site many times trying to correlate a timeline of events and I think it really does a good job of showing both the pros and cons of what may truly have taken place. It even does a good job of debunking somethings taken as truths concerning prior notification of the bombings.

did the Japanese at that point know the US had the atomic bomb ?

To my knowledge no one knew about the atomic bomb, but as information revealed later, Stalin did have spies who knew about the bomb. I have seen nothing stating Japan knew anything.

did they know they were going to drop it on them?

Here is where I highly recommend going to the site listed above for some truths and even some debunking on that topic because it is here where things get a bit tricky. There are documents stating leaflets were dropped ahead of time. IMO, I think vague warnings were given, so vague that it wasn't clear it was an atomic bomb or it's true capabilities. But I also wonder who would have believed it's true destructive power since nothing before it had been seen. Almost incomprehensible and honestly, to me, still is. So would any warning really have been sufficient to make the Japanese believe what was about to happen? Truly hard to say.


As far as dropping bombs on the Imperial Place. Most forget, because it was overshadowed by the atomic bombs, that the US had a massive bombing campaign dropping incendiary bombs. For example, "Operation Meetinghouse" was a campaign that took place on the nights of March 9-10, 1945. In this 2 night operation it is estimated between 80,000-100,000 people were killed. That is not a misprint...80,000-100,000 killed. Those numbers, for that 2 night campaign using incendiary bombs, are similar in destruction to the Nagasaki death toll and slightly less for the Hiroshima death toll. Yet, even then Japan had no desire to surrender or even considered it. It is believed that killing the Emperor would have made things considerably worse because it would have been viewed by the Japanese that the United States had killed a "God," their "God."

You have truly made valid arguments of which I can't honestly say for certain one way or the other would have or have not made a difference. The Japanese seemed more than willing to continue fighting after losing 80,000-100,000 people from just a 2 night incendiary bombing campaign and clearly had no chance of winning the war at that point, yet they continued on. If that 2 night campaign with no chance of winning didn't make them surrender I truly begin to wonder what, other than the atomic bombs, would have. I, for one, can't say. Thank you for your point of view and truly enjoyed discussing it with you.

a reply to: JustaBill

Hey thank you for the links I will go ahead and check it out
the Japanese are famed for their honour and loyalty until their last breath
so i cant imagine they would have surrendered so easily as you stated , even if the emperor and the imperial city were wiped from the map they'd use that as a martyrdom to continue fighting until japane either won or was completely eradicated from history .

Thanks again

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: JustaBill

Hey thank you for the links I will go ahead and check it out
the Japanese are famed for their honour and loyalty until their last breath
so i cant imagine they would have surrendered so easily as you stated , even if the emperor and the imperial city were wiped from the map they'd use that as a martyrdom to continue fighting until japane either won or was completely eradicated from history .

Thanks again

You're very welcome and I agree. I also think our leaders believed the same thing concerning the emperor and took that into consideration concerning whether to wipe him out completely or not.

That site gives good information pertaining to the LeMay leaflets and provides information bringing into question the validity of their use and timing of their use. Enjoy!

I'd laugh if it wasn't the crying matter.

Russia, US or North Korea do not have the "nuke bombs" at all!

"Nuclear" is the code for the pyramids' underground power waves!!!!

Thus, the only countries which have the "nuclear" weapons are the ons which have the functioning pyramids - precisely the ones ruined by the American presidents and NATO (serving private army of the black/orange no(a)bility pyramid looters)

Afganistan
Syria
Iraq
Iran
the Balkan countries + Ukraine + Crimea


Do you see now why Trump and Israel aim at - Iran??!

It is the oly country left to conquer in order to connect the pyramid grid . If that happens - humanity's gone, for those who have this aim in mind, want to actually destabilize the pyramid grid to use it as giant worldwide HAARP system!!!

a reply to: morano

lulz i gotta smoke more when i read.