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It Gets Worse: Carter Page Was An Undercover Asset For The FBI

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posted on Feb, 5 2018 @ 09:57 PM
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a reply to: tadaman

Yes it is ... all the way!

It is not the first time the FBI have done this. It has a rather sick history of lawlessness.

P




posted on Feb, 5 2018 @ 09:57 PM
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I have said this before and I will repeat it here.

IMHO.

Mueller was sent in to battle to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 election.

He and the team have been doing this ... wherever the road takes him.

That includes everyone and I hope he is doing his job with diligence.

He has had all of this time to investigate without much worry.

If you all think he is there to bust President Trump then you are not very good at 3D Chess.

This is pure gold. President Trump is cleaning the swamp and he does not care if the swamp is full of Ds or Gs or anyone else. They are going down.

This is why President Trump does not want it stopped. The investigation is going right to plan.

P



posted on Feb, 5 2018 @ 10:02 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

No, UCE-1 and CS-1 are different people. CS-1 posed a casino developer. Both are referenced in the DOJ press release:

Evgeny Buryakov Pleads Guilty In Manhattan Federal Court In Connection With Conspiracy To Work For Russian Intelligence


The FBI obtained the recordings after Sporyshev attempted to recruit an FBI undercover employee (“UCE-1”), who was posing as an analyst from a New York-based energy company. In response to requests from Sporyshev, UCE-1 provided Sporyshev with binders containing purported industry analysis written by UCE-1 and supporting documentation relating to UCE-1’s reports, as well as covertly placed recording devices. Sporyshev then took the binders to, among other places, the Residentura.



In the summer of 2014, BURYAKOV met multiple times with a confidential source working for the FBI (“CS-1”) and an FBI undercover employee (“UCE-2”). Both CS-1 and UCE-2 purported to be working on a casino development project in Russia.


In the court document in which Page is identified as Male-1, there's also a CS-1 but there's no UCE-1 that I see. The description of CS-1 (at the end of the document) does not match Carter Page.

The brief description of UCE-1 matches with Carter Page pretty well based on the DOJ release and *some* details of his testimony and public statements.

My interest is piqued.

However, if Carter Page is UCE-1, he lied in his HPSCI testimony. If he lied in his testimony, why is Nunes trying to portray him as a victim of improper surveillance? If he's UCE-1, that would seemingly play more to his narrative (see this thread) but not necessarily.

See, this thread is already tainted with TCT spin that Carter Page was a plant in the Trump campaign. It's possible that when the FBI approached Carter Page in I think it was June of 2013, they told him the Russians and then got him to plant a bug in what he gave them paying him for it.

And why would he be identified as "Male-1" in the court doc and not "UCE-1." The naming in the DOJ press release matches what's in the court doc ("CS-1" is the same in both) and I think we can assume that they refer to individuals the same way in all of the court docs so it in that regard, it seems unlikely that Carter Page could be "Male-1" and "UCE-1."

Consider that this Russian spy was going to energy-related conventions in NY in 2012-2013 and meeting lots of people, looking for folks to recruit and he's asking for and receiving information (CS-1 also provided documents).

It wouldn't be *that* big of a coincidence if there was another man from another NY-based energy firm who also provided some sort of documents. It's a pretty brief description.

There's also a Female-1, Female-2, and UCE-2. Reading this bit, I wonder if CS-1 was the informant who probably went to the FBI and UCE-2 then posed as his associate. From the DOJ press release:


In the summer of 2014, BURYAKOV met multiple times with a confidential source working for the FBI (“CS-1”) and an FBI undercover employee (“UCE-2”). Both CS-1 and UCE-2 purported to be working on a casino development project in Russia.

During a conversation recorded on July 22, 2014, Sporyshev warned BURYAKOV that meeting with UCE-2 might be a “trap” but authorized BURYAKOV to go ahead so he could make a better assessment.


I think the greatest probability here is that Page isn't UCE-1 based on the totality of what I'm seeing but I can't say as of this moment that I can rule it out. It just doesn't seem likely that he'd *ever* be identified as Male-1 (which he confirmed he was known as in the doc) in any court documents for the case if he was UCE-1.

I wonder if we can track down more court docs that might give UCE-1 more context.



posted on Feb, 5 2018 @ 10:07 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

The only male-1 I was identified in what looked like a transcript of a recording.



posted on Feb, 5 2018 @ 10:10 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

I dont think he is UCE 1, but I dont think its a big deal either way, because it is admitted the fbi thought page did no wrong doing, and in fact helped them, either a lot of a little depending on if he is UCE 1 or not.

I am not claiming Page was an FBI plant in the trump campaign.

My point is the narrative that is being pushed everywhere that the fact that the FBI had there eye on Page in 2013 shows he is a shady guy, when in fact the full story is the FBI accused him of no wrong doing, and in fact thought he was duped.

Somehow, three months after that, they went from thinking he was a guy that did nothing wrong and helped the FBI because he was duped, to an acussed russian agent.

This shows that not only is the narrative I mentioned absurd, but that the FBI totally changed their opinion of this guy in two months.

It doesnt make sense.



posted on Feb, 5 2018 @ 10:13 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Good breakdown. IMO, if page isn't UCE-1, then the FBI simply used him because they knew of his "russian contacts", he was a convenient fall guy for the illegal surveillance. In other words, they used more evidence they knew was fake because they knew it'd be easy to pull off the "connections".
edit on 5-2-2018 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2018 @ 10:26 PM
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a reply to: bally001

I think Grambler needs to write a diagram for me. I'm so confused and feeling so stupid. I just hope the bad guys get punished but they rarely do-mostly due to, as usual, political power.



posted on Feb, 5 2018 @ 10:30 PM
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originally posted by: Justso
a reply to: bally001

I think Grambler needs to write a diagram for me. I'm so confused and feeling so stupid. I just hope the bad guys get punished but they rarely do-mostly due to, as usual, political power.


Ill try to make a thread tomorrow that outlines what is going on.

Let me say though that Its not just me putting things together, many people are contributing.

And even though theantedilluvian and I almost completely disagree on the implications of these facts, he has corrected me several times and I thank him for that.



posted on Feb, 5 2018 @ 10:30 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Page was a cooperating witness in the 2015 trial from what I can tell (from what he's said and based on the court doc we've seen where he is called Male-1). I don't know that's the same thing as the FBI having an opinion of him as a good guy.

I think there's a lot of (probably mostly unintentional) conflation going on right now. Consider this piece on TownHall that is pretty much expressing the same sentiment as you.

DOJ Documents Show Carter Page Helped FBI Catch Russian Spies


So, if Carter Page was acting as a foreign intelligence agent for Russia as far back as 2013, as has been repeatedly implied by mainstream reports, why did FBI agents at the time not see him as such? Based on the information provided above, it seems perfectly plausible that Page thought he was developing a relationship with someone who was a legitimate business contact. If Page had illegally or unethically shared sensitive information with Podobnyy, why would Monaghan have omitted this given that such an action by Page would have strengthened the FBI’s case against Sporyshev and Podobnyy?


Except I don't know that anyone is actually implying that Carter Page was a Russian spy in 2013. The above links to two stories that don't make that assertion. In fact, the NYT piece is entitled "Russian Spies Tried to Recruit Carter Page Before He Advised Trump."

Notice the "tried" there. I haven't read *anything* suggesting that Carter Page became a Russian spy in 2013 and I think some nuance is being lost here. I think what the 2013 events show is that Page is the kind of person, moving in the kind of circles, seeking the kind of relationships, that makes him a likely prospect for the SVR to try to recruit.

Clearly some Russian spies did encounter him and did attempt to recruit him so they must have had that opinion of him as well.

As for the OP, this CNN article references documents that could probably put that too bed. I haven't located them on the web though.

Court documents: FBI bugged binders to eavesdrop on Russian spy ring


he FBI used techniques reminiscent of Cold-War spy tactics to eavesdrop on Russian intelligence agents in New York City: bugging binders full of "confidential" industry information, court documents revealed this week.


edit on 2018-2-5 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2018 @ 10:35 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Thanks. I'll be looking for your diagram-then theantedilluvian can x out where he sees fit. This should be fun.



posted on Feb, 5 2018 @ 10:36 PM
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a reply to: pheonix358

That has to go. Maybe we SHOULD hold a constitutional convention and deal with the FBI not actually being an FBI we need. Its a little too criminal, thanks.

I want a constitutional convention now.

End the Federal reserve while we are at it.

End the FBI. Restructure it into an actual LEO and investigative branch of government with oversight.

End EO without checks and balances including extended Presidential emergency war powers.

End income tax.

End fractal reserve banking in the US and return to a new standard. End FIAT currency.

Cancel all debt to the federal reserve and expell the members from the country with NO material wealth. They get a voucher payable in their own toilet paper money.

Restructure the dollar.

Move away from the petro dollar and into the thorium energy market for international debt settlement.

Eliminate ALL intelligence agencies.

Combine ALL intelligence agencies.

Here is my biggest addition, a new branch of government.

Establish a 4th branch of government outside of all other authority except unto its own body in thirds.

This would be the federal investigative Board.

It would be built on a system of checks and balances for ALL of government, itself included.

This 4th branch must be divided into thirds like our government is now so as to assure it can regulate itself.

Imagine an OVERT shadow government modeled after our own with internal checks and balances, but providing OVERSIGHT over governmental functions from intelligence and defense to agriculture and space exploration.

Itself being designed specifically to enforce counter- corruption laws.

The 4th branch would be the police for the political class.

Call it the Federal Investigative board. Have it ACTUALLY do the FBIs job.

The FBI is busy playing politics and gangsters right now to be of any actual service.

If nothing else just reform and restructure the FBI and DOJ.

edit on 2 5 2018 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2018 @ 10:36 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

To be clear, you are agreeing that Page was NOT the FBI undercover employee? That he is not UCE 1?

That he was not an employee of the FBI and was merely considered a useful idiot that the Russian spies were cultivating?

Because that’s what the entire “evil FBI” premise of this OP is based on...

ETA: I see that Ante is not 100% sure but he’s made a good argument that UCE-1 and Male-1 are two different people. I think that is likely the best we can do right now as well, having followed his logic. It would be highly premature to set fire to the FBI (metaphorically speaking) on such a highly doubtful premise?

edit on 5-2-2018 by AboveBoard because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2018 @ 10:42 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

Townhalls opinion doesnt really change anything for me.

The NYT article shows that Page helped in the trial, and he was not accused of wrongdoing.

Again, having russian try to get Page to turn proves no guilt of Page whatspoever.

In fact, it seems to actually suggest that Page was approached and declined, which seems to speak well of him as opposed to ill.

So citing the 2013 warrant against Page as proof of his shady character and a possible reason to isue a new fisa warrant.

Keep in mind, under title 1, the fbi had to prove that page was likely a foreign agent, not just that russians were attempting to turn him.



posted on Feb, 5 2018 @ 10:43 PM
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originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: Grambler

To be clear, you are agreeing that Page was NOT the FBI undercover employee? That he is not UCE 1?

That he was not an employee of the FBI and was merely considered a useful idiot that the Russian spies were cultivating?

Because that’s what the entire “evil FBI” premise of this OP is based on...


He was not UCE 1, he was male 1.

As the NYT showed, he helped convict a russian criminal, and was not accused of wrong doing by the fbi.

This changes nothing really about the OP.

He still helped the fbi, was not accused of wrong doing, and then months later was accused of beiing a russian agent by the same FBI people.
edit on 5-2-2018 by Grambler because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2018 @ 10:51 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Was he actually accused of being a Russian agent or merely as someone they had enough evidence on to be granted a warrant for “probable cause?” Do we actually have all the evidence the FBI used to obtain the warrant? We don’t do we? It’s classified??



posted on Feb, 5 2018 @ 10:55 PM
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originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: Grambler

Was he actually accused of being a Russian agent or merely as someone they had enough evidence on to be granted a warrant for “probable cause?” Do we actually have all the evidence the FBI used to obtain the warrant? We don’t do we? It’s classified??



Thats true, we dont have the evidence.

But we are pretty sure the warrant was filed under title 1 of the fisa application.

That means they had to accuse him of being a foreign agent or spy.


he FISA ‘warrant’ request, against Carter Page, was made October 21st, 2016, under Title I of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. Meaning the surveillance application was specifically stating, to the court, the U.S. individual was likely an actual agent of a foreign government, ie. “a spy.”

The DOJ (National Security Division) and the FBI (Counterintelligence Division) were not asking to review ancillary data collected on U.S. Person Carter Page as an outcome of surveillance on a foreign person, or foreign agent; that would be Title 7 (FISA-702).

In action outlined within the HPSCI memo, the DOJ and FBI were specifically telling the FISA court they had evidence that U.S. Person Carter Page was working as an agent of a foreign government. He was their target, and therefore requesting direct FISA Title 1 surveillance of that target on October 21st, 2016.


theconservativetreehouse.com...



posted on Feb, 5 2018 @ 11:02 PM
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a reply to: AboveBoard

They HIRED him to collude with known Russian intelligence operatives trying to buy illegal US energy secrets.

Latr but still while he was a paid FBI undercover employee, he was placed on Trumps team and used to obtain the FISA warrant.

This was "The Insurance" the DNC and clunton had as mentioned in the leaks prior.

Add to the fact that FGPS made the dossier and set up the Trump jr meeting, and its known the FBI was in direct contact with Clinduns team, you know, getting material for the warrant, Material paid for by the DNC and Clinding.....To royally entrap an opposing candidate with weaponized federal institutions.

Instead they used it on a standing president in an effort to defraud the judicial branch and remove him with rogue elements within our own government,.

Thats treason.


edit on 2 5 2018 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2018 @ 11:04 PM
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originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: AboveBoard

They HIRED him to collude with known Russian intelligence operatives trying to buy illegal US energy secrets.

While he was still a paid FBI undercover employee, he was placed on Trumps team and used to obtain the FISA warrant.

This was "The Insurance" the DNC and clunton had as mentioned in the leaks prior.

Add to the fact that FGPS made the dossier and set up the Trump jr meeting, and its known the FBI was in direct contact with Clinduns team, you know, getting material for the warrant, Material paid for by the DNC and Clinding.....To royally entrap an opposing candidate with weaponized federal institutions.

Instead they used it on a standing president in an effort to defraud the judicial branch and remove him with rogue elements within our own government,.

Thats treason.



I dont believe he was hired by the FBI. That was UCE 1, who is a different guy.

It looks like instead he merely testified against the russian criminal, and was accused of no wrong doing by the fbi.

But I dont think he was an fbi employee.



posted on Feb, 5 2018 @ 11:05 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

paid undercover operative.

Thats my guess.

It will come out soon enough.


edit on 2 5 2018 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2018 @ 11:13 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Maybe they discovered evidence of that?

Just a thought... We can’t debate it without facts. The facts are classified.



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