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Break down the memo for me. I must be stupid

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posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 12:59 PM
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a reply to: Vector99

Opposition research is what campaigns do (both sides) they will look everywhere they possibly can for usable dirt on the opposition. Maybe ethically questionable, but a reality in virtually all political campaigns.

When government agencies get involved in that process on either side it's a completely different ballgame.

Apparently people are unable to see the difference.




posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 01:00 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
It’s just a memorandum, which is sort of like a note or reminder for future reference. It makes many claims, but without the FISA warrants, applications, or whatever they are, we haven’t seen all the evidence. If I were you I would withhold judgement.


This is true.

I have no problem with people saying we dont have access to the intel, so we dont know if the memo is true.

What is troubling is the people saying that the claims the memo makes are not troubling at all, which we see maany people doing.

This means that even if the intel is released and proves everything the memo said, there will still be many people taht feel that it was perfectly ok for the FBI to do all of these things.



Yes the claims to the opposite—it’s a nothingburger, it damages national security, it’s to distract from the investigation, etc.—are equally as unsubstantiated. The fact the FBI resisted subpoenas in such a voracious way is enough for me to want to see more transparency on the issue, but the rhetoric on each side is not helping. Trump needs to declassify the evidence.



posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 01:02 PM
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originally posted by: SeaWorthy

originally posted by: BlueAjah
Wow.

So many in this thread have forgotten what the US is. This is not a country where the government should be permitted to wire tap people without proven evidence.

The Constitution and the Fourth Amendment is supposed to protect us from that. Our forefathers knew what it was like to live under a King that abused his power to use his powerful means to crush his enemies. They came to America to get away from that. The Constitution is defined to prohibit that kind of abuse of power.

Yet, so many here have no problem with making excuses for this kind of abuse of power.



Hard for us citizens to know what can be done anymore with all of the changes.

Bush Patriot Act

www.aclu.org...


The government no longer has to show evidence that the subjects of search orders are an "agent of a foreign power," a requirement that previously protected Americans against abuse of this authority. The FBI does not even have to show a reasonable suspicion that the records are related to criminal activity, much less the requirement for "probable cause" that is listed in the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution. All the government needs to do is make the broad assertion that the request is related to an ongoing terrorism or foreign intelligence investigation.




Obama Signs New Law – Incarcerate US citizens without warrant, due process, trial

www.beliefnet.com... zqYDvDA85FSc1.99





The government no longer has to show evidence that the subjects of search orders are an "agent of a foreign power," a requirement that previously protected Americans against abuse of this authority. The FBI does not even have to show a reasonable suspicion that the records are related to criminal activity, much less the requirement for "probable cause" that is listed in the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution. All the government needs to do is make the broad assertion that the request is related to an ongoing terrorism or foreign intelligence investigation. 





Obama Signs New Law – Incarcerate US citizens without warrant, due process, trial 

www.beliefnet.com... zqYDvDA85FSc1.99 



Lengthy quote to bump this post.


edit on 3-2-2018 by Wide-Eyes because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 01:04 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell
People here are saying, very ignorantly, the FBI was biased. Indeed they were, biased for Trump.

The letter by Comey that Hillary was still under investigation won Trump the election.

The Comey Letter Probably Cost Clinton The Election



Hillary Clinton would probably be president if FBI Director James Comey had not sent a letter to Congress on Oct. 28. The letter, which said the FBI had “learned of the existence of emails that appear to be pertinent to the investigation” into the private email server that Clinton used as secretary of state, upended the news cycle and soon halved Clinton’s lead in the polls, imperiling her position in the Electoral College.

fivethirtyeight.com...



Yeah, okay. Still ignorant.

Just run a google image search for hillary crowds vs trump crowds.

The nation was begging for Trump to win.
edit on 3-2-2018 by Tempter because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 01:07 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell
The basic idea of the Trump sycophants is that the FBI gave a judge Hillary induced information to spy on that geek, Carter Page is ridiculous.

They weren’t investigating Trump just some guy working for his election who they were checking out long before the election


Also, the FBI gets information to get warrants from drug dealers and criminals all the time. The information doesn't have to come from saints.

Its a distraction that doesn't even make sense since the FBI was going after Carer Page not Trump.

Trump, the great hypocrite, is complaining yet he wanted to fire Sessions because he recused himself on the Trump investigation yet Trump is bringing this up!

Cant you people see through this hypocrite

Your not looking




A FISA warrant is on a whole different level than the warrants you are comparing for drug dealers and criminals. A FISA court requires solid, compelling evidence with much higher standards to allow the federal government to spy on US citizens.

It is more than a coincidence that the FISA warrants on Page, based on evidence paid for by the DNC and Clinton campaign, occurred during an election, when Page was in contact with other members of the Trump campaign. I am sure we will hear more about the suspicious unmasking requests that were very frequent during this time period.



posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 01:13 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: aethertek

Well here is an ex FBi person saying that if what the memo says is true, that it is an outrage for the FBI.



If the "memo" is true.

What like bengazi & pizzagate were true?

You people keep pushing the talking point that the FISA warrant was obtained merely on the "dossier" which is BS.
That's all this memo is, a false talking point narrative to keep cult45 riled up to distract from the facts of Russian collusion & conspiracy.

You really want the truth, have your hero trumpy declassify the TS segment of the FISA warrants.
I double dog dare ya!

K~



posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 01:13 PM
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originally posted by: BlueAjah

originally posted by: Willtell
The basic idea of the Trump sycophants is that the FBI gave a judge Hillary induced information to spy on that geek, Carter Page is ridiculous.

They weren’t investigating Trump just some guy working for his election who they were checking out long before the election


Also, the FBI gets information to get warrants from drug dealers and criminals all the time. The information doesn't have to come from saints.

Its a distraction that doesn't even make sense since the FBI was going after Carer Page not Trump.

Trump, the great hypocrite, is complaining yet he wanted to fire Sessions because he recused himself on the Trump investigation yet Trump is bringing this up!

Cant you people see through this hypocrite

Your not looking




A FISA warrant is on a whole different level than the warrants you are comparing for drug dealers and criminals. A FISA court requires solid, compelling evidence with much higher standards to allow the federal government to spy on US citizens.

It is more than a coincidence that the FISA warrants on Page, based on evidence paid for by the DNC and Clinton campaign, occurred during an election, when Page was in contact with other members of the Trump campaign. I am sure we will hear more about the suspicious unmasking requests that were very frequent during this time period.



Here's the best explanation of it I've seen. And I doubt underwerks will read it because it is a partisan site, which today is enough reason to deny facts.

theconservativetreehouse.com...



posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 01:25 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
It’s just a memorandum, which is sort of like a note or reminder for future reference. It makes many claims, but without the FISA warrants, applications, or whatever they are, we haven’t seen all the evidence. If I were you I would withhold judgement.


This is true.

I have no problem with people saying we dont have access to the intel, so we dont know if the memo is true.

What is troubling is the people saying that the claims the memo makes are not troubling at all, which we see maany people doing.

This means that even if the intel is released and proves everything the memo said, there will still be many people taht feel that it was perfectly ok for the FBI to do all of these things.



Yes the claims to the opposite—it’s a nothingburger, it damages national security, it’s to distract from the investigation, etc.—are equally as unsubstantiated. The fact the FBI resisted subpoenas in such a voracious way is enough for me to want to see more transparency on the issue, but the rhetoric on each side is not helping. Trump needs to declassify the evidence.


Well here is what I know.

Democrats and the intel committee have freaked out for over a week that releasing this memo would be devestating national security, and that was a huge lie.

This is the same excuse given for why the intel behind the memo cant be released; and so I am assuming that releasing that intel would also not damage national security, and therefore should come out.

I want to see McCabe testimony to see if he said there wouldnt have been a fisa warrant without the dossier.

I want to see all of the fisa applications for Page; the original one that failed, the one the passed ion October, and every renewal of it.

I want to see what all the fbi used the dossier for, and all other info.

Until I see these, nothig is proven to me. However, I will be interested to see which people are advocating for the release of this info, and which are against it.



posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 01:25 PM
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a reply to: amazing

The memo is an obvious propaganda piece authored by Devin Nunes claiming the FBI only used the Fusion gps dossier to get the warrant on carter page..

Here are the relevant issues..

1) Devin Nunes is an established trump shill who has already been removed from 2 congressional committees for getting caught being a trump shill.


2) trump could release the actual fisa document which it’s what evidence was used.. he refuses to do so and instead wants a memo from his shill released..


3) Devin Nunes doesn’t have the clearance nor has he seen the fisa warrant NOR anything else about the case that is classified.

I have never seen people scream to be lied to so loudly..



posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 01:26 PM
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threadreaderapp.com...



FISA courts have LIMITED jurisdiction because the scope of the invasive tools of the NSA is far more INVASIVE than regular wiretaps, due to the SECRET nature of such courts, and from the risk of forum shopping with the limited number and deferential nature of FISA Judges.

That is why Congress imposed SPECIAL RESTRICTIONS on access to FISA courts and use of FISA evidence. To access FISA courts, only the highest ranking FBI officials must vet and approve, a high ranking DOJ official must authorize, and they must re-vet and re-approve every 90 days.

To spy on Americans through a FISA court, the FBI must show the target is an "agent of a foreign power," not merely in contact with a foreign power. The law makes it difficult to show someone is an "agent of a foreign power" to make sure it is not misused to spy on Americans.

The law does not allow the FBI to call an American an "agent of a foreign power" unless they can show the person "knowingly engages in clandestine intelligence gathering activities for or on behalf of a foreign power" AND the nature of their activity is criminalized.

Claiming someone is an "agent of a foreign power" is a difficult standard to ever show, and should never happen to a domestic political opponent in a domestic political campaign. That is why the FBI had to cook the books -- put a bogus informant on their team & lie to the courts.

Trump's winning caused a problem for Comey & Comey's firing caused a problem for Rosenstein. Both Comey & Rosenstein signed off on the bogus affidavits to the FISA court to continue spying on Trump team members post-election and post-inauguration. They needed Mueller to cover up.

Key fact about Mueller: he is very close friends with Comey, and was the mentor and close friend of Rosenstein. Mueller is also expert at covering up for lawless law enforcement: see his role with Whitey Bulger, BCCI, HSBC, Waco, Noriega, IRS/Tea Party & Fast & Furious.

FBI turned over their NSA spying capacity to a private lobbying company in order to promote a smear campaign against a domestic political opponent. Fearing being caught, they appointed a special counsel (Mueller) to cover for them by accusing the man (Trump) who might expose them.


Last addendum: FISA court was created in 1978 as a post-Watergate reform to PREVENT exactly what happened here.

edit on 3-2-2018 by Tempter because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 01:27 PM
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a reply to: fiverx313

Nice the memo was released and its nonsense I gues?!?!


BWAHAHAHA I gotta go watch the news!!



posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 01:27 PM
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a reply to: amazingTrump & the politicians are just Circus illusions...“Make the terrorism stop!” “Solve the immigrant problem!” Hillary was going to be arrested, Obama was going to be impeached or Trump was going to be impeached
as long as there are distracting real Problems going on,the elites are smiling, controlling the debt instrument that is known as the US dollar.



posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 01:28 PM
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originally posted by: aethertek

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: aethertek

Well here is an ex FBi person saying that if what the memo says is true, that it is an outrage for the FBI.



If the "memo" is true.

What like bengazi & pizzagate were true?

You people keep pushing the talking point that the FISA warrant was obtained merely on the "dossier" which is BS.
That's all this memo is, a false talking point narrative to keep cult45 riled up to distract from the facts of Russian collusion & conspiracy.

You really want the truth, have your hero trumpy declassify the TS segment of the FISA warrants.
I double dog dare ya!

K~


If he declassifies it, people will scream obstruction of justice, as they have been screaming that just by trump allowing this memo that was voted on by the intel committee was the destruction of the constitution, even though that was a blatant lie.

But I hope he does.

Surely McCabe will speak up any minute rto say he did not testify that there would have been no warrant without the dosssier.

If he did testify to that, its game over.

But lets get a special prosecutor to look into it, that was the solution for trumps team, so it should work just fine here.



posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 01:29 PM
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a reply to: Painterz

Oh no this was a blantant smoke screen by one side..

Trump could release the actual fisa warrant if he wanted to prove his claim..

I’m just judging by this thread, but seems the Nunes memo was nonsense??



posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 01:33 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

No it isn’t....

Bus lied us into Iraq and gave his private company the rebuild contract..

Nixon started the war on drugs to attack his political opponents..


I’m also assuming you mean “if the fbi ONLY used the dossier” because I don’t know what you think it being among the pleatora of evidence against trump..

Jesus they have a email from his sons to Russian agents?!?!

This was nonesense... anyone who isn’t a partisan hack knew it was nonesense..

And people just lapped the propaganda up like it was gravy..



posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 01:33 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: amazing

The DOSSIER is an obvious propaganda piece authored by CHIRSTOPHER STEELE WHO WAS PAID BY HILLARYS TEAM claiming TRUMP COLLUDED WITH RUSSIA TO STEAL THE ELECTION.

Here are the relevant issues..

1) STEELE is an established HILLARY shill who WAS PAID BY HER T GET DIRT ON TRUMP WHICH HE GOT FROM THE KREMLIN>


2) STEELE COULD ADMIT WHO IS SOURCES WERE, BUT HE WONT, AND HILLARYS TEAM AND THE DNC LIED ABOUT PAYING HIM FOR OVER A YEAR.


3) STEELE DIDNT EVEN GO TO RUSSIA, AND HIS DOSSIER HAS EASILY DISPROVEN CLAIMS

I have never seen people scream to be lied to so loudly..



posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 01:38 PM
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originally posted by: amazing
Can someone break down the memo controversy for me? I must be stupid. I don't get it.

Right now it appears to me to be two things.

1. Nothing. Kinda like all the Benghazi stuff. Needs to be talked about. Some serious issues but ultimately, no one gets arrested nothing changes, no one goes down, everyone gets re elected. Use ATS as your guide and search how many times Hillary was going to be arrested, Obama was going to be impeached or Trump was going to be impeached and ...yet that was all nothingness.
2. It's about Transparency in government and people don't want transparancy in our government. They want to our white house and congress to operate secretly, so that they can continue to drain the American taxpayer of money and credibility. Because most people don't mind white collar criminals leading our country and they all want the status quo and until real hardship hits us personally they don't care what happens and they'd'd rather live with Their heads in the sand.

3. Is there something about this memo that is groundbreaking or serious that I'm missing?


At a very basic level the FBI withheld key information when apply8ng for a warrant to spy on an American citizen. It just so happens that citizen was affiliated with the Trump campaign. It also just so happens that the information they withheld was not only politically motivated, but false by their own account, and paid for by the FBI and DNC and Hillary's campaign. Oh, and it was obtained from another a citizen of another country who obtained itngrom sources in.... wait for it.... RUSSIA! Basically, they've been doing what they were accusing Trump of doing. In essence, they colluded with Russia to actually influence the election. All those crazy Trump tweets? Basically true. But anyone who decided to put a little research in way back then has been waiting for this to happen for-ev-er



posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 01:39 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Grambler

No it isn’t....

Bus lied us into Iraq and gave his private company the rebuild contract..

Nixon started the war on drugs to attack his political opponents..


I’m also assuming you mean “if the fbi ONLY used the dossier” because I don’t know what you think it being among the pleatora of evidence against trump..

Jesus they have a email from his sons to Russian agents?!?!

This was nonesense... anyone who isn’t a partisan hack knew it was nonesense..

And people just lapped the propaganda up like it was gravy..



What does the email have to do with wiretapping trump team members?

And again, for the millionth time, if don jr meeting with a russsian to possibly get dirt on hillary warrants a special prosecutor, the hillarys team actually paying for and getting dirt from kremlin sources would warrant the same.

If the dossier was used to get a fisa warrant, is is the biggest political scandal of my lifetime. It is the sitting president using his intel community to spy on his opponents based on ifo his party paid for.



posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 01:40 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Painterz

Oh no this was a blantant smoke screen by one side..

Trump could release the actual fisa warrant if he wanted to prove his claim..

I’m just judging by this thread, but seems the Nunes memo was nonsense??


So just to be clear, how many posts did you make on the meo on this thread alone when you havent even read it.

Why bother at this point?

Just turn on CNN and they will tell you what to think.



posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 01:41 PM
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originally posted by: Painterz
Yeah, it's just a speculative memo written by one guy that contains nothing much of anything but one guy's opinion.

We need to see evidence. Not opinions.

But we won't see that evidence while it's all still under investigation.

Until then, all this drama is just smoke-screening by both sides.


Under investigation by who? The very people who should be investigated? I won't hold my breathe how that turns out..
edit on 3-2-2018 by libertytoall because: (no reason given)



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