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Break down the memo for me. I must be stupid

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(post by Outlier13 removed for a manners violation)

posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 10:33 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Wardaddy454

Show me where something has been disproven.. I can’t prove a negative..


You're making the claim. Show me what's been verified.



posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 10:48 PM
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a reply to: amazing

Here's my take on the memo:

1) It is the accumulation of information about the Steele dossier and the FISA warrant used to investigate Carter Page. There is some analysis/spin injected by Nunes. It doesn't state that there was any collusion with Page or anyone in the Trump campaign and Russia, but the FBI investigation was focused on that
2) It represents the White House picking a fight with the FBI and (maybe) the Department of Justice. They did not want this memo released. It's a black eye that could have been handled internally. People will resign, but hard feelings will remain.
3) This memo is not enough to stop Mueller's investigation or start an investigation of anyone outside of the FBI/DOJ. Again, those people will resign before any finger-pointing occurs.




posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 10:51 PM
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a reply to: MOMof3


To put it another way, there has never been any evidence released showing any criminal activity by the President. Anyone able to dispute that should do so. Otherwise, POTUS is presumptively innocent.

As far as the memo, it reveals what we've already known RE: actors like Strozok, Page, McCabe, Comey, etc. They demonstrated a clear bias against Trump, as indicated by the release of thousands of text messages. House investigators are working on obtaining more records, up to and including individuals within Obama's inner circle.

The problem is, the entire investigation against Trump is based on unproven allegations and rumor. His opponents are using the concept of an investigation to obstruct or otherwise impede his Presidency. It is very petty.



posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 10:53 PM
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a reply to: Wardaddy454

Wrong..

Trump is afraid to release the actual fisa warrant that would prove/disprove his accusations.. because he knows he is lying..

I have never seen people scream loader to be propagandized



posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 11:00 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Wardaddy454

Wrong..

Trump is afraid to release the actual fisa warrant that would prove/disprove his accusations.. because he knows he is lying..

I have never seen people scream loader to be propagandized


That's some fantastic conjecture.
edit on 3-2-2018 by Wardaddy454 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 4 2018 @ 12:29 AM
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a reply to: amazing

Not only do I believe this is serious but I believe it is worse than Watergate.


The NSA has the ability to collect and watch 100% of the internet's upstream into America. That means they can see and hear everything you do if it's transmitted by internet. This power can be used by intelligence agencies to spy on suspected foreign spies. The FISA warrant grants this power. Things to note ...

1. The FBI absolutely can not do a blanket search. They have to have a direct target and reason to search a specific person or persons. To my knowledge they can't just grab a person's complete phone records for a whole year and sift thru each call from each day to try and find Russian collusion. No, they have to have an exact day or time or point that is suspected of Russian contact and show evidence for it. Not saying this is exactly what happened but just giving you an idea of how I suspect these FISA warrants work.

2. This power absolutely can not be used on Americans without damning evidence per the 4th amendment. The government is not allowed to spy on an American associating with a suspected Russian spy just because they are affiliated with him without damning evidence for that affiliate. This is to stop abuse of power and to stop the government from spying on anyone without hard evidence.

I won't talk about specific times or dates, just read the FISA warrant (99 pages) and the memo (4 pages) and it will be clear.

Carter Page was being spied on because of suspected Russian ties (totally legal btw). This happened before Trump was in the picture. The FISA warrant that granted the government permission to spy on page was renewed a few times before Trump came into the picture. Notes...

1. It has yet to be proven Carter Page is a Russian spy and/or colluded with Russians. As of then and now he is only suspected.

2. If Carter Page was colluding with the Russians how was he able to implant himself in Trump's campaign team if he was being spied on and being watch by the FBI? Either they let it happen and/or instigated it. Maybe ...

Fast forward and Page gets hired by Trump's team. Nothing suspicious about this because Page was being spied on years before Trump was in the picture and still no evidence showed up he was colluding with the Russians. So hiring page is ok at this point. Note ...

1. Trump didn't hire Page. His team did. Page testified that he never met Trump.

Hilliary Clinton and the Dems wanted to get a scandal on Trump but apparently couldn't find anything. They approached the court with the investigation into Carter Page as evidence they should be allowed to spy on Trump. The FISA warrant was denied because there was no evidence warranting surveillance. Desperate and needing a way to sway the public from Trump, Hilliary Clinton and the Dems paid for Steele and the Russians to create a fake dossier implicating Trump as colluding with the Russians.

Steele then purposely leaked the dossier that he himself created to BuzzFeed. The FBI then took the dossier, the investigation into Carter Page, and a Yahoo article to the judge to get a renewed FISA warrant to collect upstream data (to spy on Trump). They omitted the fact that Hillary paid for this, allegedly. Note ...

1. Just the investigation into Carter Page alone wasn't enough to grant a FISA renewal. Remember, just because he worked for Trump doesn't mean you can spy on Trump. Without the dossier the warrant would not have been approved.

2. The warrant was renewed three times based on the dossier.

So, to sum up Hilliary Clinton and the Obama administration hired someone to create a fake document saying Trump was colluding with the Russians so they could get a FISA warrant renewed to spy on him during his campaign, when he was president elect, and while he was President. All in an attempt to get the upper hand during the election or have Trump removed when he was President. Actual evidence proving Russian collusion from Trump or Page has yet to surface. Meeting someone here or there doesn't prove collusion. Having a phone call with someone hear or there doesn't prove collusion. Even going to Russia doesn't prove collusion. It raises suspicion which is not enough to spy on an American.

But that's not what makes it worse than Watergate. If you read the FISA warrant the Obama administration didn't only grab upstream data about Trump, his campaign, and Page. They grabbed the COMPLETE upstream data into America and let other agencies sift thru it. This is highly illegal and could be argued treasonous. They took the internet data from every american and let other agencies sift thru it, unrestricted.

Read the FISA memo if you want to know the full story!!!! The memo just summaries the black out portions of the FISA warrant. You will never know what really happened until you read the actual FISA in conjunction with the recently released memo.

Nixon grabbed intel and spied on his political enemies and those who opposed him. Obama's administration grabbed the COMPLETE internet upstream into America, used it to spy on Trump and let other agencies sift thru it. This is why it's worse than Watergate.



posted on Feb, 4 2018 @ 02:22 AM
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a reply to: Wardaddy454

No you made the claim it has been discredited..

I said it has not been discredited..

You made the assumption that it has been discredited.. so please name something the Dossier got wrong..


Hypothetically, it got everything right..

All trump would have to do to discredit it is have it be verifiably wrong somewhere, but he hasn’t.

For example.. and I’m making up the dates and places for the example...

Say the dossier says trump is getting peed on at the mariot hotel in Moscow, June 17th 2011.. .


Well all trump has to do is prove he wasn’t in Moscow in June 17th..

He hasn’t done that to ANY of the dossier claims that I have seen and even one verifiable falsehood kinda brings the whole thing into question..

If there were a verifiable falsehood. I assume Fox News would be running it on repeate, but they are not.


THE ONLY REASON people say it has been discredited is because it makes crazy claims.. like trump getting peed on.

But in reality we don’t know what trump does for kicks..


I never claimed everything in the dossier has been validated..

You said everything in it has been discredited, and you can’t name one single thing that has been proven to be false.
edit on 4-2-2018 by JoshuaCox because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 4 2018 @ 02:23 AM
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My how the right has changed their tune.

A year ago...

Black Americans make the claim law enforcement is corrupt.

The right: You're a disgrace, respect law enforcement

Now...

Rich White Americans make the claim law enforcement is corrupt

The right: You're right, down with law enforcement.



posted on Feb, 4 2018 @ 02:30 AM
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a reply to: kenodinks

The fbi has been investigating carter page for years..

He is a known Russian stooge..

Them watching page predated trump by YEARS...



So any BS about it being a witch hunt is laughable..


Especially after this from trump Jr..


Good morning Emin just called and asked me to contact you with something very interesting. The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father. This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump - helped along by Aras and Emin. What do you think is the best way to handle this information and would you be able to speak to Emin about it directly? I can also send this info to your father via Rhona, but it is ultra sensitive so wanted to send to you first. Best Rob Goldstone



That alone gets you a warrant for whatever you want..



posted on Feb, 4 2018 @ 02:31 AM
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a reply to: Wardaddy454

Great rebuttal!!!

You should teach debate classes!!!

Lmao..



posted on Feb, 4 2018 @ 02:34 AM
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Good morning Emin just called and asked me to contact you with something very interesting. The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father. This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump - helped along by Aras and Emin. What do you think is the best way to handle this information and would you be able to speak to Emin about it directly? I can also send this info to your father via Rhona, but it is ultra sensitive so wanted to send to you first. Best Rob Goldstone
a reply to: JBurns

Do you keep forgetting this exists?!?!

Then Jared Kushner, Trump Jr and the campaign chaimman manifort went to the meeting..


A meeting precisely laying out Russian collusion..


Pretending like “there is no evidence for collusion “ after that email is just dishonest..



posted on Feb, 4 2018 @ 04:11 AM
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a reply to: amazing





posted on Feb, 4 2018 @ 04:24 AM
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originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
a reply to: amazing




Yep - there it is folks, perfectly summarised without all the autistic screeching, deflection and Nancys national security concerns.



posted on Feb, 4 2018 @ 04:50 AM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox

Good morning Emin just called and asked me to contact you with something very interesting. The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father. This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump - helped along by Aras and Emin. What do you think is the best way to handle this information and would you be able to speak to Emin about it directly? I can also send this info to your father via Rhona, but it is ultra sensitive so wanted to send to you first. Best Rob Goldstone
a reply to: JBurns

Do you keep forgetting this exists?!?!

Then Jared Kushner, Trump Jr and the campaign chaimman manifort went to the meeting..


A meeting precisely laying out Russian collusion..


Pretending like “there is no evidence for collusion “ after that email is just dishonest..




I bet you are serious about this.

It was a set up?

Did they pay for any info?

Did they get a nice dossier at the meeting?

I bet he got an email from some nigerian prince at one time too.






posted on Feb, 4 2018 @ 06:49 AM
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a reply to: [post=23113200]JBurns

Are you a friend of Robert Mueller or on his team?



posted on Feb, 4 2018 @ 06:51 AM
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a reply to: Wardaddy454

I have not assumed the dossier is made up. All this trouble around it, must be real and bad stuff in it.



posted on Feb, 4 2018 @ 07:59 AM
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a reply to: amazing

I quit reading your OP as soon as you said Benghazi was "nothing".

Fools are complacent in their ignorance.



posted on Feb, 4 2018 @ 08:41 AM
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a reply to: Cancerwarrior

Nothing came from it even if it needs to be talked about. Which is what happened, innit?

BIKE LOCK HER UP?



posted on Feb, 4 2018 @ 08:56 AM
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a reply to: kenodinks

That's a very interesting analysis and hypothesis. If I am understanding one of your points, you are suggesting that Page was planted into the Trump campaign specifically because it would give them an excuse to spy on the campaign? That's a new suggestion and food for thought.

Perhaps someone made a deal with Page and/or others to embed him in the campaign, specifically because they had previous information to push for a warrant. When that failed, they then added the dossier. But either way, they already knew that Page in the campaign would lead to embarrassment, so it was win-win for the Dems.




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