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WAR: Australian Terror Suspect - Guilty Until Proven Innocent

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posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 02:23 PM
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Australian terror suspect, Mamdouh Habib, recently released after being detained for three years without being charged at Guantanamo Bay, has returned to Australia only to have his passport cancelled indefinitely and his status assessed as a person of "great concern" by ASIO, Australia's major intelligence agency.
 



story.news.yahoo .com
SYDNEY, (AFP) - Australia's spy agency has independently assessed former Guantanamo Bay detainee Mamdouh Habib as a person "of great concern" because of his alleged affiliation with Al-Qaeda, Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said.

Downer said he had cancelled Habib's passport since his return last month to Australia from the US naval base in Cuba because of the adverse assessment by Australian Security Intelligence Organisation (ASIO), made independently of US intelligence.

US authorities accused [Habib] of having trained with Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan and of having prior knowledge of the September 11, 2001 attacks in the United States but he was released without being charged on his return to Australia.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


After three years of investigation and brutal incarceration failing to find enough evidence to lay any charges against Habib, it is unconventional and unacceptable that he should be released only to find his civil rights further infringed upon in his own country. The negative assessment of Habib's status will also guarantee that he, his family and their associates will be under constant surveillance by Australian intelligence for many years to come.

The decision and subsequent announcement by the Howard government may be seen by some as an attempt to curry favour from the Bush administration.

In related news, Habib alleged, during an Australian television interview last Sunday, that he was "beaten, given electric shocks, sexually humiliated and nearly drowned while under U.S. supervision" in addition to being "administered drugs and isolated in solitary confinement". Habib alleges that torture methods were used to elicit a false confession of guilt from him.
Link.


Related News Links:
www.news.com.au
story.news.yahoo.com
story.news.yahoo.com
story.news.yahoo.com




posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 04:06 PM
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this is just disgusting. I am sick to my stomach to call myself an australian citizen today.



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 06:48 AM
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Originally posted by General Zapata
this is just disgusting. I am sick to my stomach to call myself an australian citizen today.


My sentiments exactly, GZ. A sad day for Australia and a sad day for justice. What's next, the Australian Patriot Act?



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 07:03 AM
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How many austrailians died in the bali bombing? If this guy was "innocent" he would be let go. How did he get from austrailia to afganistain and why? How wasn't picked up on the streets of Pretty or darwin was he! Gezz people, get a clue here..........



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 07:40 AM
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Another story of the poor oppressed "innocent"
Scream and claim "torture" when caught has become the new motto and norm of those caught and taught such a discipline in the Terrorist Guide to Being a Successful Terrorist, Chapter 12: "What To Say When Caught."


as posted by wecomeinpeace
In related news, Habib alleged, during an Australian television interview last Sunday, that he was "beaten, given electric shocks, sexually humiliated and nearly drowned while under U.S. supervision" in addition to being "administered drugs and isolated in solitary confinement". Habib alleges that torture methods were used to elicit a false confession of guilt from him.


Some people will swallow anything, huh, General Zapata?

Whats interesting about Mr. Habib is that even the Australian Muslim community is questioning him and what he says. That he owes them some answers:
Habib 'owes Muslims an explanation'

There are holes in what Mr. Habib is saying and asserting:
Ruddock disputes Habib's claim
No evidence of Habib torture: Keelty

I say give Mr. Habib his due and let him speak, assert, and claim, all he wants, for he was not the first and will not be the last. My only contention is that when the time comes to either sit or get off the toilet, that Mr. Habib produce the evidences and proofs to back his assertions and claims. Till then, let those who will pay $200,000 to have him spout his claims and assertions on TV keep paying till they are blue in the face. Either he can walk the walk or keep talking the talk, and the latter seems to be the road most traveled. Easy to claim, but seems to be quite difficult for many to remotely produce anything resembling evidences and proofs for those claims and assertion. Typical for this day and age of society.




seekerof

[edit on 16-2-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 07:41 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
How many austrailians died in the bali bombing?

Eighty eight out of two hundred and two. But what's that got to do with this guy? Ohhhh, that's right. He's surnamed Habib, so he must be a Muslim and he therefore must have been involved in the Bali bombing. Amazing deduction, Watson! Gee, and I thought he was an Australian as well...


If this guy was "innocent" he would be let go.

Newsflash! He was let go.


How did he get from austrailia to afganistain and why?

Hmm...ever think maybe he's got family over there and he's worried about them? Oh no, that's right, all Muslim's are heartless, mindless killers. My bad.


Gezz people, get a clue here..........

I'm trying, I'm sorry. Maybe it's my bad upbringing, but no evidence after three years to even lay a "conspiring to commit" makes a person pretty much inncocent in my books. I dunno, Doc, maybe you're right. Maybe we should lock up and brutalize every Muslim on the planet who goes near the Middle-East. Great idea! Lead on, valiant crusader!



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 08:59 AM
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He was in the capital of Pakistan when he was captured, NOT in Afganistan. I don't mind people drawing their own conclusions about whether he was telling the truth about his reasons for being there but please get the location right. If he is proven guilty i sure won't complain if they do whatever fits his crime, but until then he is innocent or even if he isn't innocent they still have to prove he is guilty before action can be taken. The issue isn't whether he is guilty or not, it's whether or not he was proven to be guilty and if he is proven guilty and given a fair trial you would not hear one complaint from me. It may sound strange because it the opposite of the ways things are done but now he is back in Australia we should give him a trial so he can prove his innocence or if he is guilty of terrorism he should not be allowed to go free and if the trial confirms his guilt than so be it.

[edit on 16-2-2005 by Trent]



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 09:28 AM
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If I remember the reasons for his being there were mentioned in another thread. He was thinking of leaving Australia with his family, he was looking for schools for his children while abroad. You would certainly think 3 years was long enough to bring charges, if any were deserved.

Yes he was in Pakistan when arrested, I think they said he was on his way to the airport to fly home. He was arrested in a general roundup, not because he was engaged in any Terrorist activities.

Bali bombing Horacid, of all the irrelvencies...



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 09:36 AM
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read up on it. they are pretty much proof positive they can prove he trained with al-queda, its the intent to harm americancs they couldnt prove.

also, he was paid for his interviews. he said he 'sold coffe' to finance the trip.

yeah, coffe with opium in the bottom of the can...



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 09:40 AM
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So now you say he is a drug dealer too? *shakes head*, I give up.



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 10:00 AM
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...now he is back in Australia we should give him a trial so he can prove his innocence or if he is guilty of terrorism he should not be allowed to go free and if the trial confirms his guilt than so be it.

That's precisely the point. If there was enough evidence to charge him, he would have been on trial in Guantanamo Bay just as Australian terror suspect David Hicks is.

No evidence, no charges, no trial.

"Innocent until proven guilty." This is one of the underlying principles that justice is founded on in free societies. In a fascist or communist regime however, they lock you up for as long as they please based on a simple accusation, evidence be damned.

If they find evidence to put him on trial, I'm sure he will be retaken into custody to face charges. Until that day, which, after three years is unlikely to come, he should have all of his rights returned to him and perhaps should even be at liberty to sue for damages.



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Some people will swallow anything, huh, General Zapata?


hey, he might very well be guilty. However, NO CHARGES HAVE BEEN BROUGHT AGAINST HIM, even after 3 and a half years in Guantanamo Bay. This is what is disgusting. Its almost as if Downer said, 'y'know what? I'm not gonna bother with a trial or the formal methods which all australian citizens must be afforded, i'll just declare him guilty and be done with it.'



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 09:29 PM
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Sorry I have no sympathy for him, he's either stupid, a liar, or niave. I vote for a liar.

Does he really expect us to believe that he was in pakistan looking for a school for his kids?

Its utter bull#, he deserves everything he gets coming to him.



posted on Feb, 18 2005 @ 10:22 AM
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ok listen, i was being sarcastic about the opium in the can. the piont is that the reason they did not charge him is, its hard to prove intent. they know he was in a terrorist training camp. What was he doing there? If one person can give me a legitimate reason to leave your family behind and go to a terrorist training camp, please explain it now, i would like to understand.

and the reason they kept him for 3 years is they were trying to flip him (i.e. get him to snitch). is that wrong? yes. is it better than having him train as a terrorist for 3 years? absolutely.

nobody gives a # till its their hood that gets bombed. im all for civil liberties and human rights but im also all for putting a bullet in the head of anyone who attacks me with the intent to kill. he didnt attack so he didnt get the bullet, but he went to the class that taught him to kill whitey so he needs to be in detention.

if this joker would have been released with no media attention and let back in, and then did some terrorist act (which is a very high probability) people would be bitching out the intelligence community and the us government and austrailian government.

[edit on 18-2-2005 by jprophet420]



posted on Feb, 18 2005 @ 11:43 AM
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They don't "know" he was in these camps. They "allege" he was. The only story I can find where they state more concretely that he was there is this one.

au.news.yahoo.com
Quoting "a high-level source", the Daily Telegraph said both Australians were in the Afghan capital receiving training from senior members of Osama bin Laden's terrorist group when their paths crossed.
Hmm...not particularly convincing.

This is an issue, not because a single man was found to be perhaps unjustly incarcerated, but rather because due process is being overridden. The tenets that our ideas of justice are built on are being bypassed and chipped away at, bit by bit, in the name of catching the bogeyman. There are no exceptions and no instances where it is okay to ignore due process. If this becomes the norm, no-one will be safe from incarceration without justification. Not you. Not me. Not anybody. If it was your family member in the same situation, you'd be screaming for justice.



posted on Oct, 19 2005 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by wecomeinpeace
A sad day for Australia and a sad day for justice. What's next, the Australian Patriot Act?


I think I should start betting on the football.



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