House Intelligence FISA memo released: What it says

originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986

originally posted by: AboveBoard

originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986

originally posted by: AboveBoard
What if the memo narrative is a lie?

What if you are being manipulated into believing malfeasance on the part of the FBI and DOJ when there is none?

Please give me an honest answer to this.

I could ask you the same question from the other side.

What if it isn't, and everything else you thought to be true was a lie?

Sure. Answer mine first.

What if the memo is a lie?

That's a hard question for me to answer because all evidence leads me to believe it is accurate. Even before the memo was released, I was 99% convinced that these things were already happening. Confirmation bias? Possibly, but most of us that already saw this, seen it because it was so glaringly obvious--not because we wanted to see it. That's the difference. And quite frankly, it takes a lot of conjecture, projection, bias and emotion to consistently deny what is right in front of your face.


So, what if it is true?

Take your response and read it back to yourself, but from me to you. Except insert “Not True”

One additional thing though is that in my case, if the FBI did something wrong, it should trigger the appropriate legal response from the DOJ.

a reply to: Krazysh0t


Probably waiting for Mueller to do the right thing, and come clean.

The entire basis of the investigation is flawed, it has leaked something fierce, no evidence has been substantiated/produced and the investigative team (including many in the DOJ/FBI/Obama WH) have now been outed.

There is nothing left to any of this, save for the investigations/censure/arrests of those involved in this conspiracy.

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: Grambler


Again, you yourself for pages said Page admitted he met with sechin; you were wrong, as was the dossier.

Can you help me out with that? I have been through my posts in thread...Where did I say it was Sechin?

you say "for pages" I claimed this?

Point me to a post here.

I thought that is what you said. Your posts are all edited though, so who knows.

Regardless, the dossier was wrong, he didnt meet with sechin.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: luthier
FUNNY NOBODY is mentioning FISA as the problem.

Looks like people don't actually care about America. They want to punish a party.


Nobody questioning the judges or the process?

Hmm

There are threads about the FISA process in and of itself. This thread is about a memo related to a specific warrant that it appears was obtained through improper means. Feel free to post that in one of the FISA process threads as evidence why the program needs to go away.

Unless you are a mod I will continue to try and impress aponthe relevance of questioning the fisa process and how it will allow these claims to go unpunished.

If you insist upon bringing up the overall FISA program, I will say that anyone concerned about that program should be doubly concerned about it being abused and want to see those who abused it brought to justice. If they're not, it would set a very dangerous precedent that yeah, go ahead and use this program for political purposes and you'll get away with it.

I do which is why I support the bipartisan effort in the Senate judiciary as well as the IG. Not some political or stunt that slows their work down.

Fair enough.

Truce.

Not a Democrat

Just a cynical prick

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Krazysh0t


Probably waiting for Mueller to do the right thing, and come clean.

The Memo was as revealing and credible as any right-wing screed posted on ATS.

It did however encourage the FBI/CIA/NSA and Special Counsel to present their facts sooner than later.

This does not end well for GOP and Trump.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: sdcigarpig

No Nunes did not and was cleared after a 10 month long ethics investigation.

The memo was written by the intel committee and not solely Nunes.

The FBI/DOJ lied to the FISA court. Judges in any court have to rely on the fact lawyers and law enforcement are officers of the court and wont lie when it comes to submitting legal paperwork before it.

Violations are severe when it comes to the case in question and it usually ends not only any investigation / prosecution but the careers of the people who lied (Giglio violations).

See, Hillary was "supposed to win" and none of this was ever supposed to come out. I mean look how long after Obama was out for the Project Cassandra[ to hit the news, and that involved all sorts of people in various agencies outside of the TOP SECRET loop who were being stonewalled trying to run their foreign terrorist drugs cartel investigations. This stuff here was tight insider loops and TOP SECRET classifications. Not to mention under Hillary we wouldn't have expected to hear about Project Cassandra until after her 8 years and Obama was old news.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

OMG talk about burying your head in the sand? Are you completely delusional, everything you've asked for has been proven or provided, you think the the FISA warrant is a lie... because you haven't seen it?

Where have you been? Under a rock? Have you just turned CNN on for the first time in 6 months?

Unbelievable

a reply to: sdcigarpig

OMG talk about burying your head in the sand? Are you completely delusional, everything you've asked for has been proven or provided, you think the the FISA warrant is a lie... because you haven't seen it?

Where have you been? Under a rock? Have you just turned CNN on for the first time in 6 months?

Unbelievable

a reply to: sdcigarpig

OMG talk about burying your head in the sand? Are you completely delusional, everything you've asked for has been proven or provided, you think the the FISA warrant is a lie... because you haven't seen it?

Where have you been? Under a rock? Have you just turned CNN on for the first time in 6 months?

Unbelievable

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

originally posted by: CrawlingChaos

originally posted by: luthier
FUNNY NOBODY is mentioning FISA as the problem.

Looks like people don't actually care about America. They want to punish a party.


Nobody questioning the judges or the process?

Hmm

No a lot of us were bitching about this, but we were just "Coo-coo conspiracy nuts " because Obama would never abuse this authority... And before Obama, we were "coo-coo conspiracy nuts" because Bush would never abuse his authority...

Thank you. And it goes all the way back to Bill Clinton and Echelon, back when we were total complete off the charts nutters for talking about it.

I tell this to my kids all the time, "You can't trust the Government. I know I sound crazy ; But it's true. You can't just trust the Government, because it's made up of people."

It should be noted, though, that some legal experts have already pointed out that the F.B.I. and the Justice Department weren’t under any legal obligation to inform the court about who paid for the dossier. On top of this, most of the information that the government did give to the court is still classified. FISA applications usually run to more than sixty pages. Democrats on the House Intelligence Committee have written a counter-memo, which they claim lays out what else the F.B.I. knew about Page when it applied to surveil him, but so far Republicans have refused to allow the minority party to release that document to the public. The F.B.I. seems likely to have pointed out to the court that Page, a frequent visitor to Russia, had been on the radar of its counterintelligence division for several years, and that two suspected Russian intelligence agents, one of whom the Justice Department subsequently charged, had tried to recruit him as a spy, in 2013.

www.newyorker.com...

Sorry guys but I think this memo is a dud - partisan mis-direction.

a reply to: AboveBoard

if the FBI did something wrong, it should trigger the appropriate legal response from the DOJ.

My sentiments exactly AB. It is not like any of this was unexpected or unthinkable. The worst part is seeing it confirmed/actually written on a document that as of this morning was still sitting in an SCIF with other top secret material. I suppose it is sobering to see just how severe the abuses were.

Now my question is, how long has this been going on? How many others are victim to this? Looking past Obama even into Bush Jr., how many were targeted under his orders/guidance? Or some of the earlier programs, before the bulk intercept programs were ubiquitous and the NSA became a global threat actor instead of the good guys

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

The Dow closed down 666 points today.
Biggest drop since Brexit.
Just in case you were looking for another conspiracy.
SATAN.

a reply to: AboveBoard

Ok, fair enough. But if I could be totally honest with you, a lot of your arguments and premises you've presented leading up to this release are laced full of just that; projection, conjecture, emotion and bias. I understand your stance and why you feel the way you do, but from the outside looking in it is difficult for me to see it any other way.

Time will tell I guess.. hopefully.

a reply to: smurfy

"United States antitrust law is a collection of federal and state government laws that regulates the conduct and organization of business corporations, generally to promote fair competition for the benefit of consumers."

The government is not a business corporation. That law does not apply.

I dare say you might squeeze in other types of power broking in too, especially if not in the country's best interests.

I dare say not. The law is the law as written, not as interpreted by whoever is arguing for/against it. If we're doing that, we could include almost anything as illegal.

No.

TheRedneck

a reply to: soberbacchus




Why turn a blind eye to evidence of abuse/crimes? I implore you to stop traveling down the rabbit hole, and take an impartial look at all the available evidence.

You will be shocked at who is brainwashing who, and who is being used to further a very intentional political agenda.

a reply to: JBurns

Looking past Obama even into Bush Jr., how many were targeted under his orders/guidance?

That, sir, is a rabbit hole I don't think you want to follow down. It's pretty deep, and some of those steps are doozeys.

You have to go all the way back to J. Edgar Hoover.

TheRedneck

a reply to: soberbacchus

I can't answer that, and yes it was verified ; Are not the same thing.

While I might be confused, it does happen I cannot deny it ; I am not a liar.

Here:

COMEY: I didn’t use the term counterintelligence. I was briefing him about salacious and unverified material. It was in a context of that that he had a strong and defensive reaction about that not being true. My reading of it was it was important for me to assure him we were not person investigating him.

Comey himself calls it unverified.

a reply to: underwerks

Is that right!?

Let me direct you to Xcath's comment, it is nice and succinct!

originally posted by: Xcathdra
So there was no other source information used in conjunction with the dossier. The dossier ALONE was used to obtain the FISA warrant - ILLEGALLY.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: luthier
FUNNY NOBODY is mentioning FISA as the problem.

Looks like people don't actually care about America. They want to punish a party.


Nobody questioning the judges or the process?

Hmm

There are threads about the FISA process in and of itself. This thread is about a memo related to a specific warrant that it appears was obtained through improper means. Feel free to post that in one of the FISA process threads as evidence why the program needs to go away.

Unless you are a mod I will continue to try and impress aponthe relevance of questioning the fisa process and how it will allow these claims to go unpunished.

If you insist upon bringing up the overall FISA program, I will say that anyone concerned about that program should be doubly concerned about it being abused and want to see those who abused it brought to justice. If they're not, it would set a very dangerous precedent that yeah, go ahead and use this program for political purposes and you'll get away with it.

I do which is why I support the bipartisan effort in the Senate judiciary as well as the IG. Not some political or stunt that slows their work down.

Fair enough.

Truce.

Not a Democrat

Just a cynical prick

You're certainly justified to be cynical about government surveillance programs.