We are witnessing Trickle Down Economics WORKING!

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: olaru12

Prices are not set by adding up all the things that go into manufacturing a product, it is what the market will bear-example is pharma products.

Trickle down will not and does not work. But what the hell, let's try it again.

Agreed 100%. For profit companies do not act like charities. The consumer will nil benefit, the companies profits will increase at their expense though.

How anyone can't see this based on history, basic ecomincs and common sense escapes me.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Numbers123
a reply to: seasonal

The corporate tax cut is already having AMAZING effects. Apple is bringing back billions, and paying $38 BILLION in taxes. Think that through, the whiny liberals said the tax cut would cost $1.5 trillion. Well Apple alone just whipped out 20% of that. What about Microsoft, Google, Net Flix, Caterpillar, and all the other companies?

Word out is Q1 is on track to see a 5.6% GDP growth, the ninny left said that could NEVER happen.

Just like when Reagan took over, we had been told for a decade slow growth was the "new normal", now we are seeing Reagan's policies brought back, and we are getting Reagan era results.

I am seeing hundreds of our business clients budgeting for, and starting, capital projects that have been on hold for years.

I personally and starting construction on two commercial buildings, one is a boat storage and one is a machine shop. Also investing in a new house on the 30 acres I just purchased.

Biggest problem is finding contractors.

Its a DAMN good time to be an AMERICAN!

38 billion is 20% of 1.5 trillion?

That's what made me lol - seems the OP doesn't understand basic maths or units, hence the support for the plans.

It's a damn good time not to be a product of American 'education' if their example is anything to go by.

originally posted by: bastion

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: olaru12

Prices are not set by adding up all the things that go into manufacturing a product, it is what the market will bear-example is pharma products.

Trickle down will not and does not work. But what the hell, let's try it again.

Agreed 100%. For profit companies do not act like charities. The consumer will nil benefit, the companies profits will increase at their expense though.

How anyone can't see this based on history, basic ecomincs and common sense escapes me.

What is rarely discussed is when a tax cut is made for a certain group without corresponding cuts in spending, there is a net loss in taxes collected so the other group/groups make up the diff (tax increases).
And if we are going to grow our way out of this then let's grow then we can cut taxes. We seem to be doing this backwards.

originally posted by: bastion

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: olaru12

Prices are not set by adding up all the things that go into manufacturing a product, it is what the market will bear-example is pharma products.

Trickle down will not and does not work. But what the hell, let's try it again.

Agreed 100%. For profit companies do not act like charities. The consumer will nil benefit, the companies profits will increase at their expense though.

How anyone can't see this based on history, basic ecomincs and common sense escapes me.

You are only partially correct. Competition is what lowers prices.

Any reduction in costs (i.e. taxes) is what allows companies to be more competitive within their market and lower prices. This is why companies are so obsessive over costs.

Consumers care about low prices. The reality is that 99% of consumers don't care how a company does it, they just want lower costs.

Companies respond to this behavior by consumers by seeking to lower their costs through automation, outsourcing, and other efficiencies.

If corporate taxes go down, sooner or later a competitor will use that windfall to lower their prices to gain market share. The other companies have to respond in kind by lowering their prices.

Greed is what keeps things in check as there is always a company that will seek to lower prices to gain share. The only way this doesn't work is if their is collusion by the market to keep prices high. This type of collusion is illegal.

a reply to: Edumakated

The only way this doesn't work is if their is collusion by the market to keep prices high. This type of collusion is illegal.

Haven't done much investigation into the oil and gas business have you or pharmaceuticals... Or why some farmers destroy crops in the field, Or Healthcare in general, Or the Automotive industry... No collusion there, right...price fixing is flag the corporate Oligarchy flies.



Say hello to Aunt Bea!

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: Edumakated

The only way this doesn't work is if their is collusion by the market to keep prices high. This type of collusion is illegal.

Haven't done much investigation into the oil business have you or pharmaceuticals... Or why some farmers destroy crops in the field, Or Healthcare in general, Or the Automotive industry... No collusion there, right...price fixing is flag the corporate Oligarchy flies.

Say hello to Aunt Bea!

Oil is a commodity. The only price fixing is through OPEC which isn't the US. That is an entirely different subject. Pharma is dealing with intellectual property and recouping high cost that is inherent in R&D. Again, totally different situations. Agriculture... a bigger issue is government subsidies, but again that is an entirely different topic.

What collusion is there in the automotive industry? Are you seriously arguing car manufacturers don't compete on price?

The tax plan has been in effect for one day. That's supposed to be proof that trickle down works? People to this day think trickle down worked under Reagan but looking at the numbers prove this isn't true. Every time it has been tried the rich get richer, middle class income stagnates, the poverty rate increases, and it all ends with a recession. What makes you think this current attempt will be any different?

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
The tax plan has been in effect for one day. That's supposed to be proof that trickle down works? People to this day think trickle down worked under Reagan but looking at the numbers prove this isn't true. Every time it has been tried the rich get richer, middle class income stagnates, the poverty rate increases, and it all ends with a recession. What makes you think this current attempt will be any different?

Middle class wages stagnated because of structural changes in the economy, most of which aren't related to tax cuts... again, think about what changed since WWII.

After WWII, the US economy boomed because we were practically the only industrialized country that wasn't bombed the hell. All those GIs came home and there was work to do building stuff and there really was nowhere else that had the capacity or resources to be a manufacturing economy.

All that started to change though... by the 70s, companies started exploring overseas labor markets as they were freed from unions and could lower costs. Again, see my response above. Once Company X started doing it, Company Y had to do it to remain competitive. Especially for low cost consumer goods... think clothing, electronics, etc.

The other thing is technology eliminated a lot of jobs that were no longer necessary.... think secretaries. I recall at my first job out of college, we I had a secretary. She typed memos and did all sorts of adminstrative tasks. That job was eliminated within 3 years of me starting work. My job required a ton of travel (as in weekly), so our office had a full time travel agencies on staff to manage travel schedules. We'd call them up and say "I need tickets to NYC" and they'd take care of it. Right around this time, the internet started taking off.... there goes the human travel agents. All that stuff moved online and the company's employees did it themselves instead of calling a person staffed just for that role.

The US has moved from a manufacturing to a service economy. The new middle class jobs being created require college degrees, etc. A lot of the middle class jobs you could get with a high school degree 30-40 years ago are gone.

Combine this with our piss poor education system, now you see why wages have stagnated. It has nothing to do with tax cuts. Tax cuts are what would help as it could potentially get some of these jobs back to the US.

We have to make it cheaper to do business here to keep those jobs from going away.

a reply to: mblahnikluver

Find another insurance company to work for, my lowest paid receptionist makes a lot more than $13/hr, and we live in a low cost of living area!

a reply to: Eshel

Yal, obviously you not wanting to discuss the math, jumping to slurs and insults is what people do when they have lost the argument.

Bottom line, your tax rate went down by at least 10%, likely more.

If you don't understand that math, well, I aint't here to educate you.

originally posted by: Numbers123
a reply to: Eshel

Yal, obviously you not wanting to discuss the math, jumping to slurs and insults is what people do when they have lost the argument.

Bottom line, your tax rate went down by at least 10%, likely more.

If you don't understand that math, well, I aint't here to educate you.

You're the one that put this thread in the Mud Pit! It's to late to whine now.

And the pitaful 10% will be eaten up by runaway inflation. Printing money to pay the interest on the debt..good luck with that!!!

of course, trickle up wealth has never worked anywhere. I never got more money from someone less fortunate than me.

a reply to: amfirst1

Trickle up wealth never works?

If it didn't work them the employees would be wealthier than the owners.

a reply to: olaru12

Gesh, inflation has been super low for more than a decade.

And a little inflation is not a bad thing

Wages are growing at a much faster rate

And liberals now worried about the debt! It’s like you guys finally found religion!!!!

a reply to: olaru12

Gesh, inflation has been super low for more than a decade.

And a little inflation is not a bad thing

Wages are growing at a much faster rate

And liberals now worried about the debt! It’s like you guys finally found religion!!!!

So, the Walmart bonus is only given out to employee's who have worked there for 20+ years. Also, those same employee's had their next couple of weeks hours reduced (strangely in the exact amount of the bonus they received) so that the net pay effect is zero.

Seems like some folks were duped again.....

a reply to: Edumakated

Can't disagree with that, in paper it makes perfect sense. The problem is the assumption of healthy competition (good) - low prices, high quality, etc.. va market dominance/megacorps/multi-nationals that break the price fixing laws and stagnate product development.

Net result is the 'too big to fail' companies gain more wealth and power at the price of the consumer. Competition is priced out the market for short term coonsumre gain that is to be dwarfed by the higher prices set in the future once market share increases.

Here in the UK the regulatory bodies to prevent collusion are so weak they've been renamed 'financial service authority' to 'fundamentaly surpine authrority' as the fines levied (if they ever happen) are less than .1% of the profit gained through illegal price rigging.

Not saying I have the perfect answer, I just see trickle down being at best bait on a hook as it just leads to monopolisation and price fixing in general.

originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: Edumakated

Can't disagree with that, in paper it makes perfect sense. The problem is the assumption of healthy competition (good) - low prices, high quality, etc.. va market dominance/megacorps/multi-nationals that break the price fixing laws and stagnate product development.

Net result is the 'too big to fail' companies gain more wealth and power at the price of the consumer. Competition is priced out the market for short term coonsumre gain that is to be dwarfed by the higher prices set in the future once market share increases.

Here in the UK the regulatory bodies to prevent collusion are so weak they've been renamed 'financial service authority' to 'fundamentaly surpine authrority' as the fines levied (if they ever happen) are less than .1% of the profit gained through illegal price rigging.

Not saying I have the perfect answer, I just see trickle down being at best bait on a hook as it just leads to monopolisation and price fixing in general.

A lot of what you mention is driven by government interference and regulations. I work in banking and see this all the time. The regulatory regime has made it very difficult for small banks to compete because they can't spread the costs across an behemoth organization like the too big to fail banks. The end result is that the larger companies get larger and the smaller companies go out of business.

a reply to: Numbers123

And liberals now worried about the debt! It’s like you guys finally found religion!!!!

Liberal?

exmilitary, Libertarian
supprt the 2nd,
capital punishment, free enterprise and capitalism.

Is it that I don't support the white trash president that makes me a liberal? The same president that was F***ing a porn star while his wife was having their son. Character and honor still mean a lot to some of us.

a reply to: olaru12

Congrats.

Let's all separate into our little groups.

96% of the people want the same thing. Fair compensation for the labor-safe communities and quality and affordable access to social services.

9 years ago I removed my "conservative" cloak realizing I don't fit into the mold, and because of that I'm not welcomed.