Immigration and the left.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: network dude
I am not sure if you are doing this intentionally, or you really do believe this. First off, doing something that is hard or that others thing is impossible, are the defining moments in our history. Not the US history, WORLD history. Those who we consider to be great men and women, did things others thought impossible, for the benefit of mankind. I don't claim to be even close to that kind of person, but I admire and respect the drive and determination a person would have to be that great.

For the THIRD time, I didn't say that leveling a mountain is impossible. I am a FIRM believer in the saying, "Where there is a will, there is a way." Of course it can be done if the desire and effort were there. The point I'm making is that the desire and effort AREN'T there. Instead we do things like build tunnels through mountains or cut valleys into the tops of them to make passage through easier. This is just an analogy anyways. There isn't exactly a need to level any mountains out there.

Second, yes, immigration is a problem and as long as we have the sh!t, others will want to be part of our sh!t. And there is a right way to go about that. If we give up and say protecting the borders is just way too hard, let's all just do a few bong rips and sing kum buy ya, then we aren't part of the solution, we are a YUGE part of the problem. Sadly, it's starting to sound like that's your position on this and that is sad to me. Being the kind of person who runs away from anything hard is not the kind of person I respect or even tolerate. Kids can learn how to overcome that mentality, adults just try to defend it. I sincerely hope that your statements on this are just based on your need to be a good partisan leftie and not how you really approach life.

I don't come to ATS looking for your respect or tolerance. Plus I've yet to converse with you where I got the feeling you were giving it to me to begin with. I've always spoken to you under the assumption that you have zero respect for me, my positions, and my thoughts. So your words and threats here are toothless.

For instance, in this very paragraph you have decided what I think without actually asking me if it is true all so you can use that as proof of why you shouldn't like me. Textbook example of your ongoing disrespect for me. You probably didn't even realize you were doing it either because you do it so naturally.

I respect you as a member of this community. I vehemently disagree with almost everything you say here. The liberal mindset is something I disagree with and I am a firm believer that my opinion is correct. It's why I choose to keep arguing for the same things. You irritate me, along with several other people in this thread. But you provide the silly fodder and horribly bad ideals that make my rants possible, so for that, I thank you. And I fully understand that you likely think you are correct. (pro tip, you aren't.)

And it's posts like this that reinforce my opinion of you that I just laid out to you in the previous post. Back handed compliments and insulting me because my opinion differs from yours. In any case, unlike you, I don't think that there is a "correct" answer to any of the political issues we tackle. There is only the answer we choose to undertake and the opinions of the people pushing and pulling it. So maybe that is why you don't understand liberals, your mentality is too different to understand the way we think.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

your inability to recognize humor and continuing to act as if your have a large insect lodged in your rectum is a key factor in my opinion of you as well. we can agree to disagree, on everything.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: network dude

And I don't see how that family is a threat to our borders that requires them to be protected.

And I don't see how the guy who broke into YOUR house and stole all YOUR things is a threat to me. After all, he didn't take MY stuff.

(the above is Hyperbole used to make a point, so consider this a pre-emtive disclaimer)

That's kind of hard since you are comparing a victimless crime to a crime that has victims. I'll just go ahead and ignore it completely because the comparison is silly and nonsensical. How does that sound?

He broke the law, and when he tried to collect money from the IRS on the Social Security number he had stolen, they found out he was illegal and deported him. His greed go the best of him. The fact that he broke the law, doesn't change the fact that he is a nice guy. He broke the law. I don't know of any clearer way to make that point.

Well getting deported for theft is a completely different monster altogether. Especially identity theft. Victimizing someone is still considered immoral to us liberals too you know? I only care about the illegals who haven't done anything wrong and live civilly like the rest of us.

Keep in mind that pot smokers break the law every time that they light up. The law isn't some steadfast entity that can't and never be bent. Like I said in my first post, the law should reflect our morality. If our morality dictates that deporting these people despite entering illegally is immoral then it behooves us to disregard that law or minimize its impact until we can change or remove it.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: network dude

The U.S. was built on an invasion of immigrants. People just got onto ships and sailed over.

So what's the problem ?

LOL, and once those same immigrants all got together to form a nation, the enacted LAWS to govern how we would deal with Immigration. The fact that you and others don't seem to grasp that is "the problem".

So, did Native American Indians draw up those " Laws " ? It was their lands that where " stolen "

And your answer is ?

From the OP that you apparently didn't understand or didn't read:

originally posted by: network dude
We have a country that is made up of mostly immigrants, save for a few folks who were here first, but we took all their stuff, shoved them into camps and gave them shiny beads.

I did in fact read the OP.

However you avoided the question i asked. Here it is again. Did Native American Indians draw up these laws?

In other words, do Native American Indians have an input into the Laws on who should occupy " their " land ?

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: network dude

how are the laws of immigration being overlooked by the left?

Obama had deported more illegals than any other republican president over the last few decades....that easy-to-find statistic is ignored by the right...maybe that's why "network dude" remains baffled....if facts don't fit a certain narrative, ignore them altogether, like trump does.

It's a shame you just aren't up to the task at hand.
I think it's wonderful that Obama took border security seriously. At one time, he had the same stance I do now. I don't know if you are aware of this or not, but Trump is now the President of the US, Obama is out. And Trump has the same thoughts on Immigration that Obama did back then, except now, all the Obama lovers are AGAINST that same kind of policy, which is why this thread was written.

If we all agreed that our borders should be secure and regardless of who, or what color the people are who want to sneak across them, it's wrong, then we wouldn't have the need to even discuss this.

I recommend putting some thought into posts BEFORE making them.

originally posted by: avgguy
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Your buddy is hung up because people get here illegally. You understand every other developed country has immigration laws right?

We don't HAVE to be everyone else you know? America became great because we became the trend setter. Now we want to regress and follow the trends set by other countries?

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Krazysh0t

your inability to recognize humor and continuing to act as if your have a large insect lodged in your rectum is a key factor in my opinion of you as well. we can agree to disagree, on everything.

Yeah. In your travels through life you'll find lots of people who don't find it humorous when you insult them to their face. HILARIOUS isn't it?

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: network dude

The U.S. was built on an invasion of immigrants. People just got onto ships and sailed over.

So what's the problem ?

LOL, and once those same immigrants all got together to form a nation, the enacted LAWS to govern how we would deal with Immigration. The fact that you and others don't seem to grasp that is "the problem".

So, did Native American Indians draw up those " Laws " ? It was their lands that where " stolen "

And your answer is ?

From the OP that you apparently didn't understand or didn't read:

originally posted by: network dude
We have a country that is made up of mostly immigrants, save for a few folks who were here first, but we took all their stuff, shoved them into camps and gave them shiny beads.

I did in fact read the OP.

However you avoided the question i asked. Here it is again. Did Native American Indians draw up these laws?

In other words, do Native American Indians have an input into the Laws on who should occupy " their " land ?

no, they didn't and no, they don't have that ability. While I feel they got the shIt end of the stick, they aren't in a position to dictate US policy to the US. I am not sure what that has to do with my OP, other than I recognized that we took their land and treated them really bad.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Krazysh0t

your inability to recognize humor and continuing to act as if your have a large insect lodged in your rectum is a key factor in my opinion of you as well. we can agree to disagree, on everything.

Yeah. In your travels through life you'll find lots of people who don't find it humorous when you insult them to their face. HILARIOUS isn't it?

Or I suppose we could just disagree.

a reply to: network dude

they don't have that ability

Did you really say that ?

Condescending or what !

a reply to: network dude

We could if you had only said that and didn't include all the unnecessary backhanded compliments.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: network dude

they don't have that ability

Did you really say that ?

Condescending or what !

Wow, I would never have thought I would have to explain something like this to a person who seems to have mastered the keyboard, but well, here goes:

Native Americans once lived here freely and enjoyed living in harmony with the land. As with the globalist empire of kings and queens, Europeans set out to search for new lands, and ultimately take over by force or trickery. They landed here, in the United States, (which only was named that after some inner squabbles) and promptly took over. After many years, and much immigration from other lands, a group of people decided they were Americans and wrote a document called the Constitution. They (now us) formed a nation and over they years, pushed the native American further and further into oblivion. It's sad that it happened, and if I could change it I would, but I can't so it's irrelevant. But as of now, the Native American population is not in control of our nation, they don't have a deciding voice in congress, and to my knowledge, they aren't able to enact changes in border security.

I hope that bit of knowledge is enough to satisfy your craving to attempt to gain some moral high ground.

The left's out of control, hatred for Trump needs to be contained before their scorched earth policy ruins everything for the rest of us.

I don't want to get too OT but whenever the topic of illegal immigration comes up, no one addresses how it effects legal MJ. What exactly are we willing to sacrifice to accommodate criminals? It's naive to think there won't be serious repercussions but that's especially true for western legal grow states like Colorado.

I thought Americans were on board/favored MJ legalization but I guess open, porous borders is more desirable. Imo we can't have both. Not taking illegal immigration seriously will be a fatal blow for the mj industry. It will bring the feds down on the legal industry, impacting good hardworking people because of the misbehaving criminal element.

I'm in a very rural area of southern CO. Large legal grow operations are popping up all over. We have an abundance of cheap land and a low population. Cities have more rules/regs, my area is ideal for large scale growing. Large ops supply dispensaries up north, while providing jobs for locals.

It should be a win/win but cartels have found us. They're attracted to our western location, isolated mountainous region, high quality product and our small rural police force. There's so much open, undeveloped land, LE can't patrol it all. Massive cartel grows have been found and seem to be on the rise.

As a rural resident I don't like cartel sniffing around. We get little police protection because we've never needed it. If cartel is allowed to infect/ruin what we have here in CO, legal MJ will have to go or we'll see the same gang violence that plagues Mexico. It's too expensive to hire/purchase helicopters to protect our sparse population from violent, criminal gangs who shouldn't be here in the first place.

Illegal immigrant criminals will turn our MJ American dream into a nightmare. I used to wander fearlessly in these woods, now I stay closer to home. Our large tourist industry needs to be considered. Tourism is growing because of legalization, cartel/illegal immigration puts guests at risk. We need to decide what we want. Do we want legal MJ, tourism...nice things or illegal immigrant criminals running amok? Can't have both.

Dems need to be careful what they wish for. They're so all over the place with what they want, they fail to see conflicts. I assure you cartel isn't growing pot in Nancy Pelosi's gated neighborhood but it's ok for them to do so in mine?

Most of us here are a mix, latino/native american, generations of my family have lived in southern Colorado but there's always been an influx of people of all colors who love this peaceful, beautiful, sanctuary. It's not about color for us, it's about crime or lack there of. The criminal element will ruin it all and that's something I know a lot about, crime ran me out of my hometown S#@% hole of Gary, IN.

Gary is a great example of what a democratic utopia looks like. Generations voted democrat because they stood for unions/working people and safe neighborhoods. Then one day they threw it all away, sold off our jobs/traded them for welfare. When they saw how destroyed their base was, democratic leaders nurtured/used the criminal element to subsidize/maintain a much preferred, corrupt lifestyle that continues today.

Open borders/protections for illegal immigrant gang members and legalized MJ don't mix. It's as simple as that. I used to be pro MJ legalization, unless immigration is responsibly dealt with I will vote for its repeal should it come to that. We won't tolerate what's occurring in Mexico, no American should.

a reply to: network dude

I may have misconstrued your choice of the word " ability "

The way it came over it made you sound like your were saying Native American Indians are " thick "

Apologies.

a reply to: alldaylong

no worries. I meant no disrespect to Native Americans, only to the liberal left.

a reply to: DBCowboy

They can't come out and openly say that they are for open borders, but they say it all the same.

So you really think that every democrat in the whole United States is for open borders or you just like talking crap?

Every Muslim is a terrorist too.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Teikiatsu

YOU may be talking about legal immigration, but I'm talking about immigration as a whole. Both legal and illegal. Furthermore I don't care what label you give these people, they are all human in my eyes deserving of uniform respect as any other human.

1) So much for ignoring me.

2) I don't care that you merge the two. Illegal is illegal.

3) Respect is an interesting choice of word. We are supposed to respect them, yet they get to disrespect us.

4) They can earn respect by following the laws and getting in line like everyone else who wants to enter the USA legally.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu


2) I don't care that you merge the two. Illegal is illegal.

Al things done illegally are not equally bad.

It's not like sin. Where you can say we are all sinners. So, he without sin cast the first stone.

If I said to you, ye that have not done anything illegal in your life, you deport the undocumented.

Then, nobody would be able to deport the illegals.

a reply to: SaturnFX

Good try but 0/10. That man is not an illegal.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: avgguy
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Your buddy is hung up because people get here illegally. You understand every other developed country has immigration laws right?

We don't HAVE to be everyone else you know? America became great because we became the trend setter. Now we want to regress and follow the trends set by other countries?

I don't know ... maybe for the same reason we have to "regress" and take on their health care systems?

Convenient that other countries are so great when you want a version of what you think they have, but not so great when they don't. Of course, in this case, you might consider that their immigration policies are part of what allow them to remain those other countries you can attempt to browbeat us into accepting your favored position with.

Consider, if the Netherlands had truly open borders, there wouldn't any Amsterdam for you extol the virtues of its drug and prostitution policies.