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Immigration and the left.

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posted on Feb, 1 2018 @ 11:36 AM
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originally posted by: notsure1
a reply to: introvert

Why do you want stricter gun laws? Or guns banned entirely?

And why do you think people want stricter immigration laws?


I do not want stricter gun laws or them to be banned.

Perhaps you are regurgitating what you heard about us Leftists from propaganda outlets.




posted on Feb, 1 2018 @ 11:37 AM
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originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: avgguy
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Or you know just going through naturalization legally where they already perform those tests.

Yeah, it's a shame that natural legalization is stupid expensive, takes many many years, requires access to traveling to and from your home country many times over the process, and CURRENTLY our government also wants to restrict legal immigration access to the country too. My Chinese buddy who has been trying to get a green card for the last decade and half has told me all the hang ups with that system. To be honest, it isn't surprising in the least that people skip it for how much bull# you have to go through.


So your answer is to just rubber-stamp everyone who wants in?

Tell you what, we'll let them in only if progressives proponents take their place in their country of origin to help turn those into utopias.

The hell? Immigration isn't a zero sum policy.

I'll tell YOU what, I'm going to ignore you from now on in this thread.



posted on Feb, 1 2018 @ 11:38 AM
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a reply to: network dude


My point is, there are multiple problems with weak borders, not just what is fair?



Potential Terrorist

Illegal drugs

Human Trafficking

Organ Harvesting


Here’s a thought, maybe people could contact their representatives to try and come up with a better, quicker, less expensive process. Then we will have more workers adding to the tax pool, and less identity fraud!



posted on Feb, 1 2018 @ 11:42 AM
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a reply to: network dude

Yeah, I can see just how adult you are being with the insults to anyone who disagrees with you. Typical conservative reaction.

Still waiting on the logic of all the immigration policies and laws that supposedly aren’t based on feels.



posted on Feb, 1 2018 @ 11:43 AM
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a reply to: network dude

And I don't see how that family is a threat to our borders that requires them to be protected.



posted on Feb, 1 2018 @ 11:44 AM
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originally posted by: KTemplar
a reply to: network dude


My point is, there are multiple problems with weak borders, not just what is fair?



Potential Terrorist

Illegal drugs

Human Trafficking

Organ Harvesting


Here’s a thought, maybe people could contact their representatives to try and come up with a better, quicker, less expensive process. Then we will have more workers adding to the tax pool, and less identity fraud!



I understand your point and don't disagree, I just wanted to clarify that wasn't the intent of my OP.



posted on Feb, 1 2018 @ 11:47 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Your buddy is hung up because people get here illegally. You understand every other developed country has immigration laws right?



posted on Feb, 1 2018 @ 11:49 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: network dude

And I don't see how that family is a threat to our borders that requires them to be protected.


And I don't see how the guy who broke into YOUR house and stole all YOUR things is a threat to me. After all, he didn't take MY stuff.

(the above is Hyperbole used to make a point, so consider this a pre-emtive disclaimer)

He broke the law, and when he tried to collect money from the IRS on the Social Security number he had stolen, they found out he was illegal and deported him. His greed go the best of him. The fact that he broke the law, doesn't change the fact that he is a nice guy. He broke the law. I don't know of any clearer way to make that point.



posted on Feb, 1 2018 @ 11:49 AM
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a reply to: network dude


I realise that. I lived in AZ for 2 years, and what I saw changed me.

Sorry to get off topic; but there are real problems regarding the Border issue that need to be addressed imo.


Like a great President recently said “Americans have dreams too”.




edit on 1-2-2018 by KTemplar because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2018 @ 11:55 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: network dude
I am not sure if you are doing this intentionally, or you really do believe this. First off, doing something that is hard or that others thing is impossible, are the defining moments in our history. Not the US history, WORLD history. Those who we consider to be great men and women, did things others thought impossible, for the benefit of mankind. I don't claim to be even close to that kind of person, but I admire and respect the drive and determination a person would have to be that great.

For the THIRD time, I didn't say that leveling a mountain is impossible. I am a FIRM believer in the saying, "Where there is a will, there is a way." Of course it can be done if the desire and effort were there. The point I'm making is that the desire and effort AREN'T there. Instead we do things like build tunnels through mountains or cut valleys into the tops of them to make passage through easier. This is just an analogy anyways. There isn't exactly a need to level any mountains out there.


Second, yes, immigration is a problem and as long as we have the sh!t, others will want to be part of our sh!t. And there is a right way to go about that. If we give up and say protecting the borders is just way too hard, let's all just do a few bong rips and sing kum buy ya, then we aren't part of the solution, we are a YUGE part of the problem. Sadly, it's starting to sound like that's your position on this and that is sad to me. Being the kind of person who runs away from anything hard is not the kind of person I respect or even tolerate. Kids can learn how to overcome that mentality, adults just try to defend it. I sincerely hope that your statements on this are just based on your need to be a good partisan leftie and not how you really approach life.

I don't come to ATS looking for your respect or tolerance. Plus I've yet to converse with you where I got the feeling you were giving it to me to begin with. I've always spoken to you under the assumption that you have zero respect for me, my positions, and my thoughts. So your words and threats here are toothless.

For instance, in this very paragraph you have decided what I think without actually asking me if it is true all so you can use that as proof of why you shouldn't like me. Textbook example of your ongoing disrespect for me. You probably didn't even realize you were doing it either because you do it so naturally.


I respect you as a member of this community. I vehemently disagree with almost everything you say here. The liberal mindset is something I disagree with and I am a firm believer that my opinion is correct. It's why I choose to keep arguing for the same things. You irritate me, along with several other people in this thread. But you provide the silly fodder and horribly bad ideals that make my rants possible, so for that, I thank you. And I fully understand that you likely think you are correct. (pro tip, you aren't.)



posted on Feb, 1 2018 @ 11:56 AM
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Illegal immigration simply doesn't matter to me. It has had no negative impact on life. They roof my house if it needs replacing. They pick the fruits and veggies I buy at reasonable prices. And if I need some work done around the yard, I can pick up a couple pretty much anywhere and they will get the job done for a reasonable price.

You ever had a roof replaced or some landscaping done? Hell, you ever bought a new home? Who do you think did/does that work? Did you go around verifying the legal status of each one that "looked illegal"? Bet you didn't. You benefited from them.



posted on Feb, 1 2018 @ 12:04 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: avgguy
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Or you know just going through naturalization legally where they already perform those tests.

Yeah, it's a shame that natural legalization is stupid expensive, takes many many years, requires access to traveling to and from your home country many times over the process, and CURRENTLY our government also wants to restrict legal immigration access to the country too. My Chinese buddy who has been trying to get a green card for the last decade and half has told me all the hang ups with that system. To be honest, it isn't surprising in the least that people skip it for how much bull# you have to go through.


So your answer is to just rubber-stamp everyone who wants in?

Tell you what, we'll let them in only if progressives proponents take their place in their country of origin to help turn those into utopias.

The hell? Immigration isn't a zero sum policy.


But we aren't talking about LEGAL immigration, are we? We're talking about a bunch of illegal aliens that the progressives want to bring in, skipping the line that LEGAL immigrants are standing in to follow the LAWS of the country they want to become a part of. So my compromise is to allow that only if the legal citizen proponents leave.

Illegal aliens != Legal immigrants. Once you get that straight in your head, you can stop ignoring me and maybe we can have an intelligent conversation. It feels like I'm doing all the work right now.



posted on Feb, 1 2018 @ 12:10 PM
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originally posted by: usernameconspiracy
Illegal immigration simply doesn't matter to me. It has had no negative impact on life. They roof my house if it needs replacing. They pick the fruits and veggies I buy at reasonable prices. And if I need some work done around the yard, I can pick up a couple pretty much anywhere and they will get the job done for a reasonable price.


So you prolong the problem, good for you.


You ever had a roof replaced or some landscaping done? Hell, you ever bought a new home? Who do you think did/does that work? Did you go around verifying the legal status of each one that "looked illegal"? Bet you didn't. You benefited from them.


Yes, I did. Yes, I do. I had to turn two contractors away, and I told them I would be reporting them to the Feds. I will not contribute to criminal behavior if I can help it.



posted on Feb, 1 2018 @ 12:13 PM
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originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: introvert

Here is what I have learned from this thread. Laws, (particularly immigration laws) are subjective to feelings.

If that is not correct, then explain why immigration laws should not be followed.


Laws have to be interpreted by people.

Exactly how and when the law is enforced is subject to individual judgement.

When a cop pulls you over for breaking the law of driving above the speed limit, he doesn't "have to" charge you for violating that law. He has the power to use his judgement and just give you a "warning" and let you off.

If he lets you off with just a warning, you could complain, and insist that he do his duty and charge you instead. It's your right to insist that the officer uphold the law and apply your own interpretation of the application of that law, then the officer will give you a ticket, to satisfy your "more strict" interpretation of the law.

I happen to know that this very thing happened to a government official who held a very high office. The officer was about to give him a ticket for a traffic violation, and when the driver handed over his ID, and the cop recognized he was this government official, the cop apologized and offered the warning instead, but the driver insisted that the cop write the ticket, because the cop only decided on the "warning" once he recognized who was driving, and not before. And the government official was concerned that it would "look bad" for him to get off with just a warning, just because of who he was, while the ordinary citizen's treatment would have been more severe in that same particular circumstance.

So, you can insist that the law be strictly applied to you, if you desire, since you too are part of the application and practice of the laws of the land.

Other people, are happy to have the "lenient application" from time to time, since there are so many laws, a break from the severity of it all is usually welcome.





edit on 1-2-2018 by AMPTAH because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2018 @ 12:13 PM
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Laws are laws and should be enforced, with that being said here's the issue I take with conservatives when it comes to the illegal immigrant issue:

They only appear to care about illegal immigration when the country of origin is south of the border.

Trump's last speech attempted to appeal to emotion by subtly equating all illegals with MS-XIII -

Why is it never directed towards the thousands of illegals from all over the world that overstay visas?

Why is it never directed towards the companies that actually give incentives for illegals to come here?

If you want to curb illegal immigration, takes steps to curb ALL of it, when you take intense issue with only illegal immigration from a certain location it makes you look like a bigot.



posted on Feb, 1 2018 @ 12:17 PM
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originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: network dude

how are the laws of immigration being overlooked by the left?


Obama had deported more illegals than any other republican president over the last few decades....that easy-to-find statistic is ignored by the right...maybe that's why "network dude" remains baffled....if facts don't fit a certain narrative, ignore them altogether, like trump does.



posted on Feb, 1 2018 @ 12:18 PM
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originally posted by: AScrubWhoDied
Laws are laws and should be enforced, with that being said here's the issue I take with conservatives when it comes to the illegal immigrant issue:

They only appear to care about illegal immigration when the country of origin is south of the border.


Then I can only assume you aren't paying attention, and listening to only one side of the debate.



posted on Feb, 1 2018 @ 12:20 PM
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originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: network dude

how are the laws of immigration being overlooked by the left?


Obama had deported more illegals than any other republican president over the last few decades....that easy-to-find statistic is ignored by the right...maybe that's why "network dude" remains baffled....if facts don't fit a certain narrative, ignore them altogether, like trump does.


No, the Obama Administration redefined what deportation meant to include turning people around at the border, as had been done previously but was never reported. T his massively inflated the deportation numbers and made them worthless all at the same time. The same person could be turned around multiple times in one day, each one was called a deportation.



posted on Feb, 1 2018 @ 01:04 PM
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a reply to: network dude
In answer to your post, it's quite simple (but gets complicated very quickly) Whatever the left says or does the right will oppose it. No matter whether it's for the good of the nation or not. They would see complete anarchy reign before they agree. You only have to look at the debacle of the shut down last week. Why did they do that because it did the nation no good? BECAUSE THEY CAN.
They would see the nation on its knees just so they can say "look what the others have done to us, it's all their fault".
You think that's childish and infantile, then just think again because that's just what they do.



posted on Feb, 1 2018 @ 01:22 PM
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a reply to: Teikiatsu

YOU may be talking about legal immigration, but I'm talking about immigration as a whole. Both legal and illegal. Furthermore I don't care what label you give these people, they are all human in my eyes deserving of uniform respect as any other human.



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