Immigration and the left.

I am continually baffled by the stance the left seems to have taken. I say "seems", as when I state that, I am told it's a strawman, yet none of the lefties will step up and explain their stance. All I know is it Trump is for it, they are against it. Even if "it" is a good thing.

So we have a problem. It's not a new problem, but it is a reality, and it's something that needs fixing. We have a country that is made up of mostly immigrants, save for a few folks who were here first, but we took all their stuff, shoved them into camps and gave them shiny beads. So immigration isn't a new things, here, but once we decided we need rules to govern the country with, we decided what "illegal" meant with regards to immigration.

So now we as a nation, have rules in place that govern how to enter the Country, how to become a citizen, and how to follow our laws and rules. We as citizens must follow our laws and rules, so it's not out of the question to ask people wishing to become Americans to do the same.

But with regard to the "illegal" part of immigration, there are people, families, children, sneaking over our borders and entering our nation without permission, and without following the laws and rules we have enacted by a democratic process. If we are going to take Murder seriously, take rape seriously, take theft seriously, then why would be not take immigration laws seriously? Is it because "muh feels"? Are you afraid of how it would look for others to see you want to follow the rules?

If the left, and the Trump haters in general, are willing to take the stance of ignoring the laws of immigration, why do we have those laws to begin with? Are those people not smart enough to realize that we also have a process to change laws, to remove laws, and to strengthen laws? If Immigration should be ignored, and 'let the chips fall where they may', then we need to change the laws to reflect that. But it most be done the right way, and it needs to be done at the will of "the people", and not just the ones who think they are more correct. (pro tip, everyone thinks they are more correct)

So please explain why you feel we should ignore the law on this topic. I would honestly like to know.

a reply to: network dude


Ummm..."enquiring minds...want to know"...

Somehow I think that these questions you ask...will forever remain unquantifiable...


That's my observation...and I'm sticking with it...






YouSir

originally posted by: YouSir
a reply to: network dude


Ummm..."enquiring minds...want to know"...

Somehow I think that these questions you ask...will forever remain unquantifiable...


That's my observation...and I'm sticking with it...

YouSir

you sir, may be entirely correct. time will tell.

a reply to: network dude

how are the laws of immigration being overlooked by the left?

a reply to: network dude

Uhm, You are going to try to rationalize with people that thought their best chance of winning the presidential election was to select someone under a criminal investigation , that had to cheat to win her own party, and thought the FBI stands for Federal Bureau of Inquiry?


Good luck with that.


However, to be honest the issue with immigration is the same issue with everything else in our country. The GOP,DNC, and the MSM have politicized immigration. Which has made their followers not think by themselves ,use common sense, or objectively look at the issue. In addition, the GOP,DNC, and the MSM have not been truthful in the whole immigration issue.

The immigration issue has been caused by both sides by distracting the people from the real issue and the truth of the matter when it comes to immigration.

Sometimes laws are wrong and should be corrected.

Source: Every law I have ever seen is updated/added to/removed/etc.
Want to see German penal law? Lots and lots of adaptions or corrections or addenda.

a reply to: network dude


They can't come out and openly say that they are for open borders, but they say it all the same.

Look how "nationalism", "USA chants", the flag, are now considered racist.

A nation cannot exist if it does not have borders. Yet there are those that would like to see the United States of America gone.

a reply to: ManFromEurope

OK, we get that, but as explained, there is a process for that -- a legal process. That process should be followed.

We do not get to just ignore the laws we don't like or think are wrong and follow the ones we do like or think are right. If everyone did that, then we might as well not have a country.

originally posted by: Yoga is also
Considered racist now too !!! White supremacy sport apparently .... According to the new study that just came
Out from University of Michigan ......

DBCowboy
a reply to: network dude


They can't come out and openly say that they are for open borders, but they say it all the same.

Look how "nationalism", "USA chants", the flag, are now considered racist.

A nation cannot exist if it does not have borders. Yet there are those that would like to see the United States of America gone.

Ever notice when the left talks about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION that the Illegal part gets left out.......every time. If I went into Mexico or Canada illegally, neither side is gonna welcome me with open arms and hugs. Neither side is gonna give a shat about my woes in America. Why in the hell are we different? Break the immigration laws here and you may get a free education and a house or you may get deported...no worries....just walk back across that sieve of a southern border. Way, way back in the early 80's we should have told the California fruit farmers to " pick your own damn fruit or pay a higher wage and we want need the "migrant workers"....well the migrant workers decided to stay & game the system. Got to hand it to them......it worked.

I want to know how the left justify illegal immigration all while saying they are for ploy of the black population.

a reply to: network dude

At it's core, I believe it's stems from a Nationalism versus Globalism mindset. With each of those ism's comes other fundamental thought patterns such as supporting the policies of Open Society Foundations dot org versus supporting the Constitution of the United States.

The Constitution is is nearly impossible to be bound-to if one believes it is inferior to the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

They clash - from a local level all the way through to a Federal level.

Trump is the embodiment of Nationalism.

originally posted by: openyourmind1262
Ever notice when the left talks about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION that the Illegal part gets left out.......every time. If I went into Mexico or Canada illegally, neither side is gonna welcome me with open arms and hugs. Neither side is gonna give a shat about my woes in America. Why in the hell are we different? Break the immigration laws here and you may get a free education and a house or you may get deported...no worries....just walk back across that sieve of a southern border.

To play devil's advocate, we aren't Mexico or Canada. We have our own culture and response to people coming to the USA. Our natural tendency towards charity and compassion sometimes blind us to our own laws. It feels cruel to bring the hammer of authority down on people who have been painted as victims.

The voices that want to be compassionate within the framework of our rules get drowned out by others with agendas, especially when the soundbites for those agendas have been poll-tested and scrubbed to generate emotions instead of reason.

a reply to: network dude

My wife, an actual non US citizen green card holding first generation immigrant is super pissed off by illegal immigration, and it causes real problems for her (us).

a reply to: Teikiatsu

Emotion not reason is a big reason we have so many problems.

Poster said it above.

The MSM is bastardizing the subject.
Always publishing articles about how some random person who lived in America for "39 years" with "4 kids and a family" is now being deported because of Trump. Ok, why haven't they filed for citizenship in all of those 39 years?

That is the entire problem.
If these people actually went through the process of becoming a citizen in the first place, you know...following the actual rules and laws of America...then these stories wouldn't exist.

But no.
They are politicized as some poor sap who is losing their family because they refused to spend any of those 39 years filing the correct paperwork to become a legal citizen. And the raging left eats it up with sympathy for the illegal immigrant and hatred for Trump.

Look, any rational human being that lives in another country for an extended period knows they have to assimilate at some point. This isn't a huge, complicated math problem. It's relatively easy to solve.

Until everyone in this country realizes this, there will always be an "illegal immigrant" issue.

It's really not complicated. Want to live here? Good. Sign the papers and pay your taxes like the rest of us. Then you can claim your benefits too.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

completely agree. As I said, we are a nation of immigrants, and the Statue of Liberty stands as a welcome for any and all who would like to come be a part of this great nation. But you won't find anything written on or about her that states the right way to enter is sneaking over the border or being smuggled in a truck. You have to do it the right way. I was told I don't understand this yesterday, and that baffled me even more. If this isn't the way things work, I need to know the "real" way, so I don't repeat my ignorance.

In my opinion ... The immigration laws are in place to vet the the people trying to come here and weed out the bad people ...of course , Not all illegals are bad .... But there ARE some really Bad ones sneaking across the border ...I bet the left , or anyone who wants all these illegals freely granted citizenship , wouldn't think Differently after they are attacked or have a loves one murdered by an illegal immigrant ...people change attitudes when the issue actually lands on their personal doorstep .....but ... The Real reason why Dems are pushing so hard for this ,was brought up in a post by another member a week ago .... ( I can't remember who,sorry ) ... It pointed out that the U.S. Census is coming back around soon. And Obama took off the last census the question " are you a U.S. Citizen " ... Thus allowing illegals to take the census ... This inflating numbers and allowing more funding and an extra congress seat to open up for California .... Trump will be putting the question back on the census , thus potentially scaring away illegals from partaking in the census . Thus lowering California's qty .... California democrats stand to lose a congress seat , and ALOT of money ...... So ultimately , the old saying " it's always about the money " stands true again..... It's not about the illegals and their well being .... The push is actually about billions of dollars and a congress seat .....by a reply to: network dude

originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: network dude

how are the laws of immigration being overlooked by the left?

Hi, and welcome to ATS! since you are really, really new here, I'll just ask that you read some threads and see the reactions of different people over some different topics and try to come up with an idea of what I might be implying on your own. Again, welcome.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: network dude

My wife, an actual non US citizen green card holding first generation immigrant is super pissed off by illegal immigration, and it causes real problems for her (us).

.

Im sorry your wife is having problems ...,And I hope it smooths out for Her . It's not fair she's doing the right thing, yet feeling the heat .