U.N. Report Advocates Abortion, Attacks Christians, page 4

Originally posted by mwm1331
Sminkey I am not saying the fetus should have more rights than a born child or a born adult human, I am saying it deserves the same rights.

- OK, but to be clear I don't see this as you saying a foetus should have 'more rights'.

I am simply saying that consideration of the rights of the born living must come long before those of the unborn.

How can you honeslty feel that a Mothers right not to be inconveninced is greater than the right of a fetus to live?

- You may feel inclined to describe utterly blighted lives as mere inconvenience mwm but I do not.

I do not see a sub 24wk foetus as 'a child''. A potential child yes, of course, but not actually a child.

Therefore halting that development and destroying that foetus - even though the proceedure may be surrounded with possible lifelong emotional issues for mother/those concerned - is nothing like equivelent to 'murder for convenience' etc etc to me.

Sorry but it just isn't.

All things considered I still say that abortion is the least worst outcome in some circumstances and should therefore be legal with some limitations applied........

.....although not those that actually have the practical effect of making it impossible to obtain (it looks as though some in the USA are so dishonest on the matter as to try and pull that little 'dodge').

Does it bother you at all that we value a womans social life more than a human?

- Actually mwm I am bothered so much more by the callous disregard we have about the living conditions and standards of most live human beings in the world, including very young born live children.

When a society spends more feeding it's pets than it does giving to the world's starving children there is something very wrong with it IMO.

For (so many of your/our) political parties/representitves to ignore that but spend vast amounts of passion, time and effort argueing for banning abortion seems to me to be somewhat incredible if not downright deeply suspect.

Your orginal argument was that a fetus is not developed enough to survive outside of the womb, but neither can an infant unless someone takes care of it.

- Oh come on, that is nothing like analogous. A sub-24wk old foetus cannot survive even mere moments alone.

Lock a newborn in a closet for a week and it dies. It to is "parasitic" in nature.

- Again this is a daft point IMO.

Lock anyone in a closet without water for much more than a week and we all can die, we are all parasitic in that manner.

What is that supposed to prove?

However long before a fetus is legally protected it has all organs and systems assoiciated with a fully developed human.
It has reflex responses as well as a demonstrable abillity to ineract with its environment.

- Ok fair enough but these are all potentials, to try and claim this means we are talking about a conscious person - whos rights should come before the born conscious living - is IMO absurd.

The human bran after birth is still devolping, it does not fully develop untill 16 or so.
physically the human body does not finish developing untill after puberty.

Yet no one would argue abortion should be legal untill the 868th week

- This is silly. Of course the brain and body continue to develop, and what?
The state of (un)development of the foetus at less than 24wks is so early that you cannot possibly equate it with a live conscious person.

You seem to place so much emphasis on the fact that the fetus is still developing yet disregard the fact that it will continue to do so untill about 15-16.

- That is because the development before birth is so enormous behind what will come later.

The fact is I was able to proive that between the 8th and 13th week when most aboertions are performed a fetus s nearly complete.
Up to and including all organs and systems.
In other words it is a complete human by that point.
Not partial, complete.
That is what is being killed a complete human being.
anything else is semantics.

- Sorry mwm I do not think you 'proved' anything of the sort.

Like I said, an outline and the earliest stages of physical development are nothing like the same as a conscious developed human being.
It is far from 'complete'.
(On can only claim it 'complete' if you utterly ignore the importance of gestational development.
I do not do that.)

To claim otherwise is IMO mere semantics.......

......or an almost religious-like belief.
You are entitled to your opinions of course, if you ever get a majority of opinion you might even be able to force your beliefs on many others but for the moment I and those like me are the majority (and we will not be forcing you to do anything).

If you don't feel abortion is right for you great don't have one, for those that do the possibility is there.