Why does it cost $32,093 just to give birth in America?

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: Edumakated

Do you have a source for the malpractice insurance costs that Dr's pay? And is this a driving force in health care costs soaring?

I would think that the E-rooms (still) being used as general practitioners for the uninsured or insured poor who can't afford copays-out of pockets-out of networks-pharma bills i s a much bigger push for costs going up.

Pharma costs are also a HUGE cause of upward pressure on health care insurance.

And of course the monopolistic tendency of our medical system is a reason for the costs the US citizen pays. The US pays better than 2X the costs as the next nearest industrialized country with little to show in better health outcomes or quality.

Just google it... here is a huffpo article. Obgyn malpractice insurance can run up to $200k a year. They are the most sued doctors.

How Obgyn's fear of malpractice can affect healthcare

In a survey of 5,644 OB/GYNs conducted by the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG), the largest professional organization of OB/GYNs in the United States, 8 percent had stopped practicing obstetrics in the past three years because of litigation fears, high insurance premiums, or insurance unavailability. Though premium costs vary by region based on state laws and litigation risk, they can be as much as $200,000 a year.

a reply to: Edumakated

can be as much as 200,000K?

Do you think that cost is out of line?

Wonder what that would out to be per patient?



.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: Edumakated

can be as much as 200,000K?

Do you think that cost is out of line?

Wonder what that world out to be per patient?

Sounds about right considering frequency of lawsuits and high payouts. If a Doctor does 100 births a year, then you are looking at a cost of basically $2000 per birth just for insurance.

The bottom line though is that it is expensive...

a reply to: Edumakated

Wonder how or why the dr.s are found to be liable? Is it the settlement out of court to not admit guilt or is it actual court/jury decisions?

Many states have tort reform with very low payouts and a very short window to establish a lawsuit.

And the cost would be cast over a wider field than just births right? They do more than just physically deliver babies, I mean they see women for other thing too prenatal and other women things, right? (I really don't know)

originally posted by: Atsbhct
a reply to: Bluntone22

But people in Denmark genuinely enjoy their way of life. It's truly one of the happiest places on Earth.

I wasn't questioning their way of life.
I was only pointing out that their system is paid for by extremely high tax rates.
The OP is about paying for medical care such as childbirth.
In America the parents cover the cost at the time of birth.
In Denmark they pay for it their entire working lives.
Either way you pay and it's not free.

I made no judgement on which system is better.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: Edumakated

Do you have a source for the malpractice insurance costs that Dr's pay? And is this a driving force in health care costs soaring?

I would think that the E-rooms (still) being used as general practitioners for the uninsured or insured poor who can't afford copays-out of pockets-out of networks-pharma bills i s a much bigger push for costs going up.

Pharma costs are also a HUGE cause of upward pressure on health care insurance.


And of course the monopolistic tendency of our medical system is a reason for the costs the US citizen pays. The US pays better than 2X the costs as the next nearest industrialized country with little to show in better health outcomes or quality.

Just google it... here is a huffpo article. Obgyn malpractice insurance can run up to $200k a year. They are the most sued doctors.

How Obgyn's fear of malpractice can affect healthcare

In a survey of 5,644 OB/GYNs conducted by the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG), the largest professional organization of OB/GYNs in the United States, 8 percent had stopped practicing obstetrics in the past three years because of litigation fears, high insurance premiums, or insurance unavailability. Though premium costs vary by region based on state laws and litigation risk, they can be as much as $200,000 a year.

This is what I was going to say, malpractice insurance is crazy for them. I love my obgyn, we talk a lot about the industry. She is part of a group practice that has a very large percentage of Medicaid recipients. She is so frustrated with the fact that so many of them won't go to the dr. early on in their pregnancy for baby wellness checks, a lot of problems can be avoided early on in pregnancy with the proper care, and indeed those problems are quite costly later on...

When the babies are born with problems, a lot of them blame the doctors, so go figure. She would like to go into a concierge practice, she is very weary of all the problems with the insurance BS. Lots of horror stories.

Blimey that appears to be expensive.
Tell you what I will deliver any baby for the low low price of 9999.99 bucks.
Can't be that hard idiots have been doing it since time began.

I'd love to hear what people on ATS paid to have their children.

My first child was in 2007 and was around $900. My second child was in 2009 and was $150 (copay only).

If you live in a country that provides state healthcare feel free to say zero, but in reality the cost is your taxes every year. That's like me in the USA saying I've never had to pay for our armed forces protections. They never bill me, they just protect us when we need it. No out of pocket cost.

You certainly don't need to be a doctor or even need one to deliver a baby. My father was a cop and he delivered a baby in the back seat of a car.

The issue is if something goes wrong or doesn't go that smoothly. There used to be a lot of babies and mothers dying back in the day. Not so much these days.

There is a good chance my daughter wouldn't have made it through a natural child birth.

Obviously because parents without a mere 30k won't be able to actually raise and care for a child. Children cost hundreds of thousands of dollars from -9 months to 18 years (per child). Starting at pre-natal care, to the delivery to everything that comes after (when it *really* gets expensive)

If two prospective parents don't have 30k between the two of them, they need to reconsider progeny.

a reply to: Edumakated


Agreed. If snowflakes stopped assuming they needed hospitals and college educated windbags for every little scrape and cut they'd save a lot of money.

There are times you need ivy league medical doctors, and other times when the body should be left alone to do what it naturally does. Child rearing is about as natural as it gets, IMO.

That said, Mrs. Burns and I went the hospital route. We waited til much later than most however, so the "natural birth" option may have been dangerous (though there was not any complications)

On the first page we have people blaming illegals and refugees for healthcare costs. Amazing.

we have those immigrants and refugees and those have NO insurances

The title 19 program. Let's welfare recipients and illegal aliens pay virtually nothing, which raises the price for everyone else.

Illegal immigrants not US health care burden-study

originally posted by: Southern Guardian
Well cause' the freemarket and the invisible hand God dang!

1.) If a firefighter comes to your house, and puts out a fire, and charges you so much money that you go bankrupt or cannot afford to pay. That's an absurdity.

2.) If a police officer stops a burglary at your home, and charges you so much money that you go bankrup or cannot afford to pay. That's an absurdity.

3.) If you get cancer and the doctor charges you so much money that you go bankrupt, or cannot afford to pay. That's an absurdity.

If you or your wife gives birth and get charged thousands of dollars by your local hospital, that's an absurdity.


This is how the average European or people from other civilized nations view these things, because these things are viewed as basic human rights.
Except the US of course (in regards to 3), whose citizens seem to give reasons like "Freedom of market" or "socialism" or "high taxes". When in reality they are paying more and getting ripped off overall.

Tort reform. Allowing Doctors to form co-ops. Insurance for health care has been a big boon for the middle man that has little to do with your actual health.

Socialism is not the answer. Socialism (more government control and meddling) has been one of the factors of the increase due to HMO's and pre-planned pricing quota's.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

Your answer is very simple: The American Healthcare system is FOR PROFIT not FOR HEALTH.

Yes this is coming from someone who lives in the UK and knows a few family members and two native Americans who now live part time in the UK (free healthcare - There reasoning) who all say that the healthcare system in the States is messed up and I have to agree. The idea of having an insurance based system is fine, that I'm fine with it's that at any time your insurance plan can be changed (it has happened to an Aunt who lives in the states on low income and paying on a monthly plan and when she needed a major operation she was told the insurance covered only a quarter of the cost so she came back to the UK).

There are faults with our system over here mainly under funding and the NHS often being used as the ping pong ball to try and win votes then not funding it properly but at least over here through taxes the system is paid for and is what people will call free at the point of use. I could honestly never imagine having to pay as much as you Yanks do for healthcare, I've seen and read enough to show it's a bad system when people have to sell everything they own in most cases even some losing their house for a minor operation shakes me to my core and I truly feel bad for them.

The worst part in all of this is that America has some of the greatest God given rights - You have the right to guns but not the right to healthcare that doesn't cost you an arm and a leg. An ideal way would be something that I keep trying to push over here, a single tax that EVERYONE pays that covers healthcare for ALL no matter your standing in life (rich or poor) over here I've been calling it the NHS tax, it would take one pound per week from all and would go into a single funding bank that would be spent on the NHS (although politicians would no doubt start digging into it).

Americans has been dealing with propaganda for so long that the idea another way of healthcare is possible just doesn't compute for them.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Edumakated


Agreed. If snowflakes stopped assuming they needed hospitals and college educated windbags for every little scrape and cut they'd save a lot of money.

There are times you need ivy league medical doctors, and other times when the body should be left alone to do what it naturally does. Child rearing is about as natural as it gets, IMO.

That said, Mrs. Burns and I went the hospital route. We waited til much later than most however, so the "natural birth" option may have been dangerous (though there was not any complications)

Is there a source for that? Is it the scrapes that are driving up costs?

I am under the assumption it is the pharma that is a big part of the cost. When you see a commercial on TV for an new butt cream go to GoodRX.com and look up the price. You will not find a product for under $400. a month. The US and Ireland are the only countries in the world to allow pharma to adverise on TV. Wonder why?

Couple pharma costs with the E-room being used as a GP Dr because of the poor having insurance but no money for co-pays and the many many other costs. Boom you get the goat screw the US has.

originally posted by: Fools
Tort reform. Allowing Doctors to form co-ops. Insurance for health care has been a big boon for the middle man that has little to do with your actual health.

Socialism is not the answer. Socialism (more government control and meddling) has been one of the factors of the increase due to HMO's and pre-planned pricing quota's.

Tort reform subsidizes the medical industry with taxpayer money if the injured person is disabled due to the Dr. caused injury. After a injured person burns through the award that is greatly reduced because of tort reform, they go on disability and the tax payer pays for everything.

Privatized healthcare insurance is a "voluntary" privatized socialism for profit hybrid. But with real single payer systems the cost are controlled. In the US there is no restraints on the for profit system.


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a reply to: Edumakated

First those dang illegals and refugees and now the poor medical industry and their malpractice costs!

Figures 1 & 2 show that there were just over 15,000 paid malpractice claims against MDs and DOs in 2003. By 2014 that number had dropped by more than 40% to less than 8,900 paid claims. The total amount spent on those claims has also dropped by about 27%.

health care costs in the US have risen considerably since 2003 in spite of the drop in medical malpractice costs. That would appear to deflate one of the main arguments that’s been used against medical malpractice: That it’s a major factor in why health care costs so much in the US.

Medical Malpractice: Myths and Realities

Why do you continue making excuses for the country being ripped off? What's the motive? Politics?

It SUCKS..all of it..Medical cost are OUT OF CONTROL! I have 3 girls in the past 10 years..it cost 12K-35K to give birth to each. Luckily we have FEP Blue. My youngest had a ear infection yesterday. I took her to her reg doctor and she prescribed CIPRO drops..now this bottle is LITERALLY the size of a quarter..it cost 273.00 at CVS..are copay was 50 bucks..better than the almost 300..but still? On line 12 of our income our health insurance cost us 17,000.00USD last year. We went to doctor 2 times....TWO TIMES..nothing catastrophic..just run of the mill stuff..we should get a little refund considering we barely touched the money we put in! It burns my as$ to know there are free riders out there.

Also, there is malpractice insurance that cover doctors and hospitals, medical institutes. Costs range around $5K a year. Less than what many families pay in health insurance a year.

The Malpractice excuse is a load of hogwash. It doesn't stand to the facts. It's also an excuse for more government protections for medical practices not to be held accountable when they mess up. It's a tactic to give the medical industry more protections along with more tax cuts and less regulations, all to the cost of the average american.

It's b#$%sh!t.