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The State of the Union thread.

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posted on Feb, 2 2018 @ 09:11 AM
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a reply to: [post=23106748

Oh it was the government’s fault you lived in poverty I thought only welfare democrats felt that way.




posted on Feb, 2 2018 @ 09:30 AM
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a reply to: MOMof3

It was Obama's policies that created an atmosphere that was toxic to business and drove the jobs to other countries.

It was Obamacare that made the few jobs here not want to hire me because my age increased their premiums... leaving me without any hope of having insurance.

It was the DNC that kept perpetuating the myth that Southerners are racist, white guys are racist, straight people are homophobes, all men are sexist... and I fell into every category. Who wants to hire such a deplorable?

You gave Trump credit for the present economy... I give Obama credit for the previous 8 years.

TheRedneck



posted on Feb, 2 2018 @ 09:48 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

So what’s going on with stock marke today? All those retirements you know. I hear rumors they are scared. What of? Yes, we are all in the hands of trump and republicans now.

Obamacare worked for two of my kids who live in Washington state. IMO, if too many people start dying young, maybe some lawmakers will care enough to fix the system. Universal my preference.

I was born and raised in Mississippi. Let’s just skip the racism talk.
People don’t have manners anymore. So many times people on ats assumed I was welfare mom of 3 because I’m a democrat. Can’t be thin skinned nowadays.



posted on Feb, 2 2018 @ 10:02 AM
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a reply to: MOMof3


So what’s going on with stock marke today? All those retirements you know. I hear rumors they are scared.

All I hear is how happy people are that they're not losing money hand over fist in their retirement. I don't know what you're hearing.


I was born and raised in Mississippi. Let’s just skip the racism talk.

Sure, let's just ignore the insults now that the other side is in power.... NOT.

Sorry, life don't work that way. If I rob a bank, you think the cops will come along a few years later and say "let's just forget about it"? The DNC made their beds, and as far as I'm concerned they can stay in it forever.

TheRedneck



posted on Feb, 2 2018 @ 04:01 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

First of all I am not calling for the impeachment of a sitting president for giving a bipartisan speech. I think that there needs to be evidence of an actual crime, and not just for getting oral sex in the oval office.

This speech, this bipartisan speech that the President gave, what I am saying is the kind of speech he needed to give from day one, to show that there needs to be more reaching across the isle to get and keep the government running. And I feel it is too late for this kind of speech, when it could have been done earlier.

In 2013, where the Republicans right and as popular when they shut down the government then that lasted for far more than this one that just past in January? Or that like many will tell you, the wall is not going to work, cause it is going to cause far more problems than it is worth, nor is Mexico going to pay for it, and ultimately it is only going to be a great waste of money that could have been better spent elsewhere. And that soldier that was called out, while others were applauding him, yet the hurt that was there on that soldiers face, the pain of having to recall his actions on a very, very bad day for him. Is that any good for that soldier? And the North Korean defector, who lost his legs to torture, was that the fault of the USA, or was it from another country, who is thousands of miles away who the leader of that country keeps baiting and the President keeps picking up and starting a contest with?

MS13, funny that was mentioned, but no one, apart from most law enforcement, fails to understand why it came into being, and yet that was a product of the USA. When Ronald Reagan was president, there were a lot of civil wars happening in Latin America. Refugees from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Nicaraguan fled to the north. They were settled in various areas, and in particular the west coast. The policies that allowed for them in, did not set up the kind of help they needed, so we ended up with young children who had already seen violence and were no longer affected by such, and thus started the MS13. We ship them back to El Salvador, where they were further able to learn about how to use and get ahold of military equipment, then proceed to come back, better trained and that caused the start of the MS13 gang, especially when the Mexican Cartels got involved with them, and thus that problem was started.

That tax cut, is only temporary, it will help this year, course now the USA is hitting its deficit limit earlier and care to guess what taxes are going to do when the plans start? When did the Republicans decide to spend more, used to be they wanted to squeeze very penny they could, the National Debt was the cry, and now, it is who cares? Talk about flip flop on that issue.

Oh yes, lets get the USA in another armed conflict in the middle east, not like the USA is not already involved in other parts of the world. Syria is going to be a long drawn out process, more people are going to be sent over, and more Vets coming back to a system that is ill prepared to deal with this. Don’t you care for the military vets? The system has not been changed, it still is getting worse as the number of vets who are suffering from physical and mental health issues increase.

And rescinding regulations? Don’t you think that there are reasons for those regulations being there in the first place? Will it take a city to end up like say Beijing or New Delhi, to show why those are in place in the first place? Or will it take a river to catch fire again?

The man is wanting a 1 trillion dollar infrastructure plan. Who is going to pay for that, where is the money going to come from? How will we pay for all of the infrastructure that is desperately needed in this country? There is no talk about where that is going to come from, nor how it will be done. If it is done as I suspect, are you prepared to pay for say driving on a road, via tolls or pay more for electric or water?

Well that is good that Apple is bringing back all of that money, I am sure those employees it fired right before Christmas would have considered even been willing to relocate for those jobs.

If the speech was only 2 paragraphs long, why did it take 80 minutes to give?

I know that most bills are multiple pages long, however, if one is going to give a speech promising big things, for 80 minutes and being 2 paragraphs long, perhaps a bit of detail would not be too much to ask for or expect.



posted on Feb, 2 2018 @ 04:17 PM
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a reply to: diggindirt
I am so glad that you think getting rid of Obamacare is such a good idea. I am also happy that you don’t have a preexisting condition that made getting health insurance difficult if not impossible. And that with getting rid of the ACA, it also takes all of the rules along with it. Funny how in their zeal to get rid of the ACA, they have yet to put in a replacement to prevent people from either losing their insurance, or from losing their healthcare at a critical moment, like say a child with cancer needing chemo, and whose parents could not afford the thousands of dollars for such, or the elderly who needed medical assistance, being left out in the cold.

We may learn from it, but the politicians don’t and often we see the same bubbles happening time and time again, sometimes one right after the other. The Savings and Loan bubble ring any bells, where there was no regulations, then the S&L bubble burst, we got on the hook for the bill, regulations were put into place, and then they fight to remove such regulations, only to create another bubble that will cause such. Was the too big to fail not a big enough message for anyone?

So why is was the Goldman Sachs employees during Obama, any different from the Goldman Sachs employees that Trump has hired?

How about you allow me the same rights as yourself? If I want to jeer and criticize the President, then you should be more than willing to accept and protect such, and not just claim it as a right for only what is popular. Or don’t you believe in those same rights for all others? Criticizing the President, to offer a voice of caution is as American as say joining the military and serving for 4 years, or working hard, or even looking and thinking and offering a voice of dissention. Many a great leaders in the past, those who worked hard to make a difference, since the dawn of the 20th century would do such.

I did listen to what the man said, and can tell you that we have seen some of this before. The wall, that is nothing new, before it was lets build a fence and that would stem the tide, it died due to a lack of funding by the congress. Jobs, yet no plans are put out or concrete. I find it funny that this year the same party who was the Party of No, of being fiscally conservative, has turned around and become the party of spend, spend, spend, all in a matter of 4 short years. That a party who would demand the removal of a president for having oral sex in the oval office, is now giving free passes to a man who has had numerous affairs. See the problem? The parties flip flop, it is no longer about the country, about the people, but about the personality.



posted on Feb, 2 2018 @ 04:25 PM
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a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus
Yes Obama and his mighty pen. However, under Obama, there was no question of inclusion of the other party when it came to decisions. And funny how we tend to forget how some members of congress deliberately did not want to allow Obama to fulfill his duties under the Constitution of the USA, or who decided to try to undermine negotiations that they did not like. And as I recalled, the congress gridlocked to the point where the President did. But funny how many people harped on the number of Executive orders that Obama signed, yet tend to give Trump a pass on all of the ones he signed. Obama signed an average of 34 a year, and Trump with the first year signed 57. But there is no foul cry on such. Why is that?

What is sad, is that here is how this works in DC, and in some states: The majority one day will open a door that was never opened, to get something done. Then the other side will get into power, and exploit it and does the exact same thing. Then there is cries of foul and how dare they. And it keeps escalating time and time again, where many of the time honored agreements and traditions are either discarded or tossed out. It was wrong the first time and still remains wrong.



posted on Feb, 2 2018 @ 10:09 PM
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a reply to: sdcigarpig

You bet I think getting rid of a law that forces me to pay a fine if I make the decision NOT TO PAY a corporation several thousand dollars a year for services I do not require. I don't want that happening to any citizen. I've paid for my health care and I've paid my FINE to the IRS each year. I've caused no harm to others by actions to keep my health care between me and my medical professionals. I am not causing anyone to be denied treatment of any kind. For those who are suffering, there are over 10,000 charitable organizations in this country dedicated to better health care, cancer, diabetes....basically every disease known to medical science. I'm sorry that people fail to get health care. I help those people when I see the opportunity. That's why a small group of people involved in health care here in our county got together and started a free clinic for people who fall through the cracks. We raised the money to set it up, recruited volunteers to staff it and started a business to boost financial support. If people in your community aren't getting adequate health care, I suggest you not leave it up to politicians to take care of them. Get out there and round up some like-minded people and work to solve the problem issues.

You seem to still be under the impression that I am partisan. I didn't like what happened under Obama. I didn't like what happened under Bush. I didn't like what happened under Clinton. I hate it when politicians of any stripe hold themselves above their employers. See my signature. I've been using it since I left the Democrat party nearly three decades ago.

Hold your hat! Nobody is suggesting taking away your rights. You are delusional. Constantly refuting these talking points has become abysmally boring. Have a good evening.



posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 01:23 AM
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a reply to: diggindirt

Those charitable organizations are of no use without a doctor doing the examination of the person in the first place. And free clinics have a limited resources that can quickly become over come. In some states, hospitals are closing down due to a lack of funding, which ironically the law that would have kept it open, people are wanting to get rid of the ACA. And we should hope to high heaven that there is no outbreak of a deadly disease in the USA in the mean time. After all what is the worse that can happen? When you have a deadly disease out break in a large city, people start to panic and hospitals start to feel the stress an strain from people who are terrified. What would be the reaction if the local medical center was shut down due to a lack of funding?



posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 06:52 AM
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posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 07:10 PM
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a reply to: sdcigarpig


First of all I am not calling for the impeachment of a sitting president for giving a bipartisan speech.

That would be Maxine Waters.


I feel it is too late for this kind of speech, when it could have been done earlier.

So you wanted a partisan speech this time? Can we get a calendar so we'll know what you expect this month?


And that soldier that was called out, while others were applauding him, yet the hurt that was there on that soldiers face, the pain of having to recall his actions on a very, very bad day for him.

Maybe the additional pain of knowing that half of his government doesn't give two shakes of a rat's rear end about him or his buddy helped with the pain?


And the North Korean defector, who lost his legs to torture, was that the fault of the USA, or was it from another country

How does that diminish his spirit or his courage?


MS13, funny that was mentioned, but no one, apart from most law enforcement, fails to understand why it came into being

Does any of what you wrote, even if true, mean those two girls should have died at the hands of MS-13? Does it excuse them murdering citizens? Do you think we should ignore them and let them continue to kill?


That tax cut, is only temporary, it will help this year

So has every individual tax rate that has been passed in memory. It's also for more than a year, but even if it was for only a year, why do you think people should not get that years' worth of tax cuts? Try reading the bill and realizing what it says.


Oh yes, lets get the USA in another armed conflict in the middle east

I'm sure you'd prefer to just wait under a school desk for when they start tossing bombs at us. Here's a tip: contrary to what was apparently believed in the 1970s, school desks are not efficient radiation shields.

Besides, I don't recall Trump having anything to do with starting our ME involvement... that was Bush Jr. I also don't recall Trump being President when we tried to just walk out on a pre-announced date and got shot in the back with a bullet named ISIS. That was Obama.

I think at this point winning is our best option. We tried losing for 12 years.


Don’t you think that there are reasons for those regulations being there in the first place?

Oh, I'm sure there are reasons. Like government income... keeping small businesses from competing with corporate giants... making lawyers money...

The scary part of this is, you don't even know which regulations we are talking about!


The man is wanting a 1 trillion dollar infrastructure plan. Who is going to pay for that, where is the money going to come from?

It's called 'growing the economy.' I'm sure you've never heard of it, since it's been so long since we had a President willing to try it.


Well that is good that Apple is bringing back all of that money

Eureka! You got one right!


If the speech was only 2 paragraphs long

And then you blew it.

You know good and well what I was talking about. The part of the speech relating to a single issue would be a couple paragraphs long, and completely insufficient to hold the details you demand. This is intellectual dishonesty, and to be honest, I have better things to do that try to debate with someone who can't even comprehend a sentence.

Have a nice day.

TheRedneck



posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 07:45 PM
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a reply to: sdcigarpig

Horseshoes and Hand Grenades is a terrible way to run a healthcare system. ACA was a turd. "They" had the chance to get it right, and chose ACA instead. WHich is unsurprising, as most admitted openly that they didn't read it and had no idea what was in it.

Being someone who is responsible for the finances and HR efforts for a company (or a few companies), I can attest to the fact that no one had any idea how any of it would work. The entire thing was a work in progress for years, with various extensions applied to elements of the plan that, without extensions for funding, would collapse the entire thing. So when we tried to plan for implentation, we were told constantly to wait for clarification from the IRS, or other agencies. No one had a freaking clue what to do with this enormous law that was not even read before being passed.

It was Obama lobbing horseshoes and hand grenades at our healthcare, hoping to get close enough. That must be the "hope" that he kept talking about...it was his hope that his actions wouldn't be so damned damaging to the already dying middle class.



posted on Feb, 3 2018 @ 07:47 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I should add: the added costs of paying consultants to help guide us through ACA law during 2013-2017 cost me at least one performance bonus, as it dropped NOI below budget.

It cost me more than just premiums, service, and deductible. It cost me earnings, too.



posted on Feb, 4 2018 @ 02:59 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

When Reagan was president, he got experts in the middle east together, all of them who studied and understood Islam and the various regions. And the concensus was that an armed conflict will not stop any of this, it will only make it worse.

And those regulations that I am talking about is the deregulation of the environmental laws and rules, and the banking regulations that were put into place after the worst possible things could happen. The environmental regulations actually do slow business down, but with good reason, to protect the environment and by default the people living in those areas. And the banking regulations, are there to try to stop things like bubbles, yet they seem hell bent on removing them, claiming that they constrain businesses, yet when it goes badly, who pays for it?

That is not growing the economy, that is much needed repair that the country needs, however you did not answer who is going to foot the bill for that and how do you think that they are going to raise the money on such? That is right it will fall onto the backs of the middle and lower class people to foot the bill by paying more taxes. I am sure that when your tax bill comes and you see it raise up, as state and federal government will have to, you will be happy about it? I won’t nor will many people I know. Every president has tried to do an infrastructure project, yet it fails cause no one wants to be the one to have their name on the tax increase.

Well at least I am well read and informed about the issues and the cause of such. But bless your heart, at least you try.



posted on Feb, 4 2018 @ 03:11 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

But at the same time don't you think it was irresponsible for causing it to be collapsed was also the wrong thing? 2 wrongs do not make a right. Yes I agree the ACA was a bad law, I read it, and did not agree with what all was in it, however, it was better than nothing for many people out there. And I will admit the mandate was a terrible idea.

But short of a single payer system, where everyone has insurance, collapsing the only law that gave people an option is still a very bad idea, and unfortunately the Republicans were hell bent on removing it. They were not interested in replacing it, nor have they shown any sort of interest in moving that way. So now the inevitable is going to happen. The question is how long till the other shoe drops and people feel the effects of not having that safety net in place where it goes back to where people are with out health insurance, and ER's become over crowded by those who can not afford such? How long till those with treatable diseases, that can be managed are left without to die for the lack of a pill or shot that could have made it easier for them to go to work or even survive? How long till the next epidemic hits the country, and a population is in terror of their own neighbor?



posted on Feb, 4 2018 @ 04:10 PM
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a reply to: sdcigarpig

If you have to choose to hurt one group or another id say following the constitution is the proper way to go. If you have a complaint it should be qith the people who passed the crap to begin with, and the people who failed to fix it. None of those are Trump.

But dont act like the screaming middle class doesnt matter cuz poor people. If you have to screw someone to help someone, its unjust.



posted on Feb, 4 2018 @ 07:59 PM
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a reply to: sdcigarpig


When Reagan was president, he got experts in the middle east together, all of them who studied and understood Islam and the various regions. And the concensus was that an armed conflict will not stop any of this, it will only make it worse.

And the reality is that, 30+ years later, avoiding conflict has made it worse. Consensus is an agreement, not a guaranteed solution.

We should have left the ME alone... but we didn't. Now we want everyone to smile and shake hands and forget how we and a few other other developed countries raped the ME. Not gonna work. The only thing that will work is to enforce some type of order until the countries can re-establish their social order in that area. If we don't, things will just continue to get worse.

Oh, yeah, and once that does happen, we need to stay out of everyone else's business.


And those regulations that I am talking about is the deregulation of the environmental laws and rules, and the banking regulations that were put into place after the worst possible things could happen.

The best thing that could happen to the environment, at least according to the 'experts,' is for us to cease to exist. I don't personally consider that a viable solution either.

We can find a happy medium between optimal environmental standards and optimal business interests. It's not an either-or solution; it is a weighting issue. Sure, charging companies a million bucks to conduct an "environmental impact study" before they even find out if they can build is great protection for the environment, but it is absolutely suicide for the economy. Allowing unrestrained pollution is optimal for business, but a death knell for the environment. In between, we can argue what the balance should be, but to just blanketly say all environmental regulations are sacred and business can go suck it, that's not a reasonable position any more than saying all business is sacred and the environment can go suck it.

Banking is the same way. Balance is the key. Fanaticism is a live welding rod in the lock mechanism.


That is not growing the economy, that is much needed repair that the country needs, however you did not answer who is going to foot the bill for that and how do you think that they are going to raise the money on such?

Excuse me, but infrastructure repair does grow the economy. People do the work to repair infrastructure, and a large chunk of that money you are so worried about goes to paychecks. Paychecks get spent on things. People are needed to make, market, and sell things, and they get a paycheck for it, which goes to buy more things. Wash, rinse, repeat.

All that means a higher GDP, which means more taxes collected.


Well at least I am well read and informed about the issues and the cause of such.

You may be well-read, but it is obvious you are not well-informed. I suggest you try reading things that disagree with your inner beliefs... you might learn something.

TheRedneck



posted on Feb, 4 2018 @ 11:40 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Why yes non of those people are Trump, however Trump is creating far too many problems with his rhetoric, that if implemented, would be a violation of the Constitution.

If the lawmakers really were looking to the constitution as a proper way to go, then many of the state and federal laws would not have been passed, and no one would consider it. But if you want to get it where it causes a big mess, then one would say pit a right against another right.



posted on Feb, 5 2018 @ 12:13 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck
Actually the consensus is still valid today as it was 30 years ago. The USA is way too involved around the world as it is, and nation building has never been the USA’s forte anyways, we tend to botch it up.

It is bad policy to ignore the environment. Ever see a child have breathing problems cause the air was polluted by the effects of a local business? Or see a water source that was so toxic, getting wet from the water would require at least 24 shots just to inoculate against what all was in it? Have you ever seen some of the pictures of say LA or New York before the air standards were put into effect? Ever been out to say the Painted Dessert in Arizona, with in the span of 30 years, and notice the changes of air quality? Or what will the country do, when another major city has to evacuate cause the area just became unlivable due to a lack of environmental protection?

Water that is contaminated from fracking, with chemicals and that can be lit on fire. The Flint Michigan disaster is another good example, where the water was contaminated, that ate through the linings of the pipes that then gave lead poisoning to the entire town. Or how about Bridgeton, Mo? If you are not sure about that, here is the story, radioactive materials, going back to the Manhatten project is placed there, in a landfill, with another landfill close by with an underground fire. There is run off from the waste that contaminated the water supply, causing a lot of people with health problems to happen. If that fire, that is ever creeping closer to the radioactive waste, when it gets there, the area will become unlivable, and toxic. Still think the restrictions are such a bad idea?

Infrastructure projects do grow the economy, however where is the money going to come from. One can not just simply start that without a money to get the material, and to pay the workers, or even to get this started? It has to come from the taxes, that people who are on a tight income are not going to want to spend to help get it off the ground. Or it gets privatized, and thus now people are having to pay extra for water, and electrical, or to drive over the road. So that trip that used to cost nothing could now cost 2 dollars each time going down a road, or an increase in utilities, to cover the cost of the new infrastructure.

Well bless your heart, for thinking that I may learn something, perhaps you could, like me, experience much of it, and learn something as well.

Seeing stuff first hand, and experiencing it, is a bit of an eye opener, especially for the environmental controls, and the infrastructure improvements.



posted on Feb, 5 2018 @ 01:43 AM
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a reply to: sdcigarpig


Actually the consensus is still valid today as it was 30 years ago.

Agreed. It is still a failed policy. That has not changed in 30 years.


The USA is way too involved around the world as it is, and nation building has never been the USA’s forte anyways, we tend to botch it up.

I have no disagreement with that statement. I said the same thing in my post.

However, the only thing worse than making a mess is making a mess and leaving it without even trying to clean it up. We're in large part responsible for the turmoil in the ME, and it is our responsibility to at least try to clean it up.


It is bad policy to ignore the environment.

Of course it is! But it is also bad policy to ignore the economy.

I know about the conditions that once existed in New York and LA. They had little choice but to put air standards into effect due to the high population density. However, in the process, they gave up large manufacturing bases. Those manufacturers did not cease to exist; they moved out of the dense population centers. The pollution is largely still being produced, but in areas where not as many people are affected by it and where nature can clean it.

That's what nature does, you know. The next time you are sitting on a white sand beach, thinking how magnificent and clean it is, understand that the beach is nature's septic tank. That sand is the result of a churning mass of ionic cleansing agents that reduce pollutants in the ocean into the place we go on vacation.

At best, we can minimize our impact and dilute pollution so it can naturally be neutralized. To even think we have more power than that is absurd.


Water that is contaminated from fracking

I am no fan of fracking. There are better, easier, cleaner, and safer ways to get the oil we need at this time. Alaska is full of it, and it can be removed using more conventional methods that do not have such serious consequences. Well, we can now, since the regulations that prohibited such have been removed.


The Flint Michigan disaster is another good example, where the water was contaminated, that ate through the linings of the pipes that then gave lead poisoning to the entire town.

That had nothing to do with fracking; it had to do with a crumbling infrastructure that wasn't corrected because someone was afraid it would cost too much. Sound familiar?


Or how about Bridgeton, Mo? If you are not sure about that, here is the story, radioactive materials, going back to the Manhatten project is placed there, in a landfill, with another landfill close by with an underground fire. There is run off from the waste that contaminated the water supply, causing a lot of people with health problems to happen. If that fire, that is ever creeping closer to the radioactive waste, when it gets there, the area will become unlivable, and toxic.

Actually, no, I hadn't heard of that instance. However, I also was not aware that radioactive waste was worsened by burning. Who would have thought that a nuclear chain reaction was affected by molecular reduction?

Not me, I know better. The waste has the same amount of radioactivity whether it is burning or not. All the fire could do is perhaps spread the radioactive elements.


Still think the restrictions are such a bad idea?

I have no problem with a restriction on burning radioactive waste underground. If you want to include other restrictions/regulations, I would need to hear what they are before making a decision as to whether or not I believe them reasonable.

That's where your argument fails. You are trying to include a blanket support for any regulation deemed as 'environmental' by citing specific horrific examples of poor environmental choices that do not apply outside their specific venues.


Infrastructure projects do grow the economy, however where is the money going to come from. One can not just simply start that without a money to get the material, and to pay the workers, or even to get this started?

Sure you can; our government does it all the time. It's called a deficit.

I'm no fan of deficits, but I do think if one were to use deficit spending, it is better used to stimulate the economy and grow the tax base than, say, pay tuition for illegal immigrants or supply weapons to countries that really don't like us. We already do those things.


Well bless your heart, for thinking that I may learn something, perhaps you could, like me, experience much of it, and learn something as well.

Oh, yes, I am 17 years old and sitting my parent's basement, never having having ventured forth in life... NOT.

There are some members on here who know exactly who I am and what I have experienced, and you just made a complete fool of yourself in their eyes by that assumption. I realize you believe yourself a sage, full of wisdom from the ages that would save the world if only people would listen... so was I 40 years ago.


Seeing stuff first hand, and experiencing it, is a bit of an eye opener, especially for the environmental controls, and the infrastructure improvements.

Sorry, I didn't get that; I was busy looking at the pristine woods I live in and care for. You were saying something about environmental controls?

How many acres of virgin forest do you maintain, again?

TheRedneck



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