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Should undocumented immigrants attending State of the Union be arrested along with House members?

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posted on Jan, 30 2018 @ 03:56 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr

See THIS is why I'm confused. Why, if they are not there illegally, did the congressman Paul Gosar (as documented in previous posts) indicate to police that they should attend and arrest any illegals attending? That makes no sense.

Are they there illegally as he states or are they there legally as you state?




posted on Jan, 30 2018 @ 04:03 PM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: matafuchs



Can you imagine arrests at the end of the SOTU? If they want to try to make a point we should do it right back at them.


By all means, go for it.

It would be a perfect example for US citizens to see how authoritarian the Right Wing is becoming.

Televise it and let's see it go down.


Yea! what kind of monster enforced #ing LAWS!?!?!?!?

The imigration laws aren't really "laws" per sea, they are more "guidelines" that are optional to follow. The Statue of liberty just wiped her tear.

Just so you know, this is kind of a sticking point with you lunatics on the left. You have ventured so far into stupidville that you somehow believe that ILLEGAL immigration is the fault of the right, but letting those poor undocumented brothers from another land stick around to suck up our hospitality is somehow their right.

I only hope one day, you all realize just how incredibly ignorant you were today.
edit on 30-1-2018 by network dude because: bad spler



posted on Jan, 30 2018 @ 04:06 PM
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originally posted by: Indrasweb
a reply to: dragonridr

Are they there illegally as he states or are they there legally as you state?


Every person in the United States, whether citizen, resident, alien visitor, or undocumented alien, has various "legal" rights.

It is illegal to murder an undocumented alien, for example, because the US Law protects him, even though he is in the land "illegally".

So, undocumented aliens can "legally" attend a public function, just like any other person. They can walk on the sidewalk "legally", just like the rest of us, and the cops can't give them a "jaywalking" ticket just because they are undocumented.



posted on Jan, 30 2018 @ 04:07 PM
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As they are criminals, they, of course, should be arrested immediately.



posted on Jan, 30 2018 @ 04:08 PM
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a reply to: network dude

Nice strawman.



posted on Jan, 30 2018 @ 04:09 PM
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Even though this sort of moral posturing is an act of political theatre by the Dems, not to mention a flagrant flaunting of criminality, no, they should not be arrested. That's probably what the Dems want.



posted on Jan, 30 2018 @ 04:11 PM
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originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: Chance321
As long as they are breaking our laws, no they don't deserve be treated as such. Go to mexico illegally and see how many rights they give you.


Shouldn't all who break the law be treated the same?

Whether they are undocumented or not, what should it matter?

If the law is a misdemeanor, why would you require a harsher punishment as if it was some felony?

Why should the citizen get a pass, when breaking the law, but not the undocumented?


Undocumented? You mean illegal aliens? As you can see I'm not down with the politically correct lingo. They should have a harsher punishment because they are already breaking our laws by being here illegally. By not coming here legally they are thumbing their noses at us and our legal system.



posted on Jan, 30 2018 @ 04:13 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth
As they are criminals, they, of course, should be arrested immediately.


Criminals need to have an accuser.

You have committed no crime, until someone first accuses you, and then you get your day in court, to then decide whether or not you did commit some crime. All are innocent, until "proven" guilty.



posted on Jan, 30 2018 @ 04:18 PM
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a reply to: AMPTAH



It is illegal to murder an undocumented alien, for example, because the US Law protects him, even though he is in the land "illegally".


I have to say your wrong on this. It's not illegal to murder an illegal alien. Illegal aliens are not a "protected species " but it is illegal to commit murder period, legal citizen or illegal alien.



posted on Jan, 30 2018 @ 04:22 PM
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a reply to: Chance321

You just said the same thing.



posted on Jan, 30 2018 @ 04:29 PM
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Regardless of who anyone is bringing, everyone attending the State of the Union should be ID'd and cleared to attend. Who they are should have zero to do with that. When you have POTUS and Congress all together, security should be at it's highest level.

Being a guest of anyone should not guarantee access and their guests should have a full background check in advance and if not turned away at the door. Anything else would be stupid beyond belief.

I'd not be surprised if they are turned away and it's all a propaganda ploy. I can't imagine security caring who they are with.



posted on Jan, 30 2018 @ 04:43 PM
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a reply to: introvert

I gave a pretty clear example of how selective enforcement of laws was dangerous to our republic...not sure how that's a false equivalent.

The people covered under what was the DACA need congress to do their job...but some members who from what it appears pander to minorities for votes have been throwing the wrench in that to try to gain more than a simple compromise for the good of those in question that had DACA protections. While it may not be black and white it sure seems concessions would be made if those on the other side would also agree to do something about the underlying problem...however they don't seem to be interested in fixing what caused this,from the get go...they seem interested in getting more of those votes so to fix the problem to them is bad. See where I am going here...they aren't arguing this from a moral standpoint and we all know it. Lets do whats right and fix the problem and at the same time clean up our mess in the most humane way and grant those already here under DACA amnesty and a path to citizenship.

Laws being selectively enforced is definitely fact...however because its happening doesn't mean it should be and I would hope we could agree it shouldn't be. So I think that's a moot point to argue.

If you don't care that's fine but many many other do so while it may not matter to you that doesn't mean it doesn't matter.

I think you are stretching to say that government officials are pushing to round up people in the media...well I think that's a flat exaggeration. I do think some are pushing for there to be penalties for flat out lying or using a protected position such as the media has for such purposes and to be frank its quite dangerous to allow. Any rich SOB who owns one of those 6 parent companies that run 99% of the US media could swing the US in any direction that benefited themselves to our detriment as well as allowing such rumored operations like mockingbird. If you can't see the danger in that I don't know what will show you. Propaganda is bad regardless of which side promotes it.

I was making the point that saying this,shows more rightwing authoritarianism is hyperbole and from where you were making your point it doesn't seem to have much merit...agree or not I was stating my opinion...you don't have to care, but others read this site as well and I felt that point should be challenged and its up to you to argue it further...I don't care either way there.

That should about cover what seemed like needed a rebuttal. Again I may not change your mind but when I read your post I felt it should be countered as I felt the point you were attempting to make was wrong. My opinion for sure but that's the beauty of a site that allows user input and content.



posted on Jan, 30 2018 @ 04:45 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: introvert

How is arresting people who are breaking the law "Right Wing Actions" ?


You have to understand, the leftists are the perpetual "victim class".

So arresting them is what they want.

It'd fit in with their talking points.


To turn it back on them, Trump should look at the illegals, say, "If any of you are Dreamers, come on down and I will promise you citizenship if only those that invited you would agree with me."


Ding! Ding! Ding! Have a cigar! I believe you've hit on the best possible response. He needs to speak directly to them, telling them his offer and asking them to ask their handlers to find common ground.



posted on Jan, 30 2018 @ 05:09 PM
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originally posted by: conspiracy nut

i understand that we have to confront illegal immigration but the lack of empathy from the right is sickening and i feel your anger growing like rabid dogs foaming at the mouth. how about you show some empathy and work on a compromise where we get rid of the criminals and work with the hard working, law abiding, decent folk on a pathway to citizenship?


A law abiding illegal immigrant is an oxymoron. There's no such thing.



posted on Jan, 30 2018 @ 05:19 PM
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Yeah they could take em along with Trump as he is accused of Obstruction of justice, criminal bribery and espionage



posted on Jan, 30 2018 @ 05:24 PM
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originally posted by: introvert

By all means, go for it.

It would be a perfect example for US citizens to see how authoritarian the Right Wing is becoming.

Televise it and let's see it go down.


The punishment for being in our country illegally is that you have to go home. It doesn't get any fairer than that.

He should have them arrested and deported on the spot, but I have a sneaking suspicion that you Democrats are hoping for riots.



posted on Jan, 30 2018 @ 05:40 PM
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a reply to: network dude



Yea! what kind of monster enforced #ing LAWS!?!?!?!?

The imigration laws aren't really "laws" per sea, they are more "guidelines" that are optional to follow. The Statue of liberty just wiped her tear.


That seems to be a bit of a contradiction. The Statue of Liberty has a plaque on it with the New Colossus poem, which, as I'm sure you know, gives us the lines about giving us "your tired, your poor", your "homeless", etc. The statue itself has become a symbol of immigration and the melting pot that is the US.

That is how I look at issues such as this. We should be welcoming people, but we seem spit on what the statue has come to symbolize and instead of inviting the poor, tired and such, we cry "get off my lawn".

So I find it ironic you invoke the Statue of Liberty in this example. It's very spirit is in contrast to your point.



Just so you know, this is kind of a sticking point with you lunatics on the left. You have ventured so far into stupidville that you somehow believe that ILLEGAL immigration is the fault of the right


I've never heard anyone make such a claim.

Are you just making stuff up again?



but letting those poor undocumented brothers from another land stick around to suck up our hospitality is somehow their right.


Yup. You are making things up again. I've never made any such claim.

It appears you are creating a strawman so that you do not actually have to debate a point that was actually made.



I only hope one day, you all realize just how incredibly ignorant you were today


Considering that I am not the one fabricating logical fallacies out of shear intellectual laziness, I take your comment with a very small grain of salt.



posted on Jan, 30 2018 @ 05:58 PM
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I thought they were bringing Dreamers to the SOTU, no? In which case, for the time being at least, they aren't 'criminals'. Frankly, I think the Dems missed a golden opportunity. I think they should have invited Stormy Daniels to attend and sat her right in front.



posted on Jan, 30 2018 @ 06:11 PM
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a reply to: RickyD



I gave a pretty clear example of how selective enforcement of laws was dangerous to our republic...not sure how that's a false equivalent.


False equivalence.

It is a false equivalence because the example you gave is a clear case in which the government is not equally applying the law in a specific case that can be remedied by legal action taken against the government.

In this case, you are talking about millions of people involved and it cannot be remedied by a simple court case, nor is it reasonable to say that it can be remedied by rounding them all up.



The people covered under what was the DACA need congress to do their job...but some members who from what it appears pander to minorities for votes have been throwing the wrench in that to try to gain more than a simple compromise for the good of those in question that had DACA protections. While it may not be black and white it sure seems concessions would be made if those on the other side would also agree to do something about the underlying problem...however they don't seem to be interested in fixing what caused this,from the get go...they seem interested in getting more of those votes so to fix the problem to them is bad. See where I am going here...they aren't arguing this from a moral standpoint and we all know it. Lets do whats right and fix the problem and at the same time clean up our mess in the most humane way and grant those already here under DACA amnesty and a path to citizenship.


I agree. We should find the easiest path to citizenship we can and be done with the issue, but let's not be fools and say this is just an issue from one side of the political spectrum. Both sides play this issue for all the votes, air time, web hits and such that they can get. Both sides beat us over the head with it and it is a dividing issue they exploit.



I think you are stretching to say that government officials are pushing to round up people in the media...well I think that's a flat exaggeration.


Good thing I did not say that. Perhaps you should read what I posted again.

I was referring to regular people calling for such actions. You can find it on ATS. Do a search.



I was making the point that saying this,shows more rightwing authoritarianism is hyperbole and from where you were making your point it doesn't seem to have much merit...agree or not I was stating my opinion...you don't have to care, but others read this site as well and I felt that point should be challenged and its up to you to argue it further...I don't care either way there.


My point was that if people cannot be reasonable and want to find solutions like amnesty/path to citizenship, and instead advocate for arresting people en mass/deportations and such, that is a sign of authoritarianism. They feel the law of the almighty state needs to be followed and there is no wiggle room for more reasonable solutions, even for those people that have been here most of their lives and know no other place as their home.

Why would my use of the word be considered hyperbole, but those that call for unreasonable measures to be taken are not given comparable consideration?



That should about cover what seemed like needed a rebuttal. Again I may not change your mind but when I read your post I felt it should be countered as I felt the point you were attempting to make was wrong. My opinion for sure but that's the beauty of a site that allows user input and content.


Fair enough. All I would ask is that you present my statements or arguments in proper context.

There seems to be an issue with that lately.



posted on Jan, 30 2018 @ 06:12 PM
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originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: introvert

By all means, go for it.

It would be a perfect example for US citizens to see how authoritarian the Right Wing is becoming.

Televise it and let's see it go down.


The punishment for being in our country illegally is that you have to go home. It doesn't get any fairer than that.

He should have them arrested and deported on the spot, but I have a sneaking suspicion that you Democrats are hoping for riots.


I'm not a democrat and I do not hope for riots. I hope people listen to Trump, do not interrupt him, show him some respect and go home.







 
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