The War of Two Memos

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Martin75

I heard Nunes didn't even see the classified FBI documents at all. How can that be?

As usual you are so behind and off base.
Nunes was the memo.
And it is people like you that I say both memos can't be released together.
You would have Silly people who would only read one and ignore the other. Some are so blinded by partisanship they are lost to logic.

a reply to: Martin75

Wasn't schiff outed for being a leaker?
Which blossomed into false news items...generated to identify who's leaking what story?

3 guys given 3 different "classified" items. Peanuts Walnuts cashews. MSM ran with the guy talking about cashews.

Now schiff is going to tell us all about the function of cashews.

Nuts!

a reply to: Sillyolme

At least one source reported that he just had a bunch of aides put the memo together.
Hard to say how much he's actually seen. His big thing is throwing a fit about how the investigation has been conducted. As they relate to those efforts, it's likely the Justice Department has let him see a small fraction of the documents.

a reply to: Gandalf77

it's likely the Justice Department has let him see a small fraction of the documents.

All you smart people suddenly forget the doj and fbi were threatened with contempt not so long ago on a subpoena issued in August that was not complied with ?

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Martin75

I heard Nunes didn't even see the classified FBI documents at all. How can that be?

I heard Nunes eats the heads of tiny kittens before worshipping Satan.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Gandalf77

it's likely the Justice Department has let him see a small fraction of the documents.

All you smart people suddenly forget the doj and fbi were threatened with contempt not so long ago on a subpoena issued in August that was not complied with ?

Not at all. That's actually what I'm referencing in an indirect way: Nunes finally got to see some of those documents he had subpoena'd. Now he's going to use them in a rather misguided and disingenuous way to try and discredit Mueller's investigation.

Sorry don't have a link, will try to find one.
BUT.....FBI agents confirm memo.

www.foxnews.com... cies

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Painterz

The freggin Steele dossier was created by a foreign spy paid for by the DNC and CLinton campaign.

Trump haters have no problems with that what so ever.

At least Nunes is a effing American.

It doesn't matter who funded the research.

What matters is if the details uncovered by the research are true or not.

That should be the focus. Not who put up money to produce the research.

a reply to: Gandalf77

As they relate to those efforts, it's likely the Justice Department has let him see a small fraction of the documents.

indirectly referencing "a small fraction"?

bs
you are full of crap
the entire committee was presented the documents
AND the entire house was invited to read the memo

the fbi and the doj submarined muellers investigation, congress exposing wrongdoing did not
nice attempt at spin tho

www.foxnews.com... cies

Two Senior FBI officials, one from the bureau’s counter intelligence division, the other from legal, have now reviewed the republican staff memo, alleging abuses of government surveillance programs during the 2016 election, a source familiar with the matter tells Fox News, adding that the officials “could not point to any factual inaccuracies.”

a reply to: Martin75

This is the fight that has been on-going for quite some time. With Nunes leading this campaign to Release the Memo.

No, it hasn't. The memo was compiled by Nunes/his staffers a couple weeks ago. Within days, on Jan 18th, a cadre of pro-Trump congressmen and media outlets started talking about it and demanding it be released. (Google it, you won't find anything earlier).

The democrats have been working tirelessly to ensure that the memo was not released and that The American People were NOT allowed to see it but luckily the Truth Prevailed!!!!

You're assuming without any information that what Nunes is pushing is "The Truth." Nunes himself hasn't seen the underlying classified material nor have most of the committee members. That material is not being released either which is the crux of the problem. The only way to actually confirm the accuracy of the memo (or to refute its claims) is with classified documents.

Adam Schiff,D-Calif is now wanting to release his own memo. Although I do not remember hearing about this memo until now. Nor have I been able to find anything that corroborates that the “Schiff Memo” even existed before last night.

Then I would suggest that a) you're not following the developments very closely and b) you're not very good at looking. Within a couple days of the Republicans voting to release the memo to the full House, the Democrats had put together a 10-page memo in response. It's existence was reported in lots and lots of outlets about a week ago. Here's a few right-leaning:

WSJ - Memo vs. Memo: Democrats to Counter GOP’s Document on Russia Probes

The Hill - House Intel Dems have drafted separate memo countering GOP claims

Washington Examiner - House Intel Democrats preparing own memo to counter GOP's 'misleading' FISA memo on Trump

So, when the Republicans wanted their memo released it was of the utmost national security that NO ONE read it, but now that the Democrats have their own memo they want to show it to the world?

No. It's like this. Imagine that I made a thread about you, revealing personal information about you and making a bunch of false claims. And the only way you can refute it is by revealing more of your personal information, which of course you don't want to do.

Now further imagine that you can't stop me from doing it. You don't want this stuff out there but in the end, if your private information is going to be revealed to the public anyway, you at least want an opportunity to dispute the false allegations that were made against you.

That's a rough analogy.

I believe that the democratic memo should be bound by the same time constraints that the republican memo went through. Schiff can show everyone his memo in a few months, after the proper security precautions are taken.

The Republican memo wasn't held up for months, it's only existed for about two weeks. Unlike with the Nunes memo, the Democrats agreed from the start to allow the DOJ and FBI to view their memo and weigh in on the release of any classified information it contains.

What you're saying doesn't make any sense and it's based on misconceptions. The Democrats wrote a memo in response to the Nunes memo. Yesterday, the Democrats pushed to release both memos at the same time (and why shouldn't they? Nunes sprung a memo that he created unilaterally — shouldn't they have the same opportunity?)

We won't be getting "The Truth," we'll be getting exactly what Nunes wants us to hear and not one thing more. We won't be getting the classified material in any form to make a decision for ourselves about the veracity of what Nunes claims and we won't be getting the Democrat counter memo.

a reply to: Painterz

Exactly right. But details don't matter where Nunes' efforts to derail the investigation are concerned.
The only aspect of a very large and complex picture he wants people to focus on is the fact that dems picked up some of the tab for the research--the very circuitous logic being that this must add up to abuse and bias when the FBI obtained the FISA warrant to monitor Page.

He doesn't want people thinking about all the things the memo will surely fail to address:
He doesn't want people thinking about how the FBI was looking at Page since at least 2013.
He doesn't want people thinking about how our allies handed over intelligence about Page's activities overseas to the CIA that they in turn showed the FBI.
He doesn't want people thinkng about all the other evidence they're not seeing that was used to meet the rigorous standards for the FISA warrant.
And he certainly doesn't want people thinking about what information was uncovered that was used to RENEW that FISA warrant.

They're getting desperate here folks, and why is that?
What's the real motivation?
Is it possible that Page was the key go-between who brought an official "offer" of cooperation from team Cheeto to bad Vlad?
If such a smoking gun exists, it's likely in the form of SIGINT. For the time being, Nunes knows good and well that information (sources and methods) is so sensitive it won't come out in a public setting.

Hence, the real motivation behind Nunes' stupid memo could be to preemptively discredit the means by which that smoking gun was obtained.

a reply to: loveguy

No, Schiff wasn't outed for being a leaker. You'd think that because it's a meme pushed by the right. Another thing that most people don't know is that Nunes was supposedly "completely cleared" by the GOP-run House Ethics Committee for allegations of sharing classified information but as it turns out, the House Ethics Committee was never able to get access to the classified information he was alleged to have potentially divulged.

Let that sink in. They GOP-run House Ethics Committee cleared him of sharing classified information without being able to view the classified information which means it's impossible that they did their own comparison.

Article about that here.

Also, as a side note, somebody from the GOP apparently shared the memo with Hungarian fugitive, Sebastian Gorka.

And if you want to get into leaks, GOP members of the HPSCI GOP and the Senate Judiciary Committee both leaked details from the Glenn Simpson testimonies to the right-wing media and clearly shared notes between their committees (also a leak).

So if page is such a bad hombre why is he still walking freely and not charged with crimes?

With "all the evidence" the fbi had why was their fisa warrant declined?

What evidence got that declined warrant granted?

That is what is in the memo
That is what the dems dont want released

a reply to: Gandalf77

That's diabolical!

So Nunes, by showing the memo, which proves corruption from Obama's administration to the DOJ and FBI leadership is just a smokescreen to hide the pay-offs from Putin to Trump!


Gotta say, that sounds plausible.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Gandalf77

That's diabolical!

So Nunes, by showing the memo, which proves corruption from Obama's administration to the DOJ and FBI leadership is just a smokescreen to hide the pay-offs from Putin to Trump!


Gotta say, that sounds plausible.

That's not what I'm suggesting.
I highly doubt the Nunes memo will prove anything at all--let alone systematic corruption going back to Obama.
That memo is going to focus on one little aspect of the process by which the FBI obtained the FISA warrant on Page, which happens to include references to the Steele dossier. That's it. That's their story. That warrant would not have been granted if all they had was the Steele dossier.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
So if page is such a bad hombre why is he still walking freely and not charged with crimes?

With "all the evidence" the fbi had why was their fisa warrant declined?

What evidence got that declined warrant granted?

That is what is in the memo
That is what the dems dont want released

Indeed. Those are good questions.
I don't have a good guess in terms of why Page is still running around free, except to say that a number of the key characters in this whole twisted affair still are. More shoes will drop.

Regarding the FISA warrant, though, it is my understanding that the first application was rejected because it named too many people. The FBI narrowed the scope on the second application, and it was approved and subsequently renewed once they presented the judge with their initial findings.

a reply to: Gandalf77

Source for your understanding on the fisa warrant rejection please?

You do understand how severe the consequences are for a sitting administration to use the intelligence community against its political opponents?
You do understand both the fbi(Strzok) and doj(ohr) are involved in the vetting of ANY fisa warrant?
You do understand it is a crime to commit fraud on the fisa court?

Do you not think these are issues that need to be looked in to?

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Gandalf77

Source for your understanding on the fisa warrant rejection please?

You do understand how severe the consequences are for a sitting administration to use the intelligence community against its political opponents?
You do understand both the fbi(Strzok) and doj(ohr) are involved in the vetting of ANY fisa warrant?
You do understand it is a crime to commit fraud on the fisa court?

Do you not think these are issues that need to be looked in to?

I know where I read about the warrant, but I need to find the exact article for you.

I understand that the process by which the FBI can obtain a FISA warrant is rigorous and requires providing layers of authentication and corroboration to the FISA court. The burden is on the FBI to prove to a judge that the warrant is necessary, and the bar is understandably high. I have not heard or read that Strzok or Ohr were involved in the process to obtain the FISA warrant on Page and others. They are allowed to have their political opinions, but I'm glad Mueller removed Strzok as soon as he got wind of their texts. People are desperately trying to connect the whole Clinton email thing to Mueller's investigation. It's not going to work.

I sincerely doubt there was fraud involved with obtaining that warrant. The Trump DOJ (via Rosenstein) was OK with it.
The FBI was already on to Page (nobody seems to want to address that one), and the FBI already had a good working relationship with Steele, who used his established network of Russian contacts to help crack the FIFA scandal.

Nunes and crew are going to focus on that one little aspect of how they applied for the warrant in yet another ridiculous attempt to suggest that this whole investigation is somehow bogus because of the usual nonsense--Clinton, Obama, etc.

Again, everyone wants to ignore the bigger issue where Page is concerned: What did they uncover that got the FISA warrant renewed?

a reply to: Gandalf77

I sincerely doubt there was fraud involved with obtaining that warrant.

Than why all the hubub about releasing the memo?
If there were no shenanigans why not release it?

Nunes and crew are going to focus on that one little aspect of how they applied for the warrant in yet another ridiculous attempt to suggest that this whole investigation is somehow bogus because of the usual nonsense--Clinton, Obama, etc.

If that "one little aspect" invalidates the fisa warrant where does that leave the investigation?
That is kind of the point with this whole episode.

Again, everyone wants to ignore the bigger issue where Page is concerned: What did they uncover that got the FISA warrant renewed?

I already asked why page was still walking around free. Especially if he has been under fisa warrant since 2013.