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Canada to operate CF-18s to 2032

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posted on Jan, 28 2018 @ 06:08 PM
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Canada has announced that they're going to continue to operate their CF-18 fleet until 2032. They have been doing upgrades on the aircraft to allow them to operate until 2025, but haven't announced plans for further upgrades. They plan to start taking deliveries of their new fighter in 2025, with deliveries completing in 2030. That will put the current F-18s at 50 years at the time they're retired.

Questions have been raised about if that is set in stone, because deliveries could slip as the program goes on. The Australians are also in talks to sell second hand F-18s to Canada to supplement the current fleet. The government has set aside $500M for that program. The reasoning behind Canada wanting to buy Super Hornets was because the existing fleet was old, and getting expensive to maintain, and would possibly require significant upgrades.


Canada will squeeze even more flying time out of its aging CF-18s, keeping the jets operating for another 15 years.

There had been plans to take the jets out of service shortly after 2025.

But representatives from companies who took part in a Jan. 22 industry day outlining the Liberal government’s program to buy new fighter planes were told the RCAF will now keep the CF-18s operating until 2032.

The jets, first received in 1982, will be retired after 50 years of service.

nationalpost.com...




posted on Jan, 28 2018 @ 06:42 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

It's the SeaKing debacle all over again...

It's hard not to think the Boeing/Bombardier saga has something to do with this.

Given the state of the existing CF-188's (F/A-18 A&B) it seems unlikely AT BEST that the existing jets will make it that long.

Hopefully this is more of an issue of the Canadian Liberals kicking the can a little bit down the road hoping to make up with Boeing and will actually make a decision quicker. Given their history, that may be a bit naive on my part.

If you look at the service history of Canadian fighter jets, it is clear they buy reluctantly and then fly those airframes into the ground.

That said, you would think they would get the most advanced jet they can (F-35) knowing they intend to fly it for decades. Buying used (albeit well maintained Australian F/A-18 Super Hornets) seems short sighted.

In reading the reporting on this issue, I don't think the Canadian Press really understands that the Australian F/A-18's are E/F Super Hornets, a fundamentally different plane than the CF-188 A/B.



posted on Jan, 28 2018 @ 06:48 PM
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a reply to: Leonidas

Actually the ones they're looking to buy from Australia are their old legacy aircraft, not Super Hornets. The RAAF is slowly disposing of the legacy aircraft, and if the deal is approved by the US, expect to transfer the first aircraft next year.

I just joked with a Navy maintainer today that if you can't get 15,000 hours out of an 8,000 hour airframe you aren't trying hard enough.



posted on Jan, 28 2018 @ 06:53 PM
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Only way for Canada to move ahead is revival of their own industries such as Avro.



posted on Jan, 28 2018 @ 06:56 PM
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a reply to: makemap

Which they currently can't do, and even if they could, would take far longer to build something than buying from another country. The only way they could do it, is to buy their next aircraft from someone, and then try to revive their industry.



posted on Jan, 28 2018 @ 07:01 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

The best way for Canadians to do it fast is to start copying like China and bring out its own design after that. FK copyright protection act, it slows everything down. As long as its not a super weapon. It'll be fine.
edit on 28-1-2018 by makemap because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2018 @ 07:02 PM
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a reply to: makemap

At which point they screw their relations with their friends. Russia and China don't exactly have the best relationship anymore because of that.



posted on Jan, 28 2018 @ 07:05 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

China still has really good relations. US lost its relations due to non-stop war and hiding technology. That is a fact that everyone knows. Though Russia is almost like USA when it comes to hoarding technology. That is why Russia doesn't have that much relationship. If you think US has a lot more relations than China, then your wrong. Everyone is just as scared at US just like Russia. Europeans are not catching up and US aviation industries are taking over.
edit on 28-1-2018 by makemap because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2018 @ 07:13 PM
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a reply to: makemap

China and Russia relations were never great to begin with, but have seriously soured in recent years, because of China copying tech of equipment that they've bought from Russia.


The remaining Su-35s are expected to be delivered within the next three years. But given the Kremlin’s previous experiences with selling China advanced technology, Moscow has insisted on agreements to secure Russian intellectual property onboard the Su-35. In previous years, the Chinese reverse engineered older versions of the Flanker into the Shenyang J-11, J-15 and J-16 series of aircraft.

nationalinterest.org...

Russia had an informal ban on sales to China, because of Chinese reverse engineering of Russian technology.


Russia informally banned the sale of advanced weaponry to China a little over a decade ago due to mounting concerns over the replication of Russian technology and divergent strategic interests; however, that ban appears to have been lifted as the bilateral relationship between the two powers grows stronger.

dailycaller.com...

Their relations are improving, but still aren't great.

European aerospace doesn't have a fifth generation aircraft, but they aren't nearly as bad as you seem to be trying to make them out to be.
edit on 1/28/2018 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2018 @ 07:15 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

So do you think it is a mistake?

Consider Canada's position in global conflicts. We have never really been much of an air force. We train good recon soldiers. We don't sneak into enemy airspace very often though.

We would have had the F-35 if some questions were given straight answers. We have to maintain a certain level of spending but the F-35 was beyond that and was not a solution for any problem we plan on encountering.

But again. What are your thoughts?



posted on Jan, 28 2018 @ 07:18 PM
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a reply to: MALBOSIA

The Legacy F-18s are going to be extremely hard pressed to operate anywhere near that long. They're already seeing parts shortages for them as parts are no longer made. The only way I see them getting anywhere near 2032 is if they undergo upgrades to C models.

This whole farce has been brought about because the current government said they wouldn't buy the F-35, and then realized they can't legally bar it from a competition, so they're trying to kick the can down the road. And it's going to end up biting the pilots in the ass in the long run.



posted on Jan, 28 2018 @ 07:25 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: MALBOSIA

The Legacy F-18s are going to be extremely hard pressed to operate anywhere near that long. They're already seeing parts shortages for them as parts are no longer made. The only way I see them getting anywhere near 2032 is if they undergo upgrades to C models.

This whole farce has been brought about because the current government said they wouldn't buy the F-35, and then realized they can't legally bar it from a competition, so they're trying to kick the can down the road. And it's going to end up biting the pilots in the ass in the long run.


That's true. It is politics. The current liberal government capitalized on the previous conservatives pushing a spending plan that had no verifiable cap. If the conservatives had done their homework instead of tabling a half-assed proposal, we might be taking delivery of F-35's by now.

If what you say is true and the F-18 just won't make it then this is just a kick-the-can move.

Either way. The US has more F-35's than Canada will ever need



posted on Jan, 28 2018 @ 07:33 PM
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a reply to: MALBOSIA

The Marine Reserves are in the process of taking A model airframes out of the Boneyard and upgrading them to C++ so they can replace their A models. They're one of the last US operators of them, and they're seeing all kinds of maintenance related issues with them, due to parts, and age. They probably use them harder than the RCAF does, but it's an indication of where the RCAF is going to end up in a few years.



posted on Jan, 28 2018 @ 07:37 PM
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a reply to: MALBOSIA

The problem with F-35 is because it is a wrong plane for Canada. It was design to be more of a bomber than a fighter/interceptor. Canada wants fighter/interceptor jets like F-22 Raptor. They need planes more like the CF-100.

Go check WW2. Canadians used mostly spitfires and hawker hurricanes. They are not bombers.
en.wikipedia.org...

As you say Canada trains "good recon soldiers". What good is it when you don't have fast recon planes than can shoot enemy jets out of the sky? You don't need bombers as recon. You have artillery and other land tactics for that. Bombers/strike fighter can be spotted easily. You need to be able to counter enemy jets reconnaissance from spotting recons. They say those who have control of the skies have the most advantage. But you can't win a war only having the skies.

WW2. The Germans failed to take control of the skies therefore delayed plans for land invasion of Britain. Now if Canada can't knock out enemy fighters/bombers invading the skies. A mass land invasion will happen easily as there won't be any chance for reconnaissance plane to warn of any invasion.


edit on 28-1-2018 by makemap because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2018 @ 07:45 PM
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a reply to: makemap

Single mission aircraft are on their way out. You won't see any aircraft designed to do one thing anymore, not even the F-22. The F-35 is both ground attack and a fighter, just like the F-18 is. The F-35 is actually better for the area than the F-18 is. With its networking capabilities and being able to link with other F-35s they can cover a huge area with their sensors, as opposed to what any other aircraft can do. A handful of F-35s could cover the entire region, and can tie in with every other NATO ally without having to have a gateway platform.

No matter what they end up going with though, it's not going to be a straight fighter or interceptor. The days of the interceptor are dead, and the days of the single mission fighter are dying. Once the last of them is retired, they'll be dead too.



posted on Jan, 28 2018 @ 07:59 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

You forgot about Cost. F-35 cost too much to try and defend the size of Canada's land. F-35 is still apparently in testing phase. Why would the Canadian Gov buy something incomplete?

The EU dollar cost more than Canadian dollar so buying anything remotely EU is a ripoff. European jets are behind in times. The only option is to buy Russian/Chinese. But, if Canada does that they get blamed for abandoning allies. You can't trust Russians. Buying from China will get blamed for supporting Communism and Chinese Jets are also behind. Pakistan buy jets from China, so it doesn't really have anything to do with Communism at all.

The only option is have Canada build its own fighter jet program internally and stop US/UK from crippling its own program. We all know UK doesn't truly support Canadians.
edit on 28-1-2018 by makemap because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2018 @ 08:11 PM
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a reply to: makemap

The F-35 has reached IOC, and is approaching full capability. Canada is looking at taking delivery starting in 2025, by which time they will have long reached FOC and be done with testing. As for cost, the A model, which Canada would be buying, is already down to less than an F-18, or just about any other 4th generation fighter. The last LRIP had the A model at $94.6M, and by LRIP 14, it's expected to be down to $80M. Once the block buy starts, costs will drop significantly. Canada won't be ordering anything until after the block buy is in place.

As for Europe being behind the times, again, you're wrong. The Typhoon is probably one of the most advanced 4th gen fighters on the market. It's probably classified as a 4.5+ or 4.5++, making it one of the most advanced non-5th generation aircraft out there. They aren't stealth, but that doesn't mean that they are behind the times. The new Gripen is almost as advanced, and is one of the cheapest aircraft on the market.

As for Russian and Chinese, unless they're going to modify them to put NATO weapons on them, and NATO sensors and equipment, they'd have all kinds of other problems with having them in inventory than "being blamed for abandoning allies". You can't buy an Su-35, and just slap a JDAM on it. That means that they're going to have to buy a weapons stockpile for their own use, and can't be part of the NATO weapons stockpile. Same with spare parts. And Russian and Chinese engines are still not as reliable as their western counterparts. They're good, but they still haven't caught up in terms of reliability.



posted on Jan, 28 2018 @ 08:28 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58


Single mission aircraft are on their way out.


B-21? PCA?

O



posted on Jan, 28 2018 @ 08:30 PM
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a reply to: anzha

The B-21 is also under consideration as a missile truck, and according to statements quietly released by the Air Force will have a limited air to air capability.

PCA isn't even at the design stage, let alone being built. By the time it gets to that stage, the mission will be expanded, if it gets that far, and they don't kill it.



posted on Jan, 28 2018 @ 08:31 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

I'm being a turkey on purpose.

I'd have added PAK-DA and H-20, but, y'know, one is a farce and the other we don't have any data on.




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