Australian Growler burns on takeoff

a reply to: bally001

Still got the crew , we can always get another plane .

a reply to: hutch622

They launched F-15 91-0320 from Lakenheath today back to the Depot. About two months ago, she was taking off and suffered a catastrophic engine failure that resulted in burn through of the aft fuselage. They might surprise everyone and end up fixing this one.

a reply to: hutch622

They'll fix it up with a bit of wire and 100 mp/h tape.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: hutch622

They launched F-15 91-0320 from Lakenheath today back to the Depot. About two months ago, she was taking off and suffered a catastrophic engine failure that resulted in burn through of the aft fuselage. They might surprise everyone and end up fixing this one.

Even the 110's had a problem like that if I remember right. Balls29 was the one burn through I can remember, I think.

Odds are they'll fix it. Bean counters hate to write them off, and Boeing needs the work (and it's already stateside).

originally posted by: toysforadults
Thought they were used to handling Growler's at Nellis???

I bet some sailors are getting their asses handed to them on that maintenance crew.

I bet some Air Force personnel are hoping you are correct....

More like the Pilot get a lot of free beer from the Groundcrew..Glad all ok..Planes can be replaced..People cant..

a reply to: Zaphod58
Did I miss that somewhere, have we finally committed to converting the second tranche that were "wired for but not with" to be converted to EA's? That would be quite a potent force with 24, or maybe 23 if we dont buy a top up airframe.

You would be surprised what our guys have rescued in the past from what would be considered write-offs in other countries. I remember the story of one of the F-4E's we were loaning in the early 70's while the F-111's were delayed. The USAF guys couldn't believe that we crashed it as bad as we did and then completely rebuilt it.

a reply to: thebozeian

I haven't heard that they've committed to doing it, just that they're available, and one can be done if this aircraft proves to be too damaged.

a reply to: Zaphod58
Sorry I misunderstood what you were saying, thought you meant they had finally signed for a second lot of Growlers converted from the second tranche of F models bought.

Might be wrong here and a lot of this is going from memory, but:

- There is a requirement for 100 fighter jets for the RAAF, I don't know if this includes attrition or not. The Growlers are explicitly not counted in this figure, they are support aircraft, if they were regarded as fighter aircraft then the purchase would not have been approved. Hence one reason why the 12 pre-wired aircraft purchased in 2007 were not converted and instead 12 new Growlers were purchased in 2013 (6 years later) - Defence wanted the fighters and the support aircraft, not some either/or deal.

- The Super Hornets were supposed to be a fleet of 24 "interim" fighters to fill in between the retirement of the F-111 and F-35, but realistically they aren't interim at all and are going to serve for some time, besides which the F-35A will IOC in December 2020. We need those aircraft, Block II Super Hornet is a very substantial increase in capabilities over the Classic Hornet, and converting one Super Hornet to Growler means that one of our most capable fighters is lost and one support aircraft is maintained.

- Strategic outlook for Australia has worsened since the Super Hornet deal was confirmed towards the end of last decade. This also probably factors in the governments thinking of adding Growlers, rather than converting them despite being able to do so. This means growing air force requirements since the first 24 were ordered. Remember the original plan from 2001 was for 100 F-35's, then in 2007 we settled for 72 F-35's, 24 'interim' Super Hornets, before replacing the latter with a fourth squadron of F-35s to bring the entire F-35 fleet to 100. And now in 2013 12 Growlers have been added on top. It ain't 2001, 2007, or 2013 anymore, the world is far less stable, the US is relatively in a much weaker position, and SE Asia is heating up.

- Whilst 12 Super Hornets were pre-wired for Growler configuration, this is still not a straight forward change. i.e. even the wings have differences. Zero chance of a franken Super Hornet / Growler on something with this much RF equipment. That means changing the wings over and other changes that I have not mentioned.

I think it's likely that if it cannot be repaired, an entirely new aircraft will be purchased. I'm not a fan of losing one of our 24 most capable aircraft to convert it into a support aircraft. Buy a new one, we have the budget and need to do so. Could probably get a new one within a year or two depending on how fast they push it.

Aside: I do like the idea of having aircraft that can be converted however. This may be necessary in future if the Super Hornet goes out of production and the fourth (final) F-35A squadron is announced, which would negate the need for the 'interim' Super Hornets. I don't think we will hear word on the final planned F-35 squadron before F-35A IOC in December 2020. After all waiting on that allows us to get a later block F-35 in the late 2020's. Late 2020's F-35 is going to be a beast - variable cycle engine is possible, redesigned weapons bay is possible, upgraded avionics, upgraded EOTS, DIRCM. Pre-wired aircraft also allows for replacement of attrition and combat losses if the Super Hornet is out of production. Remember the goal of having pre-wired aircraft is to afford us more options in the future and it has and will do that job marvelously well, but because the opportunity has arisen doesn't mean this is the time to exercise that option.

a reply to: C0bzz

Thats my line of thinking CObzz but whether the brass are on the same page remains to be seen. Some very good points too, such as the stop gap between F-111 and F-35. It sure doesnt seem to me that 1 or 6 SQN have any intent to convert to F-35s. Perhaps theres a quiet understanding that the RAAF may be lining up for the B-21 or "something else". Absolute wishful thinking on my part but something still doesnt add up for me in our change of Doctrine post F-111. I expect the Supers/Growlers to be around for quite some time to come and alongside the F-35s.

100% agree we will look to purchase an attrition airframe, purely based on how easy it has been for the RAAF to make additional purchases, (extra option C-17s and KC-30s for example) and ultimately a Squadron of 11 Aircraft is not a full Squadron under our requirements, we need that 12th aircraft flying, whether its this repaired bird or a new build will probably be decided quite soon.

a reply to: Ironside800

Not sure about B-21. Expensive jet and many of our neighbors wouldn't be happy with it.

IMHO, put the ability to launch cruise missiles on the Collins Class Replacement submarines. Or better yet, Tomahawk replacement, since Tomahawk isn't stealthy. One can dream. Pity the submarine program is really for jobs and is too slow.

originally posted by: C0bzz
a reply to: Ironside800

Not sure about B-21. Expensive jet and many of our neighbors wouldn't be happy with it.

About as happy as they were when the F-111 was operational i'd bet!


With Rich Uncle Mal splashing $50b on subs, 12 B-21s should be affordable around 2025

Glad everyone was ok, With Australia being all the way down there, they are use to flying upside down that's probably why it crashed!!

Another image, may indeed be fixable Zaph



Oops bit late with that image

a reply to: Ironside800

You're assuming we would sell the B-21, and not just do an exchange program like with the B-2.

Looks like 301 on the tail. The vertical fins suffered extensive damage. It looks like one of them almost melted. If this is going to be repaired, it's going to end up as a FrankenGrowler and will require an aft fuselage replacement.

- Strategic outlook for Australia has worsened since the Super Hornet deal was confirmed towards the end of last decade.

Biggest WTF,s were Sea sprites and Tiger acquisitions.Subs have always been giving the tax payers itches and twitches..Plus cost cutting on the ships we do build that arent what they are hyped up to be.Our defences have always been tied by the testicles to the government policies.We cant even patrol our own waters effectively anymore (Japanese Whaling anyone?)Primarily we are a high tech Coast Guard navy here with our best assets being sent off to do NATO operations.
Growlers were a good fit and I think up against neighboring threats ideal for doing its job.F35,s I think 10 years ago we realised we would have to wait a long time for us to get them matured.B21 is a dream I think.Small Strategic strike aircraft is what we are about and we train hard on it.Carpet bombing we leave to the USA and the B52,s and B1,s..
We Fly Upside down as we need to find pubs quickly as its so hot over here

a reply to: Blackfinger

i,d thought oz had the refreshment problem sorted

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