China's Three Gorges Dam: An Environmental Catastrophe?

www.scientificamerican.com...

China's huge Three Gorges Dam project is producing a host of unintended consequences

For over three decades the Chinese government dismissed warnings from scientists and environmentalists that its Three Gorges Dam—the world's largest—had the potential of becoming one of China's biggest environmental nightmares. But last fall, denial suddenly gave way to reluctant acceptance that the naysayers were right. Chinese officials staged a sudden about-face, acknowledging for the first time that the massive hydroelectric dam, sandwiched between breathtaking cliffs on the Yangtze River in central China, may be triggering landslides, altering entire ecosystems and causing other serious environmental problems—and, by extension, endangering the millions who live in its shadow.

I'm no tree hugger but it really looks as if Beijing didn't do its homework on this one

geological issues (mudslides, flooding) and animal issues (declining species), not to mention the human cost of relocating over a million souls.

US media ignoring this. Chinese government appears to be quietly concerned.

I think you mean "millions" of people are in danger. Read about this a few years ago. Said it was a disaster in the making. When the dam does break, I wonder if the warning system will work.

a reply to: ElGoobero

Any recent news?

The article you linked is 10 years old.

originally posted by: musicismagic
I think you mean "millions" of people are in danger. Read about this a few years ago. Said it was a disaster in the making. When the dam does break, I wonder if the warning system will work.

I'm sure the watching system will work fine ... For those who live many miles away.

originally posted by: stosh64
a reply to: ElGoobero

Any recent news?

The article you linked is 10 years old.

oops, didn't see that

here's one from 2016
www.economist.com...

Considered purely as a means of flood control, the dam is a mixed blessing. The silt-free water that gushes through it fails to replenish embankments downstream, thus weakening them as flood barriers (several have collapsed this year). Below the dam, the water now runs faster; it has scraped away and lowered the Yangzi’s bed by as much as 11 metres, according to Fan Xiao, an independent researcher who has written several reports for Probe International, a Canadian NGO. As a result, nearby wetlands drain into the river, damaging their ability to act as sponges during a flood.

closed society. not surprising there isn't more news about.

originally posted by: incoserv

originally posted by: musicismagic
I think you mean "millions" of people are in danger. Read about this a few years ago. Said it was a disaster in the making. When the dam does break, I wonder if the warning system will work.

I'm sure the watching system will work fine ... For those who live many miles away.

Hmm, why didn't I think of that.

isnt the capacity being reduced yearly aswell as the silt is built up on the backside of the dam and their methods for flushing it just werent working? i remember hearing something like 80 feet of silt had deposited in a couple years. what a waste of concrete that has been and then theres the countless people it impacted who had their lives thrown into chaos for its construction

Here is a great thread that was done by Questioningall back in 2009.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Chinese failed to account for environmental impact? I'm blown away!

See?

:|


They put coal-burning power plants in the middle of their most dense cities, ffs.

I was all over that country in 2014 for a month and I think I saw blue sky for a few hours ONE DAY.

Is the Chinese government suddenly concerned about the environment? I guess dense smoke filled cities must have gotten some concern. I did read they were spending a lot on solar. Maybe they can turn Tesla's idea of wireless power into reality and just have all cars and factories in the cities run from wireless power and clean up the air. That would make electric cars more popular if they didn't need batteries. You could also shut down all the coal power plants if you had enough wireless power and save millions or billions on the grid. Everyone could have a meter box to pay for power used for big power consumption. Devices like laptops and tablets, phones, etc, get free power via regular city taxes after devices are made to tap into wireless public power. No more recharging necessary. If the US set up such a system, electric cars could be driven all over the place without worrying about recharging batteries.

I don't know if Tesla ever finished his plans for wireless power or if they worked. If such an idea works, I think China would want to implement it faster than the US since corporations in the US would want everyone to pay for every last cent of power used.

Probably too late now to redesign the dam to release tons of silt on occasion. Some Chinese officials probably just look at the overall power produced and don't worry about the environment. I suspect as China becomes wealthier, more are concerned about the environment. Well I just gave away a plan to clean up their country if they can get Tesla's idea to work. I would modify it though so that major power consumption is transmitted or received via meter boxes so that power consumption pays for the power sources. Free power doesn't work as good when someone has to pay for power sources and maintenance.

If China has no concern about the environment, then they will likely say a few million people is just a tiny percent of the population affected by the dam.

Isn't this dam supposed to have changed the rotation of the earth? I think it supposedly shortened our days by 0.06 ms or something.. Has this been disproven?

The dam will give way.
Too much silt in its path.
A big challenge that was told that don't do it.
As my friend who lives upstream said, "life here will change in the direction of false facts".
Poor friends of mine that rely on the river of life and drinking water.

a reply to: ElGoobero

interesting, thanks for the post

Hopefully they can fix their dam problem. Pun intended?
I was wondering how much it might cost to have silt spillways to offload a certain percentage of silt each year. Probably a lot since the dam has already been built. If they really want wireless power, conventional plans for wireless power in parking places and or roads for cars might work but the cars need batteries unless someone invents laser energy transfer or something similar to transfer power via laser or microwaves. We could have flying cars with power beamed to the vehicles. The bulk of the vehicle mass could be vastly reduced without a need for an engine, tires, safety frame etc. Highway flying safety could be automated. No need for roads for this system.

Maybe just simple drone tech if they only need to support weight of people and cargo. Power could be beamed to each vehicle. With enough speed, air can help support weight. I think we already have the tech to build such a system but no one may have thought about it together. A microwave power air transport highway system. No roads needed except to service microwave towers. We could be building highways in the sky already as an infrastructure improvement. As far as how to fix the dam problem, fluid engineers and dam engineers may be able to think of a solution but it might cost more than anyone wants.

As far as my suggestion to use Tesla's idea for wireless power, forget that. I read about it. Tesla wanted to charge up the entire Earth's ionosphere. The power losses would have been tremendous. Also anyone on the planet could mount up an antenna and draw power. That's not a workable business model.

originally posted by: orionthehunter
As far as my suggestion to use Tesla's idea for wireless power, forget that. I read about it. Tesla wanted to charge up the entire Earth's ionosphere. The power losses would have been tremendous. Also anyone on the planet could mount up an antenna and draw power. That's not a workable business model.

Thanks for correcting yourself on that, I'm impressed!

Actually all wireless power is inefficient and would only worsen the problem, not just Tesla's. Wired power has losses of about 7% in the transmission lines. With wireless the losses vary depending on the wireless system but say 50% losses in wireless would not be unusual. That's 7 times more losses than a wired system so you'd make the pollution problem much worse having to burn a lot of extra coal to make up for the additional losses with wireless.

I doubt there are any simple solutions for the dam, but operating enough coal plants to replace the power it generates would create plenty of environmental damage too.

US media ignoring this. Chinese government appears to be quietly concerned.

No,

The US media has not ignored this, you just havent been paying attention.

There has been 20 years worth of coverge of bad engineering, rampant corruption, heavy handed government relocation of tens millions of people, the destruction of dozens of culturally important sites.
The loss of farmland has been covered as has loss of downstream flow.
It was American hydrologists and engineers that first raised the alarms on the consequences of building the dam.
I even remember watching an interview on an msm networks prime time news, with an old displaced communist talking about how things like corruption associated with the construction could and will inevitabley lead to the 2nd Chinese revolution.
Why should the American media concern itself with it anyhow, its China's problem, and there are no "unintended consequences". The Chinese were amplley warned by outside experts, but hey, its COMMUNIST CHINA, why would anybody expect them to listen.

a reply to: ElGoobero

This is the time to be grownups and accept reality. Of course there are major problems with it---but it also displaces # loads of coal plants which are worse.

We are in the era where we need to grow the # up. We are in the era of Sophie's Choice, of triage, not of wishful thinking.

We need to accept many lousy things, like damaging dams and fission nuclear plants, and their accidents, in order to avoid civilization threatening climate catastrophe and cancerous air pollution.

It's bad vs collapse.

originally posted by: orionthehunter
Is the Chinese government suddenly concerned about the environment? I guess dense smoke filled cities must have gotten some concern. I did read they were spending a lot on solar.

Yes, they have flipped very significantly, at least the central government. The Chinese change in attitude, along with their one-child-policy are the most significant environmental moves on the planet. They have a huge grid of electric-powered fast rail in a country nearly the size of USA and substantially less wealthy.

It's shocking and depressing, but today, the quasi-Communist dictators are taking of their citizenry (what is the median real wage increase in China, vs USA in the last 30 years?) and the planet more than the oldest continuous democratic republic.