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January 27 is International Holocaust Remembrance Day

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posted on Jan, 27 2018 @ 03:15 PM
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originally posted by: MteWamp

Oh, that's not the issue. The issue is that it's completely unrelated to the topic of the thread.


Unrelated ?

I thought this was the topic,

January 27 is International Holocaust Remembrance Day

Is it legit to ask why are we remembering the "Holocaust" ?

Is it because it was good, that 6 million Jewish souls were taken up to heaven ?

Or,

Is it because it was bad, that 6 million Jewish souls had to give up their earthly body, and all earthly posessions, to go there?

What does the Holocaust really mean?




posted on Jan, 27 2018 @ 03:26 PM
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Might I suggest we use this day to remember not only the Holocaust victins, however many there were, but also ALL the other victims of WW2?

Everyone who lost their lives in that tragedy deserve compassion.

Even Nazi's.



posted on Jan, 27 2018 @ 03:46 PM
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originally posted by: Tempter
Might I suggest we use this day to remember not only the Holocaust victins, however many there were, but also ALL the other victims of WW2?

Everyone who lost their lives in that tragedy deserve compassion.

Even Nazi's.


It's hard to dig deep and have any compassion for nazis. Compassion for German soldiers in the Great War is easy. They conducted themselves in the same way as everyone else. The Germans who dissented against the nazis are also easy to empathise with - they stood for common values.

When you say "Even Nazis," my mind starts working on categories and definitions. A nazi was someone who supported anti-Semitism and Lebensraum. Hitler was a nazi, right? Goebbels too. Gestapo. Brown Shirts.

It's hard to muster any compassion for people who followed the nazi ideal.



posted on Jan, 27 2018 @ 04:31 PM
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originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: MteWamp

Oh, that's not the issue. The issue is that it's completely unrelated to the topic of the thread.


Unrelated ?

I thought this was the topic,

January 27 is International Holocaust Remembrance Day

Is it legit to ask why are we remembering the "Holocaust" ?

Is it because it was good, that 6 million Jewish souls were taken up to heaven ?

Or,

Is it because it was bad, that 6 million Jewish souls had to give up their earthly body, and all earthly posessions, to go there?

What does the Holocaust really mean?



We remember the six million Jewish people and the countless other millions of victims who were murdered by Hitler and his insane collection of criminals that are better known as the higher echelons of the Nazi Party. It I have to point out that that number of murders and victims is 'bad' then you need to reassess your values. There was nothing good about it.



posted on Jan, 27 2018 @ 04:46 PM
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originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: nwtrucker

I didn't know Neo Nazi's were left wingers. Oh wait, reality check, they aren't. They are big time Trump supporters.

As far as Israel is concerned, I don't see the Left saying Israel shouldn't exist, instead the Left is against Israel's Right wing gov't and policies. Big difference there.



You didn't know?? I guess the Germans 'didn't know either. What part of National Socialism escapes? Union thugs, anti-religion, attacking a segment of their population, in that case Jews. Now it's Christians.

That ok. You didn't know.



posted on Jan, 27 2018 @ 05:04 PM
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How about ethnic cleansing happening today?



posted on Jan, 27 2018 @ 05:48 PM
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originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

We remember the six million Jewish people and the countless other millions of victims who were murdered by Hitler and his insane collection of criminals that are better known as the higher echelons of the Nazi Party. It I have to point out that that number of murders and victims is 'bad' then you need to reassess your values. There was nothing good about it.



I understand that point of view too.

It's an easy view to accept, when you believe there's no god, and the Jews are not his chosen people.

The only thing that puzzles me, is if we accept there's a God, and if we believe that the Jews are indeed his chosen people, then how on earth is it that this almighty God couldn't not protect his chosen people from a "madman" like Hitler?

It's the religious logic that has me stumped.

I can't accept a Good God allowing Bad Things to happen to his people, unless those things weren't really bad, just appear bad to those who don't believe in HIM. Then, it all makes sense.

You believe that the Holocaust was bad, because you don't believe there's a God, and man is determining his own fate.

Or, you believe that the Holocaust was good, because you do believe there's a God, and you realise that God doesn't let the "unbelivers" see the truth, it's kept hidden from them, because they are not worthy to know what really happened in the Holocaust.



posted on Jan, 27 2018 @ 05:53 PM
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originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: MteWamp

Oh, that's not the issue. The issue is that it's completely unrelated to the topic of the thread.


Unrelated ?

I thought this was the topic,

January 27 is International Holocaust Remembrance Day

Is it legit to ask why are we remembering the "Holocaust" ?

Is it because it was good, that 6 million Jewish souls were taken up to heaven ?

Or,

Is it because it was bad, that 6 million Jewish souls had to give up their earthly body, and all earthly posessions, to go there?

What does the Holocaust really mean?



The holocaust in this context means the mass murder of Jews under the Nazi regime during WW2. More than 6 million European Jews and other persecuted groups, were murdered in concentration camps.

We remember because it shows that a civilised modern nation can commit genocide, even in modern times.

It has nothing to do with Jews going to some mythical heaven.



posted on Jan, 27 2018 @ 05:55 PM
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is it remembrance day for the tens of millions of other people who died under communist regimes during the same time period as well?



posted on Jan, 27 2018 @ 06:02 PM
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originally posted by: cuckooold

It has nothing to do with Jews going to some mythical heaven.


But, the Jews were practicing a religion, called Judaism, that made them "identify" as Jews, and is the entire reason that they became the target, hence the Holocaust.

And in the same religion of Judaism, the Rabbi's claim that they expect a Messiah would one day come and take

600,000

Jews up out of the land of Egypt (which is Earth), saving them from the miseries of earthly life.

Funny enough, the Holocaust resulted in

6,000,000

Jews being taken up. The same "mystical" figure "6", but just off by a factor of 10.

This is all strange and puzzling.

It doesn't seem as if you can really just "divorce" the religious ideas from the events of the Holocaust.

The number of Jews taken are just too conveniently similar to the numbers that would be taken by the Messiah.



posted on Jan, 27 2018 @ 06:03 PM
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a reply to: Kandinsky

Any pro-Hitler posts will be removed on sight


So should pro Nazi and neo-Nazi bull#, for the record, even though much of it has learned to be cleverly couched.



posted on Jan, 27 2018 @ 06:06 PM
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originally posted by: fatadam
How about ethnic cleansing happening today?


What about it?


(post by Rikku removed for a serious terms and conditions violation)

posted on Jan, 27 2018 @ 06:58 PM
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originally posted by: AMPTAH
But, the Jews were practicing a religion, called Judaism, that made them "identify" as Jews, and is the entire reason that they became the target, hence the Holocaust.

In fact, Jews were not persecuted because of their religion, they were considered "racially inferior" (the same thing applied to Russians and Roma people, for example) and, most of all, were considered as responsible for Germany's loss in WW I. Pointing Jews and Communists as prime culprits for the loss allowed Nazis to gather support among the common (uninformed) people, with promises that getting rid of them would make Germany great again.

As Germany was living in an extremely bad economical situation, most people accepted the preconceived idea that the rich Jews were responsible for all their problems, so the Nazi party got most people's support and started to "solve the problem".

The problem for the Nazis was not religions themselves, it was the fact that religion could make people less subjected to the state, and that's why they were persecuted.



posted on Jan, 27 2018 @ 07:01 PM
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originally posted by: Kandinsky

originally posted by: Tempter
Might I suggest we use this day to remember not only the Holocaust victins, however many there were, but also ALL the other victims of WW2?

Everyone who lost their lives in that tragedy deserve compassion.

Even Nazi's.


It's hard to dig deep and have any compassion for nazis. Compassion for German soldiers in the Great War is easy. They conducted themselves in the same way as everyone else. The Germans who dissented against the nazis are also easy to empathise with - they stood for common values.

When you say "Even Nazis," my mind starts working on categories and definitions. A nazi was someone who supported anti-Semitism and Lebensraum. Hitler was a nazi, right? Goebbels too. Gestapo. Brown Shirts.

It's hard to muster any compassion for people who followed the nazi ideal.


To be fair to the average German soldier, most fought and grudgely supported Hitler simply because they where terrified of the USSR and what would happen if Stalin took advantage of a weak Germany. They where told how the red army would rape Germany and purge the German people......... and that was one piece of propaganda from Goerbles that was true.
edit on 27-1-2018 by Theprodicalson because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2018 @ 07:07 PM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: nwtrucker

I didn't know Neo Nazi's were left wingers. Oh wait, reality check, they aren't. They are big time Trump supporters.

As far as Israel is concerned, I don't see the Left saying Israel shouldn't exist, instead the Left is against Israel's Right wing gov't and policies. Big difference there.



You didn't know?? I guess the Germans 'didn't know either. What part of National Socialism escapes? Union thugs, anti-religion, attacking a segment of their population, in that case Jews. Now it's Christians.

That ok. You didn't know.


Not quiet true.

Initially the Nazi Part was socialist. Eventually two wings emerged, you had the socialist section that comprised the SA under Rohm and then the right wing section that was pro free market under Hitler. Hitler's group basically used the socialist Nazis as a platform to garner support for the "working man" which they would not have been able to do otherwise. Soon as Hitler got to power he ditched any socialist ideals and turned on Rohm and the SA resulting in the night of the long knives.



posted on Jan, 27 2018 @ 07:18 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 27 2018 @ 07:33 PM
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originally posted by: Kandinsky
[It's hard to dig deep and have any compassion for nazis. Compassion for German soldiers in the Great War is easy. They conducted themselves in the same way as everyone else. The Germans who dissented against the nazis are also easy to empathise with - they stood for common values.

When you say "Even Nazis," my mind starts working on categories and definitions. A nazi was someone who supported anti-Semitism and Lebensraum. Hitler was a nazi, right? Goebbels too. Gestapo. Brown Shirts.

Portugal had a similar situation, people were (de facto) forced to be part of government organizations, if they weren't part of the organizations like their neighbours people would find it "strange" and would point them to the political police, so I'm sure many Nazis were only Nazis because that's what they need to be, otherwise their family's life would be more difficult.



posted on Jan, 27 2018 @ 07:35 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 27 2018 @ 07:43 PM
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a reply to: Tempter


Ihr trugt die Schande nicht.

Ihr wehrtet euch.

Ihr gabt das große ewig wache Zeichen der Umkehr,

opfernd Euer heißes Leben für Freiheit, Recht, und Ehre.





You did not bear the shame.

You resisted.

You bestowed the eternally vigilant symbol of change

by sacrificing your impassioned lives for freedom, justice and honor.




The German Resistance Memorial Center (German: Gedenkstätte Deutscher Widerstand) is a memorial and museum in Berlin, capital of Germany. It was opened in 1980 in part of the Bendlerblock, a complex of offices in Stauffenbergstrasse (formerly Bendlerstrasse), south of the Großer Tiergarten in Tiergarten. It was here that Colonel Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg and other members of the failed 20 July plot that attempted to assassinate Adolf Hitler were executed.

Although the memorial is primarily intended to commemorate those members of the German Army who tried to assassinate Hitler in 1944, it is also a memorial to the German resistance in the broader sense. Historians agree that there was no united, national resistance movement in Nazi Germany at any time during Hitler's years in power (1933–45). Joachim Fest describes it as "the resistance that never was."Nevertheless, the term German Resistance (Deutscher Widerstand) is now used to describe all elements of opposition and resistance to the Nazi Regime, including the underground networks of the Social Democrats and Communists, The White Rose, opposition activities in the Christian churches (e.g. the Confessing Church), and the resistance groups based in the civil service, intelligence organs and armed forces.



There were a lot of Germans, in the resistance, the German army, the Nazi government and even in the SS, who resisted what was going on in their own way.

Dr. Friedrich Wilhelm Kritzinger, state secretary in the Reich Chancellery during the period of Nazi Germany and he was the deputy head of the Reich Chancellery. He was also 1 of the 15 people present at the Wanssee conference where the final solution was put into place. After that meeting he tried on several occasions to resign his position to leave the Nazi government and each time he was refused. He was told by others his resignation would cause more harm to the overall situation. Apparently Kritzinger was a favorite of Adolph Hitler's, which actually shielded him from the SS when he resisted the steps taken at the conference and in the following years.

At the end of the war he did not try to flee or escape justice. He was arrested and brought to trial. He testified to his experiences and actions and apologized for them. He denounced the Nazi regime and what it stood for.


During the Nuremberg Trials, where he was a witness, he publicly declared himself ashamed of the atrocities committed by the Nazi regime. He was released, and died in Nuremberg the following year.


While I tend to agree with Kadinsky on it being difficult to muster compassion for people who followed the Nazi ideal there are some who do deserve compassion. I try to put myself in their place and think out what they went through during that time frame and try to understand how the situation affected their actions to stand against the Nazi's. I try to understand that in Nazi Germany if you commit an offense against the Nazis chances were you werent the only person punished for your actions. Punishment would extend to your family as well.

Those who resisted the Nazis are heroes in their own right, overshadowed by the crimes the Nazi's committed and by extension obscured in the annals of history.



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