originally posted by: BEBOG
a reply to: philosopheroftruth
Well, the "three worlds" are essentially Body, Speech and Mind... Dhammakaya is the realm of speech when spoken, Shambogakaya is the realm of body,
Nirmanakaya is the realm of mind. That is the Buddha "body" Two are void while the third is active. The two voids and third shift between and
interchangeable... when speech and mind is void; body is present and subject to the world dhamma so that kamma works itself out. The other two operate
in a similar manner...
That's an interesting way if interpreting that Buddhist tool! I've been probing this entire conversation to try and get information out of you, so
thank you! I still can't see being able to talk without using concepts (mind) or body though... I have a different model of this specific tool, and
I'll share it with you (since talking with you has given me a few new insights here):
There are 2 main "bodies" in my model - Subjective Body and Objective Body. The Objective Body is the body made out of matter, and the Subjective Body
is made out of mind. You can only perceive the Body you render inside your mind (even in waking life) - this Subjective Body is the same one you
see/use in dreams and OOBEs. The Wisdom Body is just a way to explain that you Ultimately have no body, because "body" is a conceptual designation (as
is "self"). Your Subjective Body has Subjective Senses, but these are just Composite Symbols that are created from the Objective sensory input. That's
my tool - yours is cool too!
I was having difficulty communicating with you, so I figured I would pose a few questions to you in order to get a better perspective of your model.
It seems like I was right originally - your goal is only to achieve your own personal liberation (correct me if I'm wrong). This is a great goal! I
just don't see the point in discussing this further with you - this thread uses concepts, and using concepts is the opposite of your goal (spotless
mirror). It's not my goal to pull you down into a less desirable state...
In Rinzai it would be said that "you" created the world of hypodermics children running around etc. as they did not exist anywhere in this
thread until you created them... so now having created them in this "world" they are now my problem...
I did create (and render) the child scenario in my mind, but it's not a problem for me (I realize that it's just a simulation) - you also have the
choice to not render the child in your mind. Also, sorry for probing you - it was honestly the only way I could see to further our conversation.
Conceptualizing is fun, but it's also important in understanding how we will react in situations requiring action.
Do you understand this? This is why not attachment and grasping... is to be practiced to perfection. Otherwise hey no hypodermics, children
running about, dead buddhas nor their mind in your mind. A clean slate or spotless mirror...
I do understand your model, and it's classic Buddhism! You do still need concepts to do things though. The mirror is only spotless until you start
brushing your teeth - you might not mind having bad breath, but it can cause suffering for those around you (if you choose to be around people).
I love what you are saying, and I got some great insights during our discussion - I also found some holes in my model (I had some wrong terms here and
there). This thread has been a great way for me to develop my model of mind, and my model of mind is a great tool to understand people better
(including myself). I believe that by understanding how the mind works, a person can find better paths through life without needing to rely on hearsay
- similar to how understanding a good model of electricity can protect you from getting shocked. I'll break down this tool for you, just so that we
can both understand one another better:
Every person has a View, but this is usually hidden behind the scenes. A person's View (in my model) could be understood as the relationships and
meanings attached to their "Composite Symbols" (CS) - basically all of their conceptual designations. So, for example, the Pharmaceutical Industry CS
has greed as one meaning in your own View -
favorite color and fear of spiders would be other examples of this designating. This View determines how you will respond to these CSs as you
encounter them, and also determines the problems to be solved in relation to other CSs. A mind's View is determined by how a person reacts to the
different CSs in their "Thought Containers", and this View creates habits over time. CSs are made out of Pattern Seekers (PS) in your mind that
process sensory inputs and turn them into CSs. The Madiyamika View (in my model) is a View where all your CSs are neutral and understood as being
simulations created by your mind (all CS are empty of inherent existence).
In my model, these "problems" (like the child scenario) are called "Thought Containers" (TC). These can be conceptualized as being similar to the
applications that run on your computer. These TCs handle all conscious thought, and can be visualized of as virtual spaces for solving problems - each
TC is created based on a goal (Fruit), and they are solved when a path to that goal is found. These TCs require more or less energy to render
(depending on Composite Objects in them), and the energy needs determine how subtle or gross these TCs are.
Having many TCs open at the same time causes fragmentation - your total available mental energy is being split between many different rendered CSs
(including other Minds). This causes suffering (and "Becoming"), because your energy is being used up on useless simulations. If you leave a TC open,
the simulated minds (your "past lives") continue to work on the goal, even if you are unaware of it. Some of these TCs are as transient as achieving
the goal of having clean teeth, while others can stay open for years (like the goals of buying a house or becoming a Bodhisattva, for example). The
energy distribution to the TCs is automatically controlled, up until you start developing concentration.
Meditation trains your mind to concentrate, and this concentration allows you to (eventually):
-Focus 100% of your available energy on one TC for as long as you want.
-Easily switch between different TCs.
-Close any TC you choose, whenever you choose.
-Choose the specific CSs rendered in a TC.
-Run multiple TCs in parallel.
It was great talking with you! Hopefully that made sense and helps someone out there who could use a new tool. The tool is constantly changing as I
get new info from other people, so it's fun for me to hear different models!
edit on 2/21/2018 by philosopheroftruth because: (no reason
edit on 2/21/2018 by philosopheroftruth because: (no reason given)
edit on 2/21/2018 by philosopheroftruth
because: (no reason given)